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For example, a 4th level summoner on round 1 uses evolution surge to add a 2 point evolution to the eidolon....on round two he cast's again and add's another two point evolution to the eidolon...
Does this work ?
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Wouldn't that be lesser evolution surge at 4th level, and 2 evolution points?
I don't see anything against it, except that each evolution would have to be a new evolution, cannot grant the eidolon any natural attacks above their normal maximum natural attack cap, and meets the spell requirements.
Might be good for a last-ditch effort, but it burns up those precious level 2 slots when you won't have a heck of a lot of them, for a minutes per level buff.
I can see it, since you would have to give up the same level spell slot as casting a 4+ person haste would take....
The summoner in my Kingmaker game tried to pull this crap and I said no. Pretty much every spell doesn't stack with itself(with the exception of cure spells I guess), don't see a reason to make this an exception. There is a RAW argument for it, but do you really want to give your GM more reason to ban summoner(assuming they don't just say no to this) and if you are gm... You don't need this spell to buff an eidilon/summoner anyways.
The stacking rules for magic might (read: probably) prevent it.
Typically when multiple versions of the same spell are on the same target only the most powerful one (biggest bonus) is in effect. If they are all the same "strength" the most recent one cast is dominant.
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Although it's the same spell, the effects differ...it would be more or less the same as multiple uses of Energy Resistance, which as long as you are choosing a different energy type each time does work.
The spell is giving u 2 evolutionary points....thats it. Once u get them then you chose where they go but the spell just gives u 2 evolutionary points. When u cast the first spell u get 2 evolutionary points and u put them where u want but the 2 points are active for tje duration of the spell then the 2 points go away and what ever u spent those points on is no more.
Thats where the stacking of identical points are preventing this from happening. Its not that u are using the 2 points it grants into somewhere else, its that even though the points are spent they are still considered active. You cast the same spell again u get 2 points and since u already have 2 points active still those 2 points are just hanging there until the first one goes away so that u are not stacking 4 points at one time instead of by the rules having the second cast spell of 2 points come into play for their remianing duration whenever the first 2 points drop off.
It is the same spell and the same effect:2 evolution points.
It is the same spell and the same effect:2 evolution points.
This is wrong. The spell description is You can grant the eidolon any evolution whose total cost does not exceed 2 evolution points. It is giving one evolution with the stipulation it does not exceed 2 points.
This line of thinking is arguably similar to Protection from Energy, in that looking at it as "spell grants immunity" and ignoring "to one energy type" would give the same result.
I'd let it stack as long as it's not the same evolution.
The summoner in my Kingmaker game tried to pull this crap and I said no. Pretty much every spell doesn't stack with itself(with the exception of cure spells I guess), don't see a reason to make this an exception. There is a RAW argument for it, but do you really want to give your GM more reason to ban summoner(assuming they don't just say no to this) and if you are gm... You don't need this spell to buff an eidilon/summoner anyways.
the only exception being spells with an instantaneous effect. like fire balls do in fact still do damage to people who have been hit by fireballs.
If stacking energy resistances does work, then that use alone is an example that the RAW 'no 2 same spells stack and the second deactivates the first'... so Bob Bob Bob's RAW there clearly gets subverted occasionally with some spells.
RAW it doesnt sound like it should work.
RAI I personally *feel* like it *should* work. I don't see a problem with it.
If it were up to me I'd say that putting on *different evolutions* on top of each other works fine...
As a consummate evolutionist summoner I must admit I'm biased.
As a DM who hates min maxing munchkiners I'd say I have a hair trigger about what I feel is overpowered and I don't really see this being overpowered in any way.
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After reading the arguments above, I'm convinced that by RAW the spell stacks with itself. It doesn't add evolution points, it adds evolutions. So long as those are different evolutions, it stacks with itself. Which leads to the next question: is this reasonable? After thinking about it, my answer is yes.
Evolution Surge is a terrible spell-choice in combat, where you'd be much better-served by a buff like haste or a debuff like glitterdust. That relegates it to being used as a prebuff, and with 1 minute/level duration it's not particularly well-suited to being that either. And what are you going to get? You probably already have the most important combat-relevant evolutions, so you're picking from stuff you already passed up. Do you really need more than one of those? I'd imagine you're more likely to be picking up utility evolutions (like swim+gills) rather than combat evolutions.
Let it stack, I don't see a problem here.
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The use of the word "stack" here is a little confusing. Stacking typically means two different sources of bonus (in this case, two castings of the spell) add together to create a larger bonus.
In the case of evolution surge, the limitations of the spell are clear. You can't improve an existing evolution, but there's nothing stopping you from using multiple castings to gain multiple evolutions, as long as they're each covered by their own spell.
Is this great? Not really. Each casting eats up a standard action, and beyond a few very useful evolutions that should maybe be permanent anyway, you can't accomplish much more than you could do with any other spell or scroll. Usually less.
Now, there's a certain appeal to the right evolution at the right time (swim speed?) but there's nothing in the list of evolutions that's hands-down better than a spell of equivalent level. And summoners don't get too many spell slots.
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I would save the evolution surges for size increasements or energy immunities or the ability to make it able to attack ghosts or give it a new mode of transportation. Etc...
Yeah. The evolutions surges I drop tend to be very situational and its rare that you need to compensate for more than one wierd situation at a time.
It sure has happened though...
For the most part evolution surges arent 'make or break' combat buffs so it's hard to think of this as 'overpowered'... Alpha strike isnt exactly a summoner forte. But I've had a fair bit of occasions where it was useful to surge more than once at a time outside of combat.
What I'm running is an Android/Synthesist, with the "eidolon skin" fluffed as advanced (by the Technic league) nanites. The intent of using evolution surge, is to allow for his nanites to adapt his defenses and attacks to fit the situation. I'm just trying to understand if(or more accurately to what extent) he can do this with evolution surge ???
What I'm running is an Android/Synthesist, with the "eidolon skin" fluffed as advanced (by the Technic league) nanites. The intent of using evolution surge, is to allow for his nanites to adapt his defenses and attacks to fit the situation. I'm just trying to understand if(or more accurately to what extent) he can do this with evolution surge ???
Ask your GM. You're not playing PFS as the synthesist is no longer allowed, so you don't need anything more official than your GMs ruling. Let them know there is no official FAQ, point them to this post (and they can search for at least one other thread that I know of covering this topic as well), and they can read it and make their ruling for the game you are playing.