Brawler proficiency conflict


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

In anticipation of playing a Brawler, I was statting one up to see how my general envisioning would work when I found an apparent conflict with their Shield proficiency.

In the 'armor' section it states they are not proficient with shields, however, in the 'weapons' part it states they are proficient with weapons from the fighter's Close group, of which light and heavy shields do belong to, so how does that work, are shields only useful as weapons, or are they simply excluded by the later statement?

Dark Archive

I read that as they are excluded but other may/will disagree.


They're proficient with shields as weapons. So one could bash with them without readying it for an AC bonus (otherwise that would lead to armor check penalty to attacks due to non-proficiency).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Protoman wrote:
They're proficient with shields as weapons. So one could bash with them without readying it for an AC bonus (otherwise that would lead to armor check penalty to attacks due to non-proficiency).

This. Seems a bit counterintuitive I know, but this.

I believe this was discussed during the playtest, and the consensus was exactly this.


Protoman wrote:
They're proficient with shields as weapons. So one could bash with them without readying it for an AC bonus (otherwise that would lead to armor check penalty to attacks due to non-proficiency).

This

Sovereign Court

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Wait. This makes no sense. Why would I block with my bludgeoning disc?


Protoman wrote:
They're proficient with shields as weapons. So one could bash with them without readying it for an AC bonus (otherwise that would lead to armor check penalty to attacks due to non-proficiency).

I believe Protoman is right. It's a pointless limitation, really, but what c'est la vie.


Thanks for the quick responses, glad to get that cleared up.

Calliope Zhan wrote:

Wait. This makes no sense. Why would I block with my bludgeoning disc?

My cat was asleep until I read this.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Elf Brawler:Well I have my Smashing Board.


Andrew Christian wrote:
Protoman wrote:
They're proficient with shields as weapons. So one could bash with them without readying it for an AC bonus (otherwise that would lead to armor check penalty to attacks due to non-proficiency).

This. Seems a bit counterintuitive I know, but this.

I believe this was discussed during the playtest, and the consensus was exactly this.

The magus has proficiency with all martial weapons, but not with shields in their armor section (and faces arcane spell failure as normal if they use a shield).

So it is not like this is without precedent. You can smack people with the shield, but you take its ACP to attack rolls if you use it as a shield.

Oh, what is that you say? ACP is 0 for masterwork light shields? Mithral heavy shields too? But wouldn't that mean that there is no penalty for using these shields? And that the only problem would be shield related feats that require proficiency?

How interesting, my dear dear......self referred to in the second person. You sound like an annoying jerk when you talk like that.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So all of this means that the only Brawler archetype who is not proficient with shields as weapons is the Shield Champion?


Very interesting points are cropping up now... And I just might make a Blugeoning Disc brawler for kicks. And since they're part of the Close fighter weapon group, couldn't they be used in a brawler's fury action?
<edit>
Nope, got it confused with Flurry of Blows. Flurry allows monk weapons to be used, Fury is just Unarmed Strikes.

That kills my ridiculous fighting style plan, lol.
</edit>


Magus Pierce wrote:

Very interesting points are cropping up now... And I just might make a Blugeoning Disc brawler for kicks. And since they're part of the Close fighter weapon group, couldn't they be used in a brawler's fury action?

<edit>
Nope, got it confused with Flurry of Blows. Flurry allows monk weapons to be used, Fury is just Unarmed Strikes.

That kills my ridiculous fighting style plan, lol.
</edit>

Quote:
Starting at 2nd level, a brawler can make a brawler’s flurry as a full-attack action. When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the “monk” special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.

Smashing board away.


David knott 242 wrote:

So all of this means that the only Brawler archetype who is not proficient with shields as weapons is the Shield Champion?

Well the writer of the archetype, Jim Grove, stated the Shield Champion is supposed to be proficient in shield as a weapon and armor.

Technically with the way it's worded that each shield is specified as proficient, which I think might be the only case for that besides swashbucklers and bucklers, could be argued that they meant for it to be listed as weapon and armor proficiencies. But it REALLY needs an errata or FAQ to clear that up for PFS (my dreams of Captain Andoran build are being delayed because of this!)


Protoman wrote:
(my dreams of Captain Andoran build are being delayed because of this!)

They have lycra in golarion? Why did no-one say? I've been building my elf miniatures wrong!

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