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What Minor and Major blessing would you recommend for a MoMS-MoSM-Monk/2+Sacred Fist Warpriest/10?
I'm currently Lawful Neutral... but Alignment can always change depending on what I do throughout the campaign. So I guess just pretend Alignment restriction doesn't matter in this case; Though I'd like to stray from anything Evil.
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When I wrote the sacred fist archetype, I had Irori in mind. I'd recommend the Strength blessing most with Healing and Law being my next highest.
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Alignment blessings are the most powerful, but I personally do like using Summons so I stay away from them.
I personally like the War, Travel, and Air blessing the most. War minor is not that powerful, but extra movement is always nice. Travel is good with the minor, and the major with quicken blessing is basically dimensional pounce. Pummeling style negates the need for it though, and makes Air much better. The minor is a great way to make shuriken viable as a sacred fist as you ignore all range penalties and can throw them in melee. The major combined with pummeling charge is terrifying.
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When I wrote the sacred fist archetype, I had Irori in mind. I'd recommend the Strength blessing most with Healing and Law being my next highest.
I truly appreciate your work in writing the Sacred Fist Archetype! I have to say It's my true LOVE for "Monks" now. It overall feels so right! I'll certainly heed your advice as those were most among many that I see as my Top as well; and, well, you Wrote the Sacred Fist and all. :)
Mr. McCoy JR,
May I ask you a question in regards to the Sacred Fist? It's unfortunately less Advice related and more Rules related.
Edit: Actually, this may be more of a Design question, rather than Rules.
Mr. McCoy JR,
May I ask you a question in regards to the Sacred Fist? It's unfortunately less Advice related and more Rules related.Edit: Actually, this may be more of a Design question, rather than Rules.
Sure, ask anything you want.
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PS: How does it feel to have written by far the best WP archetype so far?
Humbling, actually. It just felt like removing the "fighter-ness" of the warpriest and replacing it with "monk-ness" felt like a good idea and seemed almost natural. How much people love it just blows me away.
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Strength is kind of a crap blessing for the sacred fist because the minor gives you an enhancement bonus to your attacks and damage (which incidentally is the most prevalent bonus source and won't stack with basically everything), and the major gives you the ability to ignore armor movement penalties (that full plate you're not wearing as a sacred fist is really hampering you).
Personally Alignment, Destruction, Travel, Luck and Trickery are the winners for me, runner up for Repose if you can find a way to put foes to sleep (quicken blessing and conductive amulet of mighty fist perhaps).
Kudos for the Sacred Fist though, thats what I've been wanting since 3.5 ended. My thanks.
prototype00
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PS: How does it feel to have written by far the best WP archetype so far?Humbling, actually. It just felt like removing the "fighter-ness" of the warpriest and replacing it with "monk-ness" felt like a good idea and seemed almost natural. How much people love it just blows me away.
You did a fantastic job with it. The only reason I'm not going to be playing one soon is my last three characters were Monks.
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Humbling, actually. It just felt like removing the "fighter-ness" of the warpriest and replacing it with "monk-ness" felt like a good idea and seemed almost natural. How much people love it just blows me away.
It's the most interesting archetype or class to come out of the whole book.
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Sure, ask anything you want.Mr. McCoy JR,
May I ask you a question in regards to the Sacred Fist? It's unfortunately less Advice related and more Rules related.Edit: Actually, this may be more of a Design question, rather than Rules.
Thank you, so very much Mr. McCoy Jr!
By no means do I question the integrity of the design, nor would I criticize your work. I ask this question with all due respect.
I noticed in the design of the Sacred Fist, the description of "This ability works like the monk ability of the same name." or "This functions as the monk class feature." was used on two different occasions for both the Flurry of Blows and Ki Pool. When I look at the AC Bonus(su), I notice it doesn't have such a descriptor in it(clearly because it was designed slightly different).
Recently there has been quite a debacle on whether or not the AC Bonus(su) from Sacred Fist would stack with the AC Bonus(ex) granted by the Monk class.
Were these intended to have the potential of stacking; and/or was it merely overlooked to add the two previously mentioned descriptors to this abilities description or just overall?
I respect whatever response is given, as I understand this is kind of a Rules perspective I'm asking from.
(I'm totes fangriling right meow)
I really do absolutely LOVE the Sacred Fist Archetype. I must say, I can feel it was truly designed with much care, consideration, and creativity. This is a very unique creation!
and the major gives you the ability to ignore armor movement penalties (that full plate you're not wearing as a sacred fist is really hampering you).
Shoot. Forgot that part. In that case, I would recommend the Law blessing.
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Recently there has been quite a debacle on whether or not the AC Bonus(su) from Sacred Fist would stack with the AC Bonus(ex) granted by the Monk class.
Were these intended to have the potential of stacking; and/or was it merely overlooked to add the two previously mentioned descriptors to this abilities description or just overall?
If a player in a game I was running asked me if they wanted to play a warpriest/monk, I'd allow the stacking. IMO, you are still giving up some class abilities of the monk when you are taking warpriest levels and the same is true with the reverse. This archetype allows them to harmonize well, in the same way that many PrCs allow for multiclass harmonization.
But that is how I would rule it at my table. I'm not sure how the people at Paizo will decide for PFS.
I'd just like to chime in on this.
A warpriest can call upon the power of his blessings a number of times per day (in any combination) equal to 3 + 1/2 his warpriest level (to a maximum of 13 times per day at 20th level). Each time he calls upon any one of his blessings, it counts against his daily limit.Blessings are really unique because you only need 1 of the four abilities granted to be good all the time.
Strength is VERY strong despite looking poor. Mathy spoilers** spoiler omitted **
That said the law major blessing should be the blessing you usually use at level 10 + because the summoning blessings are just better than all of the other blessings.
As opposed to the Destruction blessing which is +10 to damage? For 1 minute per use (So if you have foreknowledge, it is almost guaranteed for a whole combat instead of a single round?)?
I dunno, I can do math too, and I think Destruction is much better.
prototype00
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Personally, now I find myself hung up on Law, Destruction, Air, Liberation, and Trickery.
I want to have my Minor as something that gives a decent enhancement, and I want my Major to give me something GREAT as a 12th level character in PFS. Probably a Unique ability if possible. At the same time, I don't want to go reaching for any sort of overpowered/powergaming behavior; and it's very important it fits thematically for my character.
I'm just torn D:
For one round (strength) versus 10 rounds (destruction). What are the statistics with that in mind?
Also Gorum is verboten for Monk/Sacred Fists (I think... you can't be a NG Aasimar and MoMS doesn't stack with martial artist).
prototype00
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Recently there has been quite a debacle on whether or not the AC Bonus(su) from Sacred Fist would stack with the AC Bonus(ex) granted by the Monk class.
Were these intended to have the potential of stacking; and/or was it merely overlooked to add the two previously mentioned descriptors to this abilities description or just overall?
If a player in a game I was running asked me if they wanted to play a warpriest/monk, I'd allow the stacking. IMO, you are still giving up some class abilities of the monk when you are taking warpriest levels and the same is true with the reverse. This archetype allows them to harmonize well, in the same way that many PrCs allow for multiclass harmonization.
But that is how I would rule it at my table. I'm not sure how the people at Paizo will decide for PFS.
Thank you so much for the response Mr McCoy Jr! It is greatly appreciated, along with the recommendations for Blessings. You've made my day, my facebook's day, and my twitter's day :D!
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Standard action activation isn't necessarily as bad as you make it out to be, Undone. There are many times wen you are in a situation where you have a good idea there may be something about to happen. You are about to open a door. The party is talking to an NPC that might devolve to combat. You hear the birds stop singing.
You can activate a blessing, and it lasts for a minute, and you get a good number of them, so if it's wasted, it's not a huge deal. Since it's a su ability, there doesn't even have to be any sign you popped the blessing to tip off the NPC.
Have to chime in and also congratulate you on writing an awesome archetype.
However, I was wondering how you feel about the fact that most people deem a 2 level dip in the Master of Many Styles to be an optimal or even necessary part of a sacred fist build?
I was wondering if a stronger focus on styles has been considered in writing the archetype and if the potential for multiclassing was ever taken into account?
Anyway, thank you again for your advice on blessings and the wonderful archetype, will absolutely make and play one soon!
Or Dragon Style and Snake Style. Or in this case getting multiple styles on a flurry attack. Bonus feats (two, three if you take sacred mountain), extra AC and high monk saves makes for an insanely good dip.
Pummeling style is absolutely the most powerful, but there r plenty of other reasons.
Do not get me wrong, I love dipping. But I love it being for flavour as well as mechanical profit.
In the case of the OP it is merely a mechanical choice (not wanting to play lawful) and in this topic it becomes clear that the religious aspect of the character is also open to change as long as it is a power increase.
I think this is unfortunate, because a) I think non-monk and non-lawful sacred fists can offer the more interesting build and story option and b) I feel it will unjustly make people view Sacred Fists through a lens of insane pounce-smack-buff monsters making them biased against what I see as a really well thought out and balanced archetype.
Another problem with the MoMS is that it's not a very good archetype for a straight monk - flurry of blows is a big loss, and in my opinion the archetype doesn't really make up for the loss in accuracy and damage output. However the archetype is spectacularly front-loaded and an amazing dip option.
So you have the concept of martial arts styles, which the monk (and its many variants) is meant to be king of and get access to before other classes (as seen by how the prerequisites favor monks) - but because of MoMS, every other class in the game can dip a single level and use style feats 1-7 levels before the vanilla monk can.
MoMS single-handedly subverts the concept that monks are better at martial arts styles than other classes. In fact, it reverses the concept - if you want to rely on style feats, going straight monk is a really bad idea.
Pummeling style is absolutely the most powerful
Actually, the most powerful style is this.
Have to chime in and also congratulate you on writing an awesome archetype.
However, I was wondering how you feel about the fact that most people deem a 2 level dip in the Master of Many Styles to be an optimal or even necessary part of a sacred fist build?
Thank you. But I confess, I'm not an optimizer. I play a character that strikes my fancy and make decisions based on what I feel sounds fun. And I write the same way. I mean, heck, I once played an abjurer because it seemed like a fun idea at the time. (Coincidentally, that is one of the reasons I wrote the brown fur transmuter arcanist archetype, because I didn't feel that transmuters had enough love.)
So I hope you don't mind if I say that optimization is not my thing.
I couldn't agree more! Fun beats optimising in my book, I played an unarmpred bad touch cleric before there was an archetype which loses armour proficiency and my sorcerers rarely end with the most powerful bloodline or spells.
Still, I like when a class is right on the ball power-wise. Imo Sacred Fist ranks with inquisitor (and others) as balanced and versatile, without becoming too powerful.
@Undone. Fair enough. I have personally used the MoMS dip with Feral Combat training to make a sorcerer Dragon Disciple-Eldritch Knight. Mostly because I found the image of a polymorphed dragon using funky martial arts styles.
Yet this was far from the most powerful build. It was also something which was not accounted 'the standard'. This build for the Sacred Fist with Pummeling Style, to me, is not about flavour or even a cool and innovative mechanical build. It is purely chosen for power purposes and warly access. The Pummeling style route is possible in PFS even with a straight Sacred Fist.
I have a question that should be okay in this topic: does our level in Sacred Fist counts as a monk level for feat purpose? :)
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I have a question that should be okay in this topic: does our level in Sacred Fist counts as a monk level for feat purpose? :)
That's a tricky question. And this answer would only apply for my gaming table.
If it did count as monk levels, then the archetype would have effectively removed "fighter" from the hybrid class description and replaced it with monk. This would mean that you can't multiclass with monk, so no MoMS.
The alternative being that you can multiclass with monk, but the warpriest levels do not count as monk levels.
So I'd leave that one up to the player, letting him/her have an informed choice.
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Actually they took the multiclassing restriction out of the ACG in the end. They just added that if there are redundant abilities between the parent classes and the hybrid class, they don't stack.
prototype00
I have a question that should be okay in this topic: does our level in Sacred Fist counts as a monk level for feat purpose? :)That's a tricky question. And this answer would only apply for my gaming table.
If it did count as monk levels, then the archetype would have effectively removed "fighter" from the hybrid class description and replaced it with monk. This would mean that you can't multiclass with monk, so no MoMS.
The alternative being that you can multiclass with monk, but the warpriest levels do not count as monk levels.
So I'd leave that one up to the player, letting him/her have an informed choice.
My question was only for the Bonu Feat part of the Original Warpriest. Can we switch figther and monk in the text? : "Finally, for the purposes of these feats,
the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum numberof fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest
level as his fighter level."
I don't like multiclassing and my DM rarely allows it so it's a way for me to have the monks feats without multiclassing.