Is there ever a reason to single level dip Summoner?

[Belabras]

A lot of classes offer something on just a one level dip - fighter offers feats, investigator offers a slew of skills, rogue gives skills and sneak attack, sorcerer has arcana and the first bloodline power, etcetera.

Summoner, on the other hand, is so tied to Eidolon abilities that any multiclassing at all would seem to be a bad idea. Is there ever a situation where a dip into Summoner is good?

[Zwordsman]

Well there are plenty of RP reasons.

Not so much crunch options though..
other than having a small monster for you always. or for an unkillable ride option.
or i suppose trap fodder.

[James Langley]

You could dip Synthesist and gain an exosuit. Not a big whoop, but still pretty handy.

[BigDTBone]

I could see a build where you played a synthesist and added evolution points with feats even though you only had one level in summoner.

A Paladin with 1 lvl dip in synthesist summoner would be cool. You would literally be the Avatar of your god.

Ninja'd by 23 seconds.

[Renegadeshepherd]

Synthesist yes definitely. For a regular summoner there are familiar like eidilons that sneak, steal, scroll/ wand away to aid their master in various ways. Unlike a familiar or similar beasts your eidilon will regen over time so you need not worry about "losing" it or costly rituals.

Edit: you could summon a quadruped eidilon and cast that arcane spell that causes fire to be left behind em. Have your weak "mount" run back and forth for something like 10D6 damage. It's kinda effective too.

[KenderKin]

I recommend you consider the flank buddy build. Will stay useful longer than most others.

[blahpers]

Skill monkey? Translator? Or just to have the summon monster ability to clog up the battlefield a few times a day. There are some decent 1st-level spells on the list as well.

Beyond that, plenty of interesting RP opportunities.

[Wiggz]

Belabras wrote:

A lot of classes offer something on just a one level dip - fighter offers feats, investigator offers a slew of skills, rogue gives skills and sneak attack, sorcerer has arcana and the first bloodline power, etcetera.

Summoner, on the other hand, is so tied to Eidolon abilities that any multiclassing at all would seem to be a bad idea. Is there ever a situation where a dip into Summoner is good?

Well, you can build a small-sized scout who has extremely high stealth, extremely high perception, can see in the dark and can communicate with you telepathically... that's a hell of an asset to any character.

[Rosc]

There are plenty of reasons to dip Summoner. Right off the bat you're getting Use Magic Device, Linguistics and all Knowledges as class skills, along with the Spell-like Ability Summon Monster 1 spells as pocket flankers or backup trap testers. Add a handful of useful spells (especially with the Magical Knack trait) that can be casted while wearing light armor and you've got even more utility.

Synthesis archetype offers utility, allowing you to take really useful evolutions for utility such as Skilled, Climb, Limbs, Swim + Gills, or more natural armor. It does deny you normal armor bonuses without magical backup (good reason to learn Mage Armor!) and your physical stats are deadlocked, so enter melee with caution. Upside, you can ignore most utility evolutions and go Claw/Claw/Bite for a good full attack option that last well into double digit levels.

Vanilla Summoner, on the other hand, gives plenty of options. A small sized, serpentine Eidolon can have up to +22 to Stealth with the Skilled evolution and the Skill Focus feat, making it an amazing scout. Your Eidolon can pick up Knowledge skills and act as a sort of Pokedex for identifying monsters. Skilled x3 or Skilled plus Stat Boost (Int) both work for that. If nothing else, give it mundane skills lime Craft or Perform to have your own magical butler!

I'm currently planning a high-strength bruiser build that will eventually pick up Dragon Deciple and I plan on picking up Summoner to qualify.

Hope this helps!

[Zwordsman]

Other than a caster who has almost no physical ability.. why would anyone else get sythesist? Those stats will beforever done..

Now,if I was playing a blaster sorcerer.. I could see a dip in syth. Gaining a protective shell while you blast etc.

[Under A Bleeding Sun]

There are several strong synth summoner 1 dip builds, though usually they take 2-3 levels from what I've seen, which wasn't that much since PFS banned them pretty quickly.

Outside of that, no, its an awful dip IMO.

[LazarX]

BigDTBone wrote:

I could see a build where you played a synthesist and added evolution points with feats even though you only had one level in summoner.

A Paladin with 1 lvl dip in synthesist summoner would be cool. You would literally be the Avatar of your god.

Ninja'd by 23 seconds.

You can only take the evolution feat once per 5 levels of summoner.

[boring7]

James Langley wrote:

You could dip Synthesist and gain an exosuit. Not a big whoop, but still pretty handy.

Especially if your physical stats are terrible. You might run into a danger where the moment you lose consciousness you drop to -40, but that's part of the adventure, right?

[Loros]

The Synthesist states in the write-up that it uses the eidolon's physical scores and base attack bonus, though.
So if you were a 19th level Paladin who threw on the 'exosuit' then your attack bonus would drop 18 points.

So a dip into that archetype would actually be pretty painful.

[Eltacolibre]

Guess if you want to have some kind an exotic pet and your dm is not letting you have one. Eidolon can basically look like anything, yeah you can have eidoleon who looks like these 80s cartoon mascots.

[boring7]

Loros wrote:

The Synthesist states in the write-up that it uses the eidolon's physical scores and base attack bonus, though.

So if you were a 19th level Paladin who threw on the 'exosuit' then your attack bonus would drop 18 points.

So a dip into that archetype would actually be pretty painful.

I thought you used your own BAB, huh. But even so, you're using it a a power-assist mobility harness for your physically-crippled (almost) full caster. Just, erm, avoid spells that require attack rolls and hope for the best I suppose.

And really, you can do a lot without attack rolls.

[cnetarian]

Loros wrote:

The Synthesist states in the write-up that it uses the eidolon's physical scores and base attack bonus, though.

So if you were a 19th level Paladin who threw on the 'exosuit' then your attack bonus would drop 18 points.

So a dip into that archetype would actually be pretty painful.

no, there was a FAQ or dev post that the eidolon's BAB was added to the BAB from classes other than summoner. cannot recall where it was, but some search fu should turn up the answer.

edit:It was a FAQ

[Subparhiggins]

I read a post where someone mentioned they took one level of summoner as a gunslinger to get a small multiarmed eidolon whos only purpose was to sit on his shoulders in combat, reload his guns, and pass them back to him.

[Bandw2]

i don't really see it, like most primary casters, it's all the way or GET OUT!

[cnetarian]

I could see it as an option if you needed a level of arcane casting for a prestige class, the only option to get magic fang and arcane spell casting or something similar.

[Westphalian_Musketeer]

Making your turns last longer and your character sheet even more confusing?

[Torchlyte]

Is there ever a reason to have an extra body on the field with a pumped UMD?

[Vincent Takeda]

Nothing says fun like handing powerful magical artillery to something with an int of 7.