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hey community,
so, Rise of the Runelords is out, Kingmaker is out. and no weird stuff - i like classic high fantasy in Golarian. looking to make a top 5 hot list of APs and we'll go with the first one that is 'fresh' to everybody (that nobody has adventured through personally yet). suggestions?
1) Jade Regent
2)
3)
4)
5)
I really enjoyed playing scull and shackles and am having a good time running kingmaker. However, both of those are pretty sandboxy and therefore are probably a bit more preparation intensive, so that is something to remember
Carrion Crown is awesome.
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Carrion Crown is the single best AP published, for the first one and a half books.
Reign of Winter is kinda cool.
Jade Regent is about managing relationships with a handful of cardboard NPCs. Skulls & Shackles is about grinding. Kingmaker is about the lords of the land, army-vanquishing heroes, still doing fetch-quests, also about running magic items shops and pretending that 100 trolls marching overland is any kind of challenge at level 10+.
Serpent's Skull is cool fantasy adventure. Once you move from the upper city to the lower city, past level 10 or 12, it becomes stupid though.
Out of the APs I've really enjoyed RotRL (which is out) and Skull & Shackles. I've played in Curse of the Crimson Throne but wasn't a huge fan of it - might have been a GM issue though.
If you want something that's a little less prep-intensive and not as long as an AP I'd strongly consider Emerald Spire. it's very easy to run for the GM, and my players are having a blast. It is quite a bit more "dungeon crawly" than the typical AP though.
Curse of the Golden Spear (3 module mini campaign arc) was all kinds of fun. If your group is halfway decent, you will probably need to scale up some of the important encounters though. They have a tendency to sound tougher than they actually were.
If you do this though, I would recommend you also run Up From Darkness between the 1st and 2nd modules.
Jade Regent got very mixed and polarized opinions from the people I've talked to about it. They either loved it or hated it. I haven't tried it.
If you like undead heavy campaigns Carrion Crown is the classic. Was almost to much for me though. If you do this one. Please be sure not to overplay the xenophobia of the locals. Especially in the first book. Our GM was a bit heavy handed on this and we just about quit the region to let them all die. Also unless you KNOW them very well, don't just assume your players are all up on their horror movies and novels. A bunch of times we couldn't figure out any way to defeat things because we hadn't watched/read the right horror movies/novels.
Everyone seems to love Dragon's Demand. I'm planning to get it next.
I really enjoyed running Council of Thieves. I find that players are more able to become invested in their characters and the setting when they aren't moving around the countryside constantly. CoT all takes place in one city and a couple outlying areas. Also it has an opera.
Kingmaker is good but very free-form and so it didn't work well with the party I ran it with. They needed more structure.
Rise of the Runelords conforms to many of the classic adventuring tropes. It also is a lot of fun.
I was not really a fan of Serpent's Skull.
Play Skull & Shackles if you're a fan of morally questionable characters and pirate shenanigans.
I can confirm that Carrion Crown is amazing for the first couple books. It has some serious falloff after that. It also is really loosely connected plot-wise between the modules.
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1) Jade Regent
2) Council of Thieves
3) Carrion Crown
4)
5)
Based on your comments, I will consider Skull & Shackles. I suspect my players would like to play it more than I would like to run it though.
Can you guys tell me more about Reign of Winter, Serpent's Skull, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Dragon's Demand?
I want to spend at least a year running, so i'd like to have sufficient material - our group is one year into Rise but our DM needs a break - i really hope to return to it - so yeah, a good AP to keep the group together. Also, I am not opposed to prep time. I like story and drama. And the other players, though heavily invested in the combat strategy side of the game, can be pulled into a good story so long as they get to shake things up with a good couple fights to punctuate the story at regular intervals.
btw no major spoilers please! in case i might play in one of them one day i don't like being privy to the secrets, etc...
If you are looking for a classic feel, Shattered Star is basically a retelling of the old "Collect 7 pieces of an Artifact" campaign. Basic dungeon diving with alot of interesting locales, and the best trap of all time in book 2.
If you're game for a mild conversion, I've GMd the 3.5 Savage Tide AP twice to roughly the midpoint. I was bummed we didn't get to go further, as the second half read as well as the first. Great mix of different adventures. Excellent recurring villain, city adventures, dungeon crawls, high seas, a colony on a mysterious island, underwater adventures, diplomacy adventures, depraved bad guys, planar travel, and a plotline that slowly reveals itself; really excellently written stuff.
Throne of Night?
If 3rd Party is in I'd almostagree with you. Though I would suggest Way of the Wicked!
Another vote for Shattered Star.
Hrmmm
Classic fantasy with no weird stuff... what exactly do you define as 'weird stuff'?
If you want really classic (IMO) Second Darkness is about as classic as it gets - although the transition from the first book to the second book is a bit ham fisted - the story has a ton of elves, drow, ancient magic, and saving the world in it.
Shattered Star is like *the* ap if you want lots of dungeons - it has some tie in's to the other AP's here and there - nothing heavy handed - but if you've played the others it's a nice wink and a nod thrown in.
Legacy of Fire is very very classic - with (IMO anyway) two very huge dungeons, and yet still has a decent mix of non dungeon stuff outside of that - out of all the AP's I've read however - this one is the most railroady for your players - but still a great story if your players don't mind having limited options for a good chunck of it.
Jade Reagent - well the name says it all - it is really decent adventure about travelling around the world - part of the adventure that most of the time is glossed over - and then at your destination it's in the game equivalent of the far east - if you don't like Oriental mythology it will fall flat at that point.
Mummy's Mask - good adventure - some odd transitions between the books but nothing outrageous - solid locations and plot throughout, your players should enjoy the idea of a desert setting though...
Reign of Winter - I'm assuming you won't like this - weird stuff
Wrath of the Righteous - how min/max are your players? This one is a pretty damn epic story - very classic fantasy - and honestly if you want you can ignore mythic - people have done so (with 15 point buy characters) and beat the AP - Mythic is fun (IMO - although our group also likes the occasional superhero game so YMMV)
Iron Gods - again depending on what you consider weird this one is most likely out - very much old school (Gary Gygax style) with a mix of alien tech and fantasy - not for someone who doesn't like robots.
I've not actually read or played Carrion Crown so I'm going to leave that out of my list.
Skull and Shackles - do you like pirates? Do you like ocean adventures? If so stop reading and play that. I'm not a pirate fan - even still this adventure is pretty interesting story wise.
Curse of the Crimson Throne - interesting story with some odd pacing - pretty classic and no weirdness - biggest complaint seems to be that just when your players get invested in one area - they get shoved into another area for 1/2 the AP.
Council of Thieves gets a pretty poor review by many - I've not read through it but the general feeling is that you need to read the AP - and then weave your own version of it to pull it off.
Serpents Skull - from what I've heard this one can have a pretty high random death rate at the beginning. That's about all I know of it.
Shattered Star is precisely what you said you liked.
Carrion Crown has a lot of Ravenloft flavor if that's your thing.
Skulls and Shackles is awesome but it is not classic fantasy.
Serpent's Skull is very much jungle lost city exploration. Needs a lot of GM in put to flesh out locations.
Curse of the Crimson Throne- awesome! I agree you get kicked out of dodge right when you do not want to but can be sold well.
Age of Worms its one of the 3.5 APs from Dungeon mags but I have heard its one of the best.
As far as side trips and monsters go Reign of Winter can be really weird
(a sojourn to early 20th century earth in one volume and a trip off planet to a frozen alien world in another.)
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Instead of a full AP as a break, consider one of the recent megamodules(double sized) that paizo has released recently. Dragon's Demand, Doom comes to Dustspawn, etc.. as an alternate idea.
Carrion Crown is the single best AP published, for the first one and a half books.
Reign of Winter is kinda cool.
Jade Regent is about managing relationships with a handful of cardboard NPCs. Skulls & Shackles is about grinding. Kingmaker is about the lords of the land, army-vanquishing heroes, still doing fetch-quests, also about running magic items shops and pretending that 100 trolls marching overland is any kind of challenge at level 10+.
Serpent's Skull is cool fantasy adventure. Once you move from the upper city to the lower city, past level 10 or 12, it becomes stupid though.
I really like your vicious criticisms. Most entertaining!
Don't forget in Jade, keeping those relationships can be quite the grind-quest, and what improves specific relationships can be quite odd at times. There are also some hard coded limits on what relationships are acceptable (please grind for months if you want to change this).
Ah relationship restrictions, just like a computer game. Exactly what tabletop rpgs are about.
For future reference, the best place to ask about APs in general is this part of the forum: Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion, and it's sub-forums which are dedicated to the individual APs (as Voideternal pointed out).
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For starters I would check out the GM Reference Board for Council of Thieves.
I partly ran-partly played Council of Thieves, but I don't think the Advice forum is appropriate for discussing specific details*. That said, I don't know if the Council of Thieves board is still alive. It's a pretty old AP, I think.* Also I can't think of any tips off the top of my head.
excellent thanks. so great to leave the armchair! you guys rock.
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Council of Thieves
any tips?
Tip: when you run it, don't call it "Council of Thieves". Tell your players it's "Rebellion in Westcrown" or "Chellaxian Turmoil" or something. The AP really isn't about the CoT in the way that the title suggests.
That said, I had fun running it. It's different in that it's stationary. Your PCs get to stick to one city (and its environs) for the whole time. It's also got some unique roleplay opportunities in it, such as... a play. Literally.
1. Jade Regent
2. Shattered Star
3. Carrion Crown
4. Council of Thieves
5. Curse of the Crimson Throne
thats my top 5 picks based on your criterion
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Ok so you want to know which one is the best.
You said Rise of the Runelords -is out so no comment their.
Curse of the Crimson Throne- is a fantasic adventure, and classic.
Second Darkness -is all about the underdark.
Legacy of Fire- is classic with a Arabic feel.
Council of Theives -do you like devils?
Kingmaker -you said is out.
Serpent's Skull- jungles and underdark.
Carrion Crown -classic horror theme.
Jade Regent great adventure multiple cultures.
Skull and shackles-all about pirates
Shattered Star- very classic follow-up to Rise of the Runelords.
Winter's Reign- Cool adventure does get weird.
Wrath of the righteous- Demons, Demons, Demons
Mummy's Mask- Pyramid's and Mummy's
Iron Gods- sci-fi influx.
My favorites are Curse of the Crimson throne and Jade Regent. :)
If you're in Rise of the Runelords now, do not touch Shattered Star, not yet.
Well, not an AP, but could be a full out campaign if one likes big large dungeons...Emerald Spire.
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Jade Regent great adventure multiple cultures.
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I haven't tried it yet, but I've heard very mixed comments on this one. I would guess it must be fairly dependent on the GM's skill.
Paizo does a great job researching and adding in other cultures without making them into hollywood cliches, whether its egyptian, mongolian, japanese or indian they do an excellent job, and yes they nailed it in Jade Regent, super awesome job i thought:)
Since you have JR up there, I'd recommend it as well. I've been running it for nearly two years we 're on book 5 and its been very good overall. The fixes are easy to make (see the boards here) and require minimal effort. This has definitely been one of the easier APs to run as is. The only thing of course is to gauge your groups interest in the premise of the AP and the asian setting.
Slumbering Tsar
Rappan Athuk
Splinters of Faith
Rappan athuk looks like it'd be fun for a giant dungeon. What is Splinters about?
As for other third-party AP's, Way of the Wicked is a ton of fun and very..different. The PC's are evil, but have reasons to work together. I've been playing in a PbP of it for..no idea, a long long time.
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Ok folks. Next question:
I am currently running CoT, and having a blast, but am interested in a hardcover sourcebook that has information regarding Westcrown and the surrounding area. I am preferential to one that would be most relevant for a DM running this AP. What top 3 books do you recommend and why?
1)
2)
3)
cheers!
My group is about to start the Emerald Spire. I can't really recommend it as I haven't played it yet, but a PF mega-dungeon is a can't miss proposition to me.
There will be something coming out in the Campaign Setting line sometime this June. And presumably when the Hell's Rebels AP starts in August there will be a Player Companion which fits the AP theme/region.
Second Darkness is also tops. You get to kill drow and save elves. And then kill more drow and save more elves from the evil demon lord of fungi and treekilling. So if you really like elves and like killing drow (and who doesn't?), that fits. Way of the Wicked is awesome, but you need to like evil villains. I would also suggest Rise of the Drow, the follow up one, and the prequel for it. Even more killing drow and no elves to be saved.
And if you want ultra-super nostalgia, go for Night Below and convert it to Pathfinder. Mind Flayers and Aboleths and Derro! OH MY! Of course, don't post any conversions of our friendly 4 tentacle beaked or leech mouthed eaters of brains here, or the nasty WOTC lawyers will come and eat your brain and render Paizo incapable of producing any more awesome APs. Then we will be stuck with grand adventures like my orc slayer is guarding a pie, please use your healing surge to overcome his strike of power!
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Coridan, others,
do you highly recommend Cheliax Empire of Devils as your #1 choice sourcebook for the Council of Thieves AP?
I'd like to make a single purchase and want tons of background information - 3.5 mechanics is close enough and wouldn't bother me in the least (I usually totally re-stat NPCs anyway...)
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It's a rather older sourcebook so some of it may be out of step with current Golarion stuff, the stuff in the back of the actual adventure path books is your best source for the adventure path itself. There's a gazetteer of Westcrown, two hellknight articles, an Asmodeus article and a Mammon article.