Looking for advice on limitation of growing Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild


Pathfinder Adventure Card Society

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

So I have one big limitation on growing our local Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild to a certain point, The price of the Core box and all add-ons that come after.

Currently I have dedicated myself to Owning 2 Boxes and 2 of all the add-ons, that limits me to the max of 12 players.

I have spoke to the initial players about this limitation but I have gotten the general idea that all my players will just be sticking to buying the class decks and not investing further into the game.

Any advice from anyone dealing with the same?

Before anyone mentions it, adding another game day for different players is not an option.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Charge $1 to play. Collect the money to buy more boxes.

Also, actively search for players who *will* invest in the game (I find it weird that none of your players will, actually - I'd think they'd want to be able to play casual games with their friends, and the fact that they aren't makes me worry about what kind of personalities these guys are).

Finally: what is your local store's involvement? Are they unwilling to invest in this, as well? If so, find another store and stop giving this one your money until they learn how powerful a tool having someone as dedicated as you are is to their game sales.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

Drogon wrote:

Charge $1 to play. Collect the money to buy more boxes.

Also, actively search for players who *will* invest in the game (I find it weird that none of your players will, actually - I'd think they'd want to be able to play casual games with their friends, and the fact that they aren't makes me worry about what kind of personalities these guys are).

Finally: what is your local store's involvement? Are they unwilling to invest in this, as well? If so, find another store and stop giving this one your money until they learn how powerful a tool having someone as dedicated as you are is to their game sales.

Thanks for the Reply Drogon.

On your first point, On general principle I try to avoid charging for game play. That is not a local custom in any of our stores and I don't want to be the one that starts it.

I am going to be trying to do your second post. The issue mostly is not they are not willing to buy the product the issue is that the majority of our players can't afford to buy the product. There are currently only a very limited of us that could. Those limited ones that could currently do not have the interest to play but I am trying to change their mind.

Beyond giving us space there is no local store involvement, and that is the same for all the local stores so moving is not an option. We currently play were there is the most traffic of gamers.

Edit: One of the things I am hoping to get out of this is for the Store to carry more of the PACG. Currently they only carry 1 of all the releases and 2 of the main box. I am trying to get the players to order the Class decks through the store since there is not really a significant bonus in buying through Paizo. If this happens I am hoping to convince the store for some more support. Currently I buy my second copy of everything through the store but that means I clean out the shelf of what they have.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

You need to come to Denver and see how game stores are supposed to be run, Dragnmoon. I can't fathom how other stores survive, in this world with the internet, Yelp!, Kickstarter, Wil Wheaton, and all the rest of what goes into gaming these days.

It may be hard to be the first (whether to charge or to insist on better player involvement) but someone has to do it. And it works; I promise. If you ever want to talk to me about how to implement all the things I do you should give me a call.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

Drogon wrote:
You need to come to Denver and see how game stores are supposed to be run, Dragnmoon.

I am working on it. Trying to convince the Air Force they want to give me orders to there.


Have you contacted your area venture leadership? The PACG VL gets 2 sets to promote play

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

Chris O'Reilly wrote:
Have you contacted your area venture leadership? The PACG VL gets 2 sets to promote play

We don't have any local VOs.


I thought it was mentioned somewhere that stores registering their involvement in PACG OP would get reduced-cost base/expansion sets (something in the order of "just pay shipping").

Heck, even if they did have to crack open one of their own boxes (their cost: wholesale), if you have in excess of 12 people interested in playing in your area, surely they can be convinced to invest in capturing this player base.

If not, maybe you can negotiate a significant discount for yourself in exchange for bringing potential players into the store; even if they sold it to you at wholesale, if 1 person buys 1 thing from them, they come out ahead (dollar-wise anyhow; I'm not trying to start a principles of economics debate here).

If this is still too costly for them, I second the "go elsewhere" approach, both in terms of playing and buying.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

Flat the Impaler wrote:

I thought it was mentioned somewhere that stores registering their involvement in PACG OP would get reduced-cost base/expansion sets (something in the order of "just pay shipping").

Heck, even if they did have to crack open one of their own boxes (their cost: wholesale), if you have in excess of 12 people interested in playing in your area, surely they can be convinced to invest in capturing this player base.

If not, maybe you can negotiate a significant discount for yourself in exchange for bringing potential players into the store; even if they sold it to you at wholesale, if 1 person buys 1 thing from them, they come out ahead (dollar-wise anyhow; I'm not trying to start a principles of economics debate here).

If this is still too costly for them, I second the "go elsewhere" approach, both in terms of playing and buying.

Thanks for the reply Flat the Impaler.

If your first point is true, that might be something I may be able to work with.

A Discount is not an option, have tried it in the past and it was a no go.

Going to another store to play would be the same experience.

Local "Gaming" stores offering discounts or support outside of Magic the Gathering is not a thing that happens down here.


Dragnmoon wrote:
Local "Gaming" stores offering discounts or support outside of Magic the Gathering is not a thing that happens down here.

In that case I recommend moving. ;)

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

Flat the Impaler wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Local "Gaming" stores offering discounts or support outside of Magic the Gathering is not a thing that happens down here.
In that case I recommend moving. ;)

Working on it... ;) But unlikely to happen.


Dragnmoon wrote:

A Discount is not an option, have tried it in the past and it was a no go.

Going to another store to play would be the same experience.

Another, slightly harsher, suggestion would be to just start turning people away. If the store sees people are interested, but are not able to participate because of (your) lack of supplies, they might (just maybe) be more willing to consider a discount.

If watching would-be customers walk away empty-handed doesn't change their mind, then I don't know what would.


Perhaps another thought that may save a bit of funds on your part would be to have a long play day. You can run multiple max-number parties out of the same box, but it requires bookkeeping and prep time on your part.

You'd have to deal with with dismantling and rebuilding decks along with removing any cards from the box that have been removed from the game then putting them back in and removing others for the next group (after Adv 3 starts).

It is possible, though. The character tracker sheets available here on Paizo are good for the deck systems and any piece of paper can be used to keep track of what cards have been removed from the game.

I don't know if it would help you grow your local PACG community, but it'd allow you to have more players playing, and players playing and liking leads to more purchases.

You should also note for the people saying they're just investing in the class decks that the class decks cannot be played alone. A base set is necessary as are the adventure decks for that base set. Otherwise, the class decks are just a nifty collection of text and artwork.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

One idea I was thinking of was to run scenarios multiple times during the same day but because replay is allowed there is a good chance I will have a good amount of players just stick around for all the games.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

Just make it known that if a player is replaying a scenario then they'll be seated last. Fresh players get first priority.

Silver Crusade Venture-Lieutenant, Missouri—Kansas City

That's not a bad idea Eric. I think I'll steal that rule for my area. I know at first that there's only a handful of scenarios, but as the seasons continue, I don't see that as being that big of a deal, much like PFS. (Even though PFS will only let you replay if you burn a GM star or making sure there's enough players for the table to make.)

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Just make it known that if a player is replaying a scenario then they'll be seated last. Fresh players get first priority.

That may work, I do something similar with PFS when I am short on GMs.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Firedale2002 wrote:

You'd have to deal with with dismantling and rebuilding decks along with removing any cards from the box that have been removed from the game then putting them back in and removing others for the next group (after Adv 3 starts).

It is possible, though. The character tracker sheets available here on Paizo are good for the deck systems and any piece of paper can be used to keep track of what cards have been removed from the game.

Note that in OP you don't have to keep track of which cards have been removed, since you remove all of the cards with the Basic and Elite traits by deck number. And there are rules for doing it on the fly.

1/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Just make it known that if a player is replaying a scenario then they'll be seated last. Fresh players get first priority.

Just something to think about; you may want to distinguish between "players replaying a scenario they have already succeeded" and "players replaying a scenario because they've failed it the first time". In fact, I don't think the second case is considered a replay on the Chronicle sheet, necessarily.


If you dont have area venture officers contact mike brock directly. From his posts I get the idea they are almost desperate for acg vls. It might not get you stuff in time but it would help for the future

The Exchange

We have a game store that rents us a space to play PFS twice a month. It is a nice large private room (actually a whole floor) where we are able to fit in 5 or so tables and game uninterrupted by Magic and other happenings in the store.

Out local VL took to starting a collection cup, and from what I can tell, a good percentage of people have been more than happy to throw in the suggested $5.00 donation to offset his rental of the room ($50.00 per night).

I might look in to doing a similar model for getting access to another base set for your area. As your group grows, have a donation cup set up either in your gaming space, or see if the shop you play at will let you put it up at the counter. I would advertise this verbally at the start and end of your events, and tell people that in order to grow the group and be able to seat everyone that is interested, the purchase of another base set will eventually be required.

I would angle with the shop to let your group pay wholesale price for the base set by handing over the donations week by week until the cost has been reached, but have the set live at the shop so that in case something comes up for you and you can't make a game night, a group could still form and run by checking the set out at the counter. The shop won't want to deal with players who come in expecting a game night getting frustrated and not coming back.

I hope that you would find that after just a few weeks of people throwing in 5 dollars each game night that you would have the resources that you need to get a second table going, and then a third. By showing the shop owners that the players are buying class decks regularly, and working towards growing the hobby at their location, you should be able to convince them to more strongly support your endeavor.

Good luck though, sounds like you have an uphill climb ahead.


I can't find the thread, but retail stores running the game are supposed to be able to get 1 free copy of the game.

*eta: found the link: Press Release!

Venture-Lieutenant, Online—ACG aka Hawkmoon269

PezKat wrote:
I can't find the thread, but retail stores running the game are supposed to be able to get 1 free copy of the game.

It is mentioned in this news announcement.

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