just my notes while reading this I wanted to share.
Divest your opinion of individual abilities from that of an archetype. Remember this archetype is banned in pfs and will likely be banned at some tables as well. If it skews your opinion that much on otherwise good abilities you should probably shove it in its own corner and allow it to stand on its own merits. So reserve your praise there. Saves on words.
Make your formatting better. Whitespace is not a crime. You have huge blocks of text.
Separate them out and use bold letters to split up sections and make things easier to part and digest.
Thoughts on the future:
Forget the primalist exists. Too much of you opinions are "This would eb great but primalist." That doesn't help the pfs crowd or the crowd that isn't going to take the primalist for one reason or another.
Try to find something unique for them to do if you can. Right now I don't see anything that differs them from barbarians other than the spells bit. Try to find a build or niche they can fit much better.
I don't like that the bloodline powers all have text like "is terrible compared to rage power X". Even if Primalist exists, they should be weighed on their own strength or weakness.
Nice guide, but I agree with TarkXT and Glutton: it's doesn't make much sense that something is bad because there is something better. If that where the case, summoner guides would have a blue rating in Master Summoner and Synthesist, and an orange in everything else.
Also, I noticed something: for the Abyssal bloodline, you give an orange/green rating for Claws, while in the Draconic you give claws a green rating. I figured that you choose so because Abyssal is forced to take the all-resisted flaming property at level 12, while Draconic can choose based on the type of dragon. Even if don't agree that that's the case, you should point it out in the guide.
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You know, taking feats like raging brutality and combining it with blooded arcane strike make for a particularly brutal bloodrager. That combined with the bonuses from abyssal bloodlines make the bloodrager one of the most potentially dangerous classes in the game.
not to mention bloodragers can make vital strike a very nice option (a 2H fighter 3 / bloodrager 17 craps damage and has strength for days--especially with eldritch heritage (orc or abyssal)'s inherent bonus on top)
dot for later
Cause you can get both.
Plus Riving strike is very useful in a group set up.
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Nice guide! Just going to put this in if/when a feats/magic items section gets put in.
Quickdraw might be a good pick for non-primalists, in the late game with a lesser Quicken metamagic rod. Why? Well, walk around the dungeon with the rod out instead of your primary weapon(have a Cestus or grow claws as a secondary, just in case), and then you can swift-action cast Force Hook Charge, doing level in damage to the target, and the free-action draw whatever your normal weapon while dropping your rod is and full attack. Not the most efficient pounce method, and slightly flawed, but for non-Beast Totem Primalists, it works.
Well, Riving Strike looks nice. But I really don't know where I'm going to get the feat slots to do it with.
How many feats does a Bloodrager really need? I can see Power Attack being needed, as it keeps damage up, but beyond that? You don't need more than Iron Will in terms of save boosters(a common Bloodline Feat). You don't need Furious Focus(Its a good bonus, but only to the attack most likely to hit). You don't need Extra Rage Power(well, you can't take it anyway). You don't need Improved Sunder(unless you are a Spell Sundering Primalist). You might need Combat Reflexes if you are Abberant or Abyssal(or just like Reach Weapons), but it shouldn't be too hard to find room for a feat or three that adds a solid damage bonus and debuff with no action cost.
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Okay, the EH bit isn't relevant in the PFS level range I see.
As to why I say I lack feats? I'm playing a Demonspawn Tiefling Abyssal Rageshaper;
1) Armor of the Pit
3) Power Attack
5) Combat Reflexes
I suppose I could take it at level 7 or so, maybe by that time it'll be worth it and there won't be anything else more pressing. And Riving is nice.
I think you underestimate the power of the Abyssal Rageshaper's reach. I've played four scenarios so far with someone who already had it and it dominated every encounter. Either using a polearm or claws, or switching between them as the situation required, no enemy could move without taking a hit.
Also, the size has proven useful quite a few times, to intimidate, block access, or even to help lift people up to where they need to be in a time-crunch situation.
I'm not saying it's the best ever bloodline, but it's really quite good in practice even if it seems only so-so in theory.
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Are there gonna be sample builds?
I am playing around with a Steelblooded Primalist with Sky high saves, AC, 2 handed charger/tripper.
Str 16 (2 stat bumps here)
Dex 12
Con 14 (2 stat bumps here)
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 13 (1st stat bump here)
Traits- Fates Favored, Community Minded
1-Destined Bloodline, Bloodline Power-Destined Strike, Bloodrage,Indomitable StancePower Attack, H-Skill Focus: Perception
2-Armored Swiftness
3-Blood SanctuaryCombat Expertise
4-Blood Casting, Bloodline Power-Fated BloodRager +1, Eschew Materials
5-Armor Training +1Improved Trip
6-Bloodline Feat-Intimidating Prowess
7-Bloodline Spell (Shield), Blood Deflection, Combat Reflexes
8-Fated BloodRager +2, Bloodline Power-Lesser Beast Totem, Reckless Abandon, Skill Focus: Survival
9-Armor Training +2, Bloodline Feat-Weapon Focus (Nodachi) , Eldritch Heritage- Touch of Rage
10-Bloodline Spell (Blur)
11-Greater Bloodrage, Quicken SLA (Touch of Rage)
12-Fated BloodRager +3, Bloodline Feat- Improved Initiative, Bloodline Power-Beast Totem, Greater Beast Totem
13-Bloodline Spell (Protection from Energy), Armor Training +3, Dazing Assault
14-Indomitable Will
15-Bloodline Feat- Leadership, Improved Eldritch Heritage-Strength of the Beast (+4 Inherent to Strength)
16-Fated BloodRager +4, Bloodline Spell (Freedom of Movt), Bloodline Power-Come and Get Me, Guarded Stance, Skill Focus: Diplomacy
17-Armor Training +4,Tireless Bloodrage , Greater Eldritch Heritage- Power of Giants
18-Bloodline Feat-Lightning Reflexes
19-(Strength of the Beast +6 Inherent to Strength), Raging Brutality
20-Fated BloodRager +5,Mighty Bloodrage, Bloodline Power-Superstition, Witchunter
By level 20
Defence:
Basically the premise is to use Base 10 +5 Fullplate (+14)/Dex+belt(+4)(/Fated Bloodrager (+6)/Guarded Stance (+4)/Amulet (+5)/Ring(+5)/+4 Beast Totem/+1 Ioun Stone for a good AC of 53 (a Good AC is considered your level+20)
-6 for Reckless Abandon
-4 Come and Get Me
for 43 AC (so still good)
Attack
Strength- Base Str16 (18 from levels)+6Belt/+6 Inherant to Str(Feats)/+8 Mighty Bloodrage/+5 Str (+5 Furious, Keen Courageous) = Str 43 (+16 to hit) When Raging and ups to 49 (+19 to hit) when using Power of Giants
Attack Bonus BAB20+ 7(Weapon Enhancement)+ 16 (Total Strength bonus when Raging)= 43 just in a rage
+6 Reckless Abandon
+1 Weapon Focus
-5 Dazing Assault
-6 Power Attack
so still an attack bonus of 39 just when raging.
If he uses his Touch of Rage Power from Eldritch Heritage he adds another +8 to attack for 1+2 rounds as a swift action 3/day
Seems pretty sweet to me.
You could have Power Attack, Reckless Abandon and Dazing Assault on ALL THE TIME and still hit just about anything in the bestiary with a moderate roll (I can't remember the Average AC per CR exactly though)
all the while maintaining a Good AC of 42.
Damage
Damage wise I won't crunch the numbers but with a STR of 43 when raging and two handing an effetively +7 enhancement keen weapon, I am sure the numbers are fine.
If he uses his Touch of Rage Power from Eldritch Heritage he adds another +8 to damage rolls for 1+1d4 rounds as a swift action 3/day
Very late in the build he gets Raging Brutality to add more mega damage at the expense of Bloodrage rounds. (Belt of Physical Perfection +6 on top on 16 Con is 9 damage extra per hit)
Saves
Fort Save is rediculous and Will is still ok.
Weak base will but adding +6 to the normal bonuses because of Fated Bloodrager helps ALOT. as well as the normal bonus to will from raging and the courageous enchant.
This I believe is his weakest area
I think this could be played around with a bit with the following
Fortuitous enchantment, (get an iterative on AOO's)
steadfast personality
arcane strike, (+5 to damage with a swift)
riving strike,
blooded arcane strike,
raging Brutality (16 Con plus belt adds +9 dmage per hit)
horn of the criosphinx. (He is a pouncer!!!)
A primalist bloodrager cannot take the feat extra rage power as a feat. However, any other archetype and the base class can, correct?
No. Normal Bloodragers don't get the Rage Power class feature at all, so they do not qualify for the Extra Rage Power feat.
What about this then: Bloodrage counts as the barbarian's rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects.
That would seem to qualify...unless I am reading it wrong.
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Extra Rage Power
You have unlocked a new ability to use while raging.
Prerequisite: Rage power class feature.
Benefit: You gain one additional rage power. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this rage power.
Special: You can gain Extra Rage Power multiple times.
Prerequisite: Rage power class feature.
Emphasis mine.
Extra Rage Power
You have unlocked a new ability to use while raging.
Prerequisite: Rage power class feature.
Benefit: You gain one additional rage power. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this rage power.
Special: You can gain Extra Rage Power multiple times.
Prerequisite: Rage power class feature.Emphasis mine.
Ah-ha. Yes, that would do it. Thanks
I have to say, I don't think you're giving the 'spelleater' archetype enough credit. After all, fast healing is pretty much another form of damage reduction, and unlike a normal bloodrager, you gain access to fast healing earlier and you get more of it (6 as opposed to 5 DR, not counting any DR bonuses). Furthermore, its very easy for the bloodrager to get DR from other sources (spell list included).
Furthermore, raging vitality and blood of life make you very difficult to kill since you 'auto stabilize' due to fast healing always being active (provided you have enough rounds of rage).
And finally, while the spell eating ability isn't THAT powerful, it can keep the bloodrager alive for a heck of a lot longer (think of it almost like lay on hands...but for a BARBARIAN).
Personally, I think a spelleater is infinitely more powerful/useful then the steelblood archetype. After all, the steelblood archetype ONLY really gives you a little extra armor (which is kinda counterproductive since you lose fast movement, but can move normally in heavy armor). Furthermore, blood deflection is kinda pointless since the bonus doesn't stack with a ring of protection. Overall, the steelblood archetype is kinda lackluster compared to spelleater, which can REALLY go a long way to keeping you alive.
Yay! Bloodrager guide! Nice start. I'll comment once I've read it properly.
And since this seems to be the place where angry freak kids can hang out and compare adrenaline levels, I'll drop off Abyssal Abby here so she can learn from you guys. She's a natural attack focused pitborn abyssal originally created for the ACG playtest, now reworked according to the printed rules into an abyssal/arcane rageshaper dipping into MoMS, thinking she's some kinda "Master of Monstrous Claws", or something. Should fit right in here, but beware of those long nails of hers - they'll tear the whole thread to shreds if she gets angry... ;)
Here's a build summary:
Demon-spawn tiefling crossblooded rager/rageshaper bloodrager 14, master of many styles monk 2
Alt. Racial Traits Maw, Prehensile Tail
Traits Trap Finder, Reactionary
Str 24/36, Dex 14/12, Con 17/27, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 14
DEFENSE
AC 35/33; HP 153/233; DR 2/-; Resist cold, electricity, fire 5
Fort +19/24; Ref +13/12 plus evasion; Will +15/18 +4 vs. enchantments
+2 to saves vs. sleep, paralysis, stunning effects; +2/4 to saves vs. fear; +5/6 to Fort and Ref, +5/3 to Will, up to 30 rounds/day
MELEE (PA, Arcane Strike, boots, rage vs. evil target)
2 claws +34 (4d6 +44(1st)/+39(2nd), +1d6 fire /[x2 plus shaken]); bite +33 (1d8+2d6+28/x2); gore +33 (1d8+2d6+28/x2); plus Cornugon Smash
Claws gain +7(1st)/+13(2nd) dmg when used in a charge
POWERS/FEATS
1 Abyssal Claws; Power Attack
2 -
3 Raging Vitality; IUS, Pummeling Style (MoMS 1)
4 Pummeling Charge (MoMS 2)
5 Arcane Strike (retrained from WF at 6th lvl)
6 Demonic Bulk
7 FCT (Claws); WF (Claws) (from opalescent white pyramid)
8 Iron Will (Arcane)
9 Horn of the Criosphinx
10 Greater Arcane Bloodrage
11 Cornugon Smash; Intimidating Prowess (Abyssal)
12 -
13 Dragon Style
14 Abyssal Bloodrage; Improved Initiative (Arcane)
15 Dragon Ferocity
SPELLS CL 14
1st 4/day expeditious retreat, long arm, magic missile, phantom blood, shield, wave shield, windy escape
2nd 3/day animal aspect, glitterdust, invisibility, mirror image, resist energy, see invisibility;
3rd 1/day blood scent, burrow, cloak of winds, fly, rage;
4th 1/day greater false life, beast shape II, stoneskin
NOTABLE SKILLS
Disable Device +26, Intimidate +26/33, Perception +30, Sense Motive +23, Stealth +26
(+5/6 to skill checks up to 30 rounds/day)
NOTABLE ITEMS
Furiously courageous body wrap of mighty strikes +2, Holy amulet of mighty fists and natural armor, Mithral celestial full plate +5, Belt (+4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con), Headband (+4 Int, Wis; Intimidate, Stealth), Cloak of elvenkind resistance +4, Ring of protection, Jingasa of the fortunate mammoth lord, Boots of the battle herald, Opalescent white pyramid of claws in wayfinder, Wand of protection from evil, Wand of shield
EXAMPLE DPR
372 DPR vs. CR 20 balor during Abby's opening turn, enough to kill the balor if it is within charge distance (10 - 140 ft.). Abby first initiates rage with animal aspect (gorilla) and haste, activates her boots, and then charges the balor using Power Attack (she is assumed to be in the Pummeling and Dragon style stances while awake).
Comments, improvement suggestions, critique etc. most appreciated!
I have to say, I don't think you're giving the 'spelleater' archetype enough credit. After all, fast healing is pretty much another form of damage reduction, and unlike a normal bloodrager, you gain access to fast healing earlier and you get more of it (6 as opposed to 5 DR, not counting any DR bonuses). Furthermore, its very easy for the bloodrager to get DR from other sources (spell list included).
Furthermore, raging vitality and blood of life make you very difficult to kill since you 'auto stabilize' due to fast healing always being active (provided you have enough rounds of rage).
And finally, while the spell eating ability isn't THAT powerful, it can keep the bloodrager alive for a heck of a lot longer (think of it almost like lay on hands...but for a BARBARIAN).
Personally, I think a spelleater is infinitely more powerful/useful then the steelblood archetype. After all, the steelblood archetype ONLY really gives you a little extra armor (which is kinda counterproductive since you lose fast movement, but can move normally in heavy armor). Furthermore, blood deflection is kinda pointless since the bonus doesn't stack with a ring of protection. Overall, the steelblood archetype is kinda lackluster compared to spelleater, which can REALLY go a long way to keeping you alive.
I agree here and would also like to throw this out.
I think there is a pretty good argument that the Fast Healer feat (+1/2 CON bonus to magical healing) doesn't work with non-magical fast healing. Blood of Life is listed as Su however. Using Fast Healer, Rage, and Raging Vitality I suspect it is possible to get equivalent fast healing rates above 15.
The prerequisite feats (Endurance and Diehard) appear on many of the Bloodline feat lists and Half-Orcs can start with Endurance as a racial option.
I've seen an abyssal bloodrager (rageshaper) in action, I think it's better than you let on. Despite having half the same AC as my same-level paladin he takes less damage because people don't survive to get near him. Ridiculous reach combined with enlarged/raging weapon damage on polearms kills most things.
Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus.
age, Domine! temptes nos ipsos expellere in gregem porcorum! videre velim quam tibi prodesset.
I've seen an abyssal bloodrager (rageshaper) in action, I think it's better than you let on. Despite having half the same AC as my same-level paladin he takes less damage because people don't survive to get near him. Ridiculous reach combined with enlarged/raging weapon damage on polearms kills most things.
Yeah, the Aberrant might do that in an even neater way. But that doesn't make Abyssal bad, just not as good.
I think abyssal is ok for a reach build, but not nearly as good as aberrant unless you really want to go with a non-humanoid race.
But abyssal rageshaper is just awesome for a damage focused natural attack build. If you go for a race with a good inherent natural attack (other than claws, such as horc, gnoll, kitsune, skinwalker or especially tiefling) at 4th level, your full attack can include three or more full-bab attacks, each dealing up to 2d8+str. AFAIK, that's about the highest single-target damage a PC can produce in one turn at this level.
By dipping 2 levels of MoMS monk, you can also get Pummeling Style and Pummeling Charge as bonus feats, allowing you to deliver your devastating full attack as one, even on charge attacks, for improved DR penetration and silly damage on crits.
MoMS also nets you free IUS and sets you up for later FCT shenanigans, which can for example inlude (like the "Abyssal Abby" build above) Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity. This gives your first claw attack a +Str damage bonus and later ones +1/2 Str, and each claw become "a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier" for increased Power Attack bonuses. And if you also grab Horn of the Criosphinx, you instead add 2 x Str to your claws on charges, giving your Pummeling Charge attacks simply ridiculous overkill potential.
Also, the Rageshaper archetype isn't as bad as you think; it works with the Abyssal's claws. Meaning, at level 4 when you rage you have claws for 2d6 each. I don't think it's relevant for most other bloodlines though.
at lvl 8 you can have your claws dealing 3d6 damage and count as magic.
(The following is copied from what I wrote in this thread.)
Actually, according to RAW, Bestial Aspect does not increase the damage die size, but adds one die (my emphasis):
At 4th level, whenever a rageshaper gains a natural attack through the use of a polymorph spell, he can increase the damage done by that attack by one die.
Note that it does NOT say "die size", "by one step", "damage die type" or similar (like for example the Improved Natural Attack and most other PC options related to damage die).
In effect, the Abyssal Claws of a 4th level Rageshaper of medium size deal 2d6 damage, or 2d8 if the Bloodrager is of large size (through Demonic Bulk or whatever). Similarly, at 8th level the claw attacks deal 2d8 when medium, or 4d6 when large (the Abyssal Claw damage die of a large non-rageshaper is 2d6, so "increasing the damage by one die" adds another 2d6).
This may just be a typo in the quoted rules, but since it hasn't been called out by the Paizo devs as such (AFAIK), having Bestial Aspect increase damage die size by one step (as suggested by other posters here) would clearly be a houserule.
i believe that the powers that grant you claws should instead of them counting as magic it should make them count as something else (alignment? coldiron/silver?) because bloodrager already has easy access to always on arcane strike that already makes his attacks count as magic...
I totally agree. Though I think there are a few alternatives to an expensive AoMF, like Pummeling Style. The amulet is probably better left to higher levels, at first only with the Holy ability and no enhancement bonuses.
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Also, the Rageshaper archetype isn't as bad as you think; it works with the Abyssal's claws. Meaning, at level 4 when you rage you have claws for 2d6 each. I don't think it's relevant for most other bloodlines though.
at lvl 8 you can have your claws dealing 3d6 damage and count as magic.(The following is copied from what I wrote in this thread.)
Actually, according to RAW, Bestial Aspect does not increase the damage die size, but adds one die (my emphasis):
At 4th level, whenever a rageshaper gains a natural attack through the use of a polymorph spell, he can increase the damage done by that attack by one die.
Note that it does NOT say "die size", "by one step", "damage die type" or similar (like for example the Improved Natural Attack and most other PC options related to damage die).
In effect, the Abyssal Claws of a 4th level Rageshaper of medium size deal 2d6 damage, or 2d8 if the Bloodrager is of large size (through Demonic Bulk or whatever). Similarly, at 8th level the claw attacks deal 2d8 when medium, or 4d6 when large (the Abyssal Claw damage die of a large non-rageshaper is 2d6, so "increasing the damage by one die" adds another 2d6).
This may just be a typo in the quoted rules, but since it hasn't been called out by the Paizo devs as such (AFAIK), having Bestial Aspect increase damage die size by one step (as suggested by other posters here) would clearly be a houserule.
Wow, I never noticed that difference until you pointed it out. It looks like they probably meant die size, but you're right, that's not what they actually wrote.
It's actually advantageous though; it means that at level 4 you go from 1d8 to 2d8 rather than 2d6. By level 8 it's a wash, with 2d6 either way. Later on it starts to lag a bit I think, but by then you're mostly outside PFS playable range anyway.
Wow, I never noticed that difference until you pointed it out. It looks like they probably meant die size, but you're right, that's not what they actually wrote.
It's actually advantageous though; it means that at level 4 you go from 1d8 to 2d8 rather than 2d6. By level 8 it's a wash, with 2d6 either way. Later on it starts to lag a bit I think, but by then you're mostly outside PFS playable range anyway.
Yes, it's definitely advantageous, but thankfully not anywhere close to OP IMO. But I wouldn't call it a wash at level 8, since it would result in 2d8 (medium) or 4d6 (large), rather than 2d6 or 2d8, according to the "Natural Attacks by Size" table. Not much of a difference if medium sized, but if that's usually applicable to an abyssal bloodrager, the player is probably doing something wrong...
Adding a die to 2d6 will become 3d6, not 4d6.
Not in the case of the damage done by physical mundane attacks dependent on size (i.e. weapons, US, natural attacks), since such an attack's "damage die" is not the same thing as a physical die, and can actually consist of several physical dice. Hence there are related options referring to "damage die size/type", which can be anything from 1d2 to 4d8 in the associated tables (and those tables also don't differentiate between a 1d12 damage die and a 2d6 damage die, for example).
Also note that this differs from how options which modify the damage dice of stuff unrelated to size (such as damage associated with spells and special abilities like SA) treat damage dice, and those options always specify their exact changes.
Also note that this differs from how options which modify the damage dice of stuff unrelated to size (such as damage associated with spells and special abilities like SA) treat damage dice, and those options always specify their exact changes.So when you get "add an extra die on a sneak attack" you double them? No sir.
Extra die is extra die.If it would double the number of dices then it would have use vital strike language:
Double the base damage without modifiers'
Read the last paragraph of my post again, please.
Also, ask yourself whether the damage die of a colossal greatsword is smaller than the damage die of a medium longsword. If you assume the "damage die size/type" of a weapon/natural attack refers to a physical die type, your answer to that question is clearly "yes", which will likely have a pretty weird impact on your game. For example, the many options which increase the "damage die size/type" without further specifying what that means (such as the animal aspect spell, the improved damage eidolon evo, the hive totem toxicity rage power etc.) will result in something like: d12 to d20 to d100 to ?. And for example a greataxe would go from 1d12 normal damage to 1d20, while a greatsword would go from 2d6 to 2d8.
Also, why are you rage cycling as a bloodrager? You would have to swap out virtually all of your bloodline to get enough 1/rage rage powers to make it remotely useful (since they are markedly inferior to beast totem line/ superstition/witch hunter). You don't take advantage of your action economy saving spell autocasting by cycling.
BloodRage Cycle is useful:
bloodrage ON -> cast True Strike -> attack -> bloodrage off -> bloodrage ON -> cast true strike ETC...The same goes for a Samsaran Bloodrager with Bladed Dash...
There are many others
I personally maintain that at the very highest levels, the abyssal bloodrager edges out the arcane bloodrager on pure damage due to the much higher Strength score and the ease of acquiring haste at those levels.
And don't forget that in addition to the extra attack from haste, the abyssal bloodrager can incorporate a claw attack into their full attack with a weapon.
I personally maintain that at the very highest levels, the abyssal bloodrager edges out the arcane bloodrager on pure damage due to the much higher Strength score and the ease of acquiring haste at those levels.
And don't forget that in addition to the extra attack from haste, the abyssal bloodrager can incorporate a claw attack into their full attack with a weapon.
While abyssal does probably have the highest raw damage output, it is kinda horrible at everything else. Going through the abilities one by one.
Claws: Useless for anything but a natural attack build, and for a NA build, you want either arcane or draconic to get a good auto-polymorph.
Abyssal Bulk: Decent when you get it, but grows worse as you gain access to better size increases.
Demon Resistances: Meh. Equivalent to aasimar or tiefling racial resistances plus a feat.
Abyssal Bloodrage: Good ability, but even it has the -2 AC drawback.
Demonic Aura: RAW, a horrible ability, as it damages yourself even if you don't use demonic bulk. Even trying to go with RAI it would damage you if you are large size.
Demonic Immunity: Immunity to electricity and poison is a pretty bad capstone compared to the rest of the bloodlines.
Abyssal just doesn't stack up compared to the best bloodlines. I mean, I would rather have only fated bloodrager then the full abyssal bloodline. The base bloodrager is already great at dealing raw damage, and the boost from abyssal isn't worth the complete lack of utility and the actual decrease in survivability.
That's why you trade out demonic resistances, demonic immunities, and demonic aura for the pounce rage powers via the primalist archetype. Sure it might not come together until level 20, but boy is it a strong level 20.
Sure it might not come together until level 20, but boy is it a strong level 20.
Is this sarcasm? I'm really hurting and tired so I'm finding it hard to tell.
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A character should be looking at being strong and built by level 10 latest. Suffering till 20 for pay off is terrible. Not many campaigns go to 20. Most APs go to 13-17 and PFS ends at 12. Building for 20 is terrible play and building.
If it was sarcasm sorry. But ratings should not be rated with level 20 in mind. Most wont reach it.
That being said Im trying to figure out a bloodrager and dragon disciple build. I like the +4 str boosts. I was wondering if I traded out breath weapon from draconic bloodline with primalist if i still get it when i prestige into Dragon disciple. Trying to fit in beast totem line and still het the natural armor from both bloodline and beast totem.
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Well for the build I have in mind @level 8 you drop breath weapon for lesser beast totem and beast totem. @ 12 you drop wings (only while raging power) for greater beast totem and 1 more rage power.
@13 dip dragon disciple for 4 levels. You gain breath weapon back.
The only thing you loose is 1 CL and Raging Wings ability.
The trade off is +9 Natural armor while raging(+6 N.A. while not raging). +4 strength, bite, D12 HD, slightly better will saves, and pounce.
Seems worth it as pounce is freaking awesome especially paired with flight and haste.
Question....does getting a rage power through p rimalist qualify you for extra rage power?
no they have a line in primalist that specifically prohibits it.
Dotting this;I keep losing it in the forum flow, and while I disagree with the Primalist emphasis (it feels like focusing on the benefits of barbarian rather than Bloodrager, and it's a bloodrager guide), I'd really like to see where this goes.
Dotting this;I keep losing it in the forum flow, and while I disagree with the Primalist emphasis (it feels like focusing on the benefits of barbarian rather than Bloodrager, and it's a bloodrager guide), I'd really like to see where this goes.
I think the big issue with primalist is that it is never a bad option. You can pick from the best rage powers the barbarian has to offer by trading out your worst abilities.
Oh, I completely understand why it's good,I have no problem at all with bad abilities being pointed out as good trades for rage powers, but I don't think good abilities should be rated down just because they compete with beast totem and CAGM.
That said, I didn't mean for my single disagreement to taint the post with a negative tone;loving the guide so far, and I definitely appreciate the time and effort spent to make it.
Half Orc Sacred Tattoo only gives +1 to saves.