Warpriest guide. Fight for your god.


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Piranha Strike does work with Unarmed Strike. The concept still has problems with too many Swift actions. Until Combat Style Master at 9th level you must spend a swift action to enter a style, spend a swift action to enter another style, spend a swift action to Fervor Divine Favor, and spend a reaction/swift action to use Snake Fang. With only 1 swift action a turn the concept isn't even close to viable.


Bigguyinblack wrote:
Piranha Strike does work with Unarmed Strike. The concept still has problems with too many Swift actions. Until Combat Style Master at 9th level you must spend a swift action to enter a style, spend a swift action to enter another style, spend a swift action to Fervor Divine Favor, and spend a reaction/swift action to use Snake Fang. With only 1 swift action a turn the concept isn't even close to viable.

You only need snake style early. You're no more swift gated than the pummeling monk.


So once you get combat style master you begin combat with Panther Style, spend your swift action to Fervor Divine Favor, Use your move action to walk past all of the enemies and hope the GM takes the AOOs at which point you get free attack against each of the attacks. Correct? And you are right. Against any enemy with an Int above animal the GM will just stop taking the AOOs. Honestly if you won't have the time to use Snake Fang later on why not just start with Panther Style/Claw? You won't even have to buy Combat reflexes because Panther Claw gives you the extra attacks as part of the feat and MoMS waives the requirements.


Bigguyinblack wrote:
So once you get combat style master you begin combat with Panther Style, spend your swift action to Fervor Divine Favor, Use your move action to walk past all of the enemies and hope the GM takes the AOOs at which point you get free attack against each of the attacks. Correct? And you are right. Against any enemy with an Int above animal the GM will just stop taking the AOOs. Honestly if you won't have the time to use Snake Fang later on why not just start with Panther Style/Claw? You won't even have to buy Combat reflexes because Panther Claw gives you the extra attacks as part of the feat and MoMS waives the requirements.

Because snake fang is better than having 5 other style feats. Enemies have to attack you or you kill them. They will probably miss with mage armor wands and reasonable AC stuff and you get double free attacks. If they would be in real danger of hitting you just use riposte.

Panther style is the weaker filler style which just adds to your already good build. I'm sure with some time you could come up with an even better build than this one. Snake's fang is the core feat. you can skip more or less the rest of the build after it.


Undone,

Would you be kind enough to post a brief summary of what's been ruled on the SF for where?

As I've followed this thread, I've seen comments that PFS banned pummeling strike, that the double AC bonus from monk dip is out and that monk/SF doesn't stack for flurry.

A single reference source would be super useful, and I'm having trouble finding each specific reference.

I'm working on builds for RA and the constant rulings are forcing revisions.


Pummeling Strike banned http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources Scroll down to Advanced Class Guide feats.

AC not stacking http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk

And Flurry doesn't stack because it is 2 different classes with the same ability and nothing in Sacred Fist says they stack. So Monk has a Flurry and Sacred Fist has a Flurry but never the twain shall meet.

Scarab Sages

I really don't agree with flurry not stacking. You make a Flurry of blows attack. There is no such thing as Monk flurry of blows or Sacred fist flurry of blows. There is just a flurry of blows attack. When you make your flurry, you follow the rules for a flurry. Your BAB is your Monk or WP level + Bab from non-monk or WP level. If you have flurry from two sources and are making a FLurry of Blows, nothing stops you from treating your levels in both classes as BAB, especially since at the time of the FAQ that clarified your BAB is your monk level + non monk classes there was no other class that offered flurry of blows.

You would still need 8th level in one class onle for the second off hand attack, and 15th for the third, but the BAB increases stack.


Bigguyinblack wrote:

Pummeling Strike banned http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources Scroll down to Advanced Class Guide feats.

AC not stacking http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk

And Flurry doesn't stack because it is 2 different classes with the same ability and nothing in Sacred Fist says they stack. So Monk has a Flurry and Sacred Fist has a Flurry but never the twain shall meet.

This. There's a minor chance we'll get back pummeling strike in society given the large thread but AC doesn't stack (Not a huge deal, just use mage armor wands.) and flurry doesn't stack although it's still unclear to me how ZA flurry with SF flurry works. I am not sure if you can flurry with a bow as a ZA/SF. I think given the ruling it probably doesn't work but I'm not sure.


Cookies for both of you! Thanks!


Hey Undone, loved the guide, thanks! One correction

Guide wrote:
Brilliant energy - This may be the only quality over a +1 that I consistently recommend if you can buy. It on ignores between 5-25 points of armor or natural armor. If you can afford this EVER a +1 Brilliant energy weapon is ideal and the best possible choice for a weapon enhancement. Con's Expensive as heck that’s really the only drawback.

...sounded very saucy but it turns out this IS too good to be true:

SRD wrote:
A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, or objects.

Bypassing armor is nice, but not nearly as nice as bypassing natural armor would've been. As is I'm inclined to think this is Red or Orange at best.


So. Crusader's Flurry.

Flurrying with your deity's favored weapon is, in theory, awesome. And the note made earlier that the Sacred Fist lacks the cannot-flurry-in-armor note is also awesome. So I decided to put the Monk hate aside and make a Sacred Fist who flurried with his longsword (or whatever, it wound up as a Glaive) while mocking your attacks with his heavy armor...

And I failed miserably.

Outside of an irritatingly small number of gods (who tend to have crappy domains), the Sacred Fist just doesn't have the weapon proficiencies needed to set up Crusader's Flurry without a double-feat-tax (one for WP, one for Weapon Focus, then you get Flurry). In and of itself that's viable... but adding in the three feat tax for Fullplate screws it.

Which pushed me to Plan B, That Which I Hate Almost As Much As Monks: dipping. This is what I came up with:

Human Warpriest
Str: 16+2
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

1: Fighter (Mutation Warrior?), Weapon Focus: Glaive, Power Attack, Improved Initiative
2: Sacred Fist of Shelyn (Luck+Good)
3: Sacred Fist, Pushing Assault
4: Sacred Fist
5: Sacred Fist, Crusader's Flurry
6: Sacred Fist
7: Sacred Fist, Snake Style, Combat Reflexes, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
8: Sacred Fist
9: Sacred Fist, Augmented Summons
10: Sacred Fist
11: Sacred Fist, Quicken Blessing (Battle Companion)
12: Sacred Fist
13: Sacred Fist, Evolved Summons, Snake Sidewind, Snake Fang

I'm frankly not a fan of any of the Styles I've come across. What with the heavy armor Snake Style will be a rarity and is more for preventing Touch-based opponents. Sidewind/Fang are as much filler as anything else, to be honest.

The alternative is to drop the Fighter dip and go straight Sacred Fist. This will involve sacrificing Fullplate, but it can work:

Human Warpriest
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 14+2
Cha: 8

1: Sacred Fist of Shelyn (Luck+Good), Toughness, Martial Weapon Proficiency: Glaive
2: Sacred Fist
3: Sacred Fist, Weapon Focus: Glaive
4: Sacred Fist
5: Sacred Fist, Crusader's Flurry
6: Sacred Fist, Snake Style, Power Attack
7: Sacred Fist, Pushing Assault
8: Sacred Fist
9: Sacred Fist, Combat Reflexes
10: Sacred Fist
11: Sacred Fist, Quicken Blessing (Battle Companion)
12: Sacred Fist, Snake Sidewind, Snake Fang
13: Sacred Fist, Lunge

Both of these builds seem... rife with problems. The first one will never max its Battle Companion, is always a level behind in spells, and has a lot of less-than-useful feats due to the necessity to take a Style, which kind of bites when you're weapon-centric (after a point the AoOs don't really do much unless you invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fist). The second has the same issues with the Styles, paired with being obnoxiously MAD and being slow to come online.

On the flip side, Flurry of Blows with a two-handed (reach) weapon. I noticed a fair bit of talk earlier in this thread about how Sacred Fists could make effective use of Crusader's Flurry... so what am I missing, exactly?

I also pieced together a bog-standard Warpriest of Calistria

Human Warpriest
Str: 9
Dex: 16+2
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

1: Luck+Trickery Blessings, Weapon Finesse, Slashing Grace (Whip)
3: Whip Mastery, Serpent Lash
5: Combat Expertise
6: Improved Whip Mastery, Combat Reflexes
7: Improved Trip
9: Greater Whip Mastery, Greater Trip
11: Greater Serpent Lash
12: Pin Down, Weapon Specialization (Whip)
13: Defiant Luck

I honestly like this setup much more than the Sacred Fists, and I didn't think I would. It starts off kind of slow, but at level 3 it gets good by throwing out trips and at 6-7 it turns into an AoO beast. Defiant Luck is a feat I'm really starting to like for preventing the nastiest instances of rocket tag; I'd seriously consider taking Inexplicable Luck at level 15 too (probably alongside Greater Weapon Focus). So, thoughts on this build as well as the others?


I didn't see much difficulty in finding a useful deity to work for an armoured sacred fist.

I'm actually really happy with the result of my experiment.

Nestor

I do agree that the style feats are hard to put to good use though.


gyrfalcon wrote:


Bypassing armor is nice, but not nearly as nice as bypassing natural armor would've been. As is I'm inclined to think this is Red or Orange at best.

Wow I was sure in 3.5 it bypassed natural. I'll change it. That said I still stand by a firm green rating at 16th. A +5 full plate is 14 armor. A +5 chainshirt is +9. Even at +8 to hit of a +4 chainshirt this is an INCREDIBLE upgrade. I do agree this reduces the ability one color though.

Quote:

So. Crusader's Flurry.

Flurrying with your deity's favored weapon is, in theory, awesome. And the note made earlier that the Sacred Fist lacks the cannot-flurry-in-armor note is also awesome. So I decided to put the Monk hate aside and make a Sacred Fist who flurried with his longsword (or whatever, it wound up as a Glaive) while mocking your attacks with his heavy armor...

So let's think about this for a moment.

1) You need prof with martial weapons.
2) You need prof with heavy armor.

Which classes do the above.

Realistically we have fighter, paladin, and samurai.

Mutagen fighter isn't bad.
being a FOOLISH SAMURAI would be fun but probably not optimal.
Being an int dump paladin on the other hand... it gives you a way to bypass nearly all DR in a sticky situation and small amounts of bonus hit/damage.

Mutagen Fighter is probably the best generic use though.

As to deities unfortunately the absolute best deity for the above is...[url="http://www.archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Baphomet"]Our resident lord of Minotaur's[url]

The animal blessing's improved progression along side the good favored weapon make him ideal for the above builds.

And as to combat styles there are really not many good ones at all. Only a few for a few builds of monk of many styles. Some are good though.

The problem is the best build requires you to be either CE or CN worshiping a CE deity. Animal and strength is an incredible domain choice.

Scarab Sages

I'd say Fumeiyoshi works well for a reach crusader's flurry sacred fist. You get a reach weapon with a x4 crit, Death, Destruction, Evil, Repose, and war blessings. And true neutral (or lawful evil) is generally more forgiving to play than CN or CE.


The Fighter dip worked for solving the core problem. But it sets up its own follow-up problems (mostly making the Style work) and I still have no effective way that I can figure to make the Styles work.

*Shrug* On the deity end I might have screwed myself by deciding I wanted to go for Luck before anything else. But Luck honestly seems like the best blessing to use both minor and major.

I'm not a huge fan of Baphomet though. Shelyn offers the same Favored Weapon. I do see the appeal of Animal for a WP taking a dip though... worth considering, though giving up Luck is hard. Something to ponder at least.

Scarab Sages

While we're at it, a swashbuckler dip works well for a dex-based crusader's flurry build. Inspired blade will give you some panache, deeds, and easy access to fencing grace, and Cayden has a great weapon if non-reach.


Imbicatus wrote:
While we're at it, a swashbuckler dip works well for a dex-based crusader's flurry build. Inspired blade will give you some panache, deeds, and easy access to fencing grace, and Cayden has a great weapon if non-reach.

There is a 1 level swashbuckler (rapier archetype) SF Drunk god of awesome build.


I suppose how much armor you're facing changes a lot from game to game. I feel like by the time I reach high levels (when I can afford a +4 amulet) I rarely do, but if one did I agree it's a huge effect. (On the otherhand, if you're facing lots of undead you have to take your 64000GP amulet off to be able to hit at all.)

Anyway, great guide. I'm building a L16 Sacred Fist and getting a ton of great ideas from it. Thanks for taking the time to write it!


gyrfalcon wrote:

I suppose how much armor you're facing changes a lot from game to game. I feel like by the time I reach high levels (when I can afford a +4 amulet) I rarely do, but if one did I agree it's a huge effect. (On the otherhand, if you're facing lots of undead you have to take your 64000GP amulet off to be able to hit at all.)

Anyway, great guide. I'm building a L16 Sacred Fist and getting a ton of great ideas from it. Thanks for taking the time to write it!

Cool!

Let us know how it turns out.

I strongly recommend if starting a fresh 16 (Not leveling up) go spell perfection (Blood crow strike) its bananas.

The WP and SF fall off a little at high levels (anything without 9th level magic does) but I'd think that the SF falls off less than others.


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Hey Undone (& gang), since you asked, here's a draft of Iko Ilue, the Crashing Tempest. He's a Human (Garundi) Sacred Fist of Hei Feng, a God of Sea and Storm, who grants access to Air and Destruction (amongst others). Here are my ideas so far as to what to purchase. Note that some items are listed with a quantity (and total cost) of 0 because I'm considering them but they aren't part of the current plan.

The fluff concept is that he was a ship's boy on an expedition to the legendary continent of Sarusan. As the ship approached Sarusan it was destroyed by a mighty storm which killed the entire crew...except Iko who Hei Feng claimed that day as his vassal-- saving his life in exchange for binding him into service. Since then he's grown to be Hei Feng's greatest hand in Golarion, fighting to protect the balance of nature and reminding Good and Evil alike that all will one day crumble under the force of wind and sea.

He'll start at 16th level and the campaign I'm building him for will consist of The Moonscar, followed by The Witchwar Legacy.

My goal with him is to build a good, interesting, flexible front-liner (with a minor as a support caster). I often try to optimize my builds a fair bit...and I'm trying to do a little less so this time because the meta-purpose of this campaign is to try to make high level play work (which we haven't really accomplished so far) and so I've tried to build him well without too much wackiness. For instance, I know he could be more powerful with a couple levels of monk, but I've decided against multiclassing, at least for now.

That said, I welcome any and all feedback/suggestions...particularly things folks would do to make him more *interesting*, or *flexible*. More powerful is fine, but so is less powerful, if it's interesting.

Note: I considered blood claw strike + spell perfection -- and it certainly adds some flavorful utility to him -- but I'm concerned that (even with a 22 WIS) Spell Resistance will be a big deal in high level play so I'd need to take spell penetration...and still miss beating it a lot. Right now I'm inclined to keep his casting to buffs/utility (and hope that between the Air Blessing + Air Walk he can always get to foes, even flying ones)...but feel free to suggest otherwise.

Note also: as I've built him, there are plenty of filler feats, so feel free to suggest something that would need many of those feats.

-------

Separately, a few notes for the guide, as I build him:
- It's probably worth calling out that (like all Divine casters) the Warpriest doesn't need to prepare all their spells at once. I just looked it up to confirm it & others might as well.
- Improved Crit is INSANE with Pommeling Strike. (Assuming 7 hits/round, his chance of a crit threat goes from 30% to 52%! If he's hasted and taking a ki strike for 9 hits/round, his crit threat chance rises from 47% to 61%!!) In other words, Pommeling Strike takes monks from the worst crits to the (I suspect) the best of any weapon/class...which in turn means any feat, item, etc that triggers off of a crit will be way better for a Pommeling Striker.

[For folks who want the math on that, chance of a crit threat with Pommeling strike == 1 - (c^s), where c=chance that a given strike *isn't* a crit threat & s=the number of strikes / round. In other words, the chance of rolling 20 on at least one of 7 strikes = 1 - (.95^7) = 1 - 0.698 = 30.1%, and with Improved Crit feat it becomes 1 -(.9^7) = 52.2%]

(Did I mention that not optimizing too much is hard for me? Yeah, might well be dropping the Improved Crit...we'll see.)


Let's start off.

1) You do not have 9th level magic. You will not break a good GM.

2) You do not have an alignment blessing. It's definitively stronger to have one but this is a good way to scale it back if you're worried.

3) Not multiclassing may actually be stronger after level 12(the pummeling charge level).

4) I'm not entirely sure about your spells, although they are not bad.

5) I know about the improved crit issue. If you want to go to the powerful end take staggering critical over GWF. Staggered is a doozy for casters and full attackers alike.

6) Spell perfection taking dazing(Echoing if banned), quicken, and piercing spell for prereqs along side SP/GSP lets you have an effective +29 to your caster level checks alongside an otherworldly kimono makes you bypass SR vs a pit fiend on a -3. Allowing you to cut GSP. Keep in mind Spell perfection doubles spell penetration.

7) Step up, Following Step, and Step up and strike are interesting for your build (Normally the multiclass build has too many feats used) it gives you the ever advancing brawler that never backs down.

8) I strongly recommend boots of feather step over +10 base land speed. Both are invalidated vs the air blessing though so this is a minor point.

9) Relax on the optimization worries. Either the GM is good enough or he's not. The problem with high levels is not the rocket tagging damage (That's actually easily solved). It's world breaking magic. (Why do I need to stop them from destroying the city? Wizy Mc Wizington can reconstruct the city in a day.) If you're too strong in combat it's the GM who likely needs to step up. Killing 1 thing a turn with melee attacks is fine.


Undone, I totally appreciate the feedback, and am leaning toward the Step Up & Strike chain for this character. Thanks!


I am personally still trying to come up with a PFS legal no dip SF build. I'm reluctantly and somewhat sadly looking at dragon style.

There doesn't seem to be a way pre 10 to make a full attack on turn 1 without pummeling charge which means you have no damage on turn 1. There is an upside that potentially (Unclear, see rules thread) you get -1/+3 power attack with dragon style now which would help a TON.

This is a rough scratch up and I'd like help before I add it to the guide.

Spoiler:

Human Sacred fist of Gorum
CN

STR: 18
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 7
WIS: 14
CHA: 12

Blessings: Strength, Destruction
Traits: Fate's Favored, Dangerously curious, If drawbacks are allowed (Unsure) paranoid for reactionary or +1 UAS damage. Wands enable mage armor wands.

Feats:
H) Pummeling style <Filler style required for Combat style master>
1) Weapon Focus (UAS)
3) Power attack
5) I init
6B) Dragon Style, H) Dragon's Ferocity
7) ?
9) Combat style master
11) Quicken blessing (Destruction)

I have zero idea of how to make the dragon style charger and am thinking that the defensive dexterity build might actually be better. That would make me feel unfortunate because I dislike it compared to the good at level 1 str build.

Scarab Sages

Dragon style doesn't allow a 1:3 power attack even after the changes to Dragon Ferocity. An unarmed strike is not a two handed weapon, a one handed weapon wielded with two hands, or a primary natural attack.

It is treated as a natural weapon for effects that enhance natural weapons, but it still isn't actually a natural weapon, it isn't primary or secondary, and it doesn't qualify for the 1:3 power attack.

That said, it isn't overpowered to allow 1:3 power attack with dragon style, and it's a fine house rule. But if you are going to try to use the 1:3 power attack in PFS, expect heavy table variation.


Imbicatus wrote:

Dragon style doesn't allow a 1:3 power attack even after the changes to Dragon Ferocity. An unarmed strike is not a two handed weapon, a one handed weapon wielded with two hands, or a primary natural attack.

It is treated as a natural weapon for effects that enhance natural weapons, but it still isn't actually a natural weapon, it isn't primary or secondary, and it doesn't qualify for the 1:3 power attack.

That said, it isn't overpowered to allow 1:3 power attack with dragon style, and it's a fine house rule. But if you are going to try to use the 1:3 power attack in PFS, expect heavy table variation.

I'd be using -1/+2.

My point is while I'm sure there are ways to do the build without pummeling charge but I spent most of my time working on the charge and snake fang builds.


Pummeling Charge has been unbanned in PFS!

Scarab Sages

Morgoon wrote:
Pummeling Charge has been unbanned in PFS!

Yes, but the earliest a single class sacred fist can get access to it is at level 12.


Imbicatus wrote:
Morgoon wrote:
Pummeling Charge has been unbanned in PFS!
Yes, but the earliest a single class sacred fist can get access to it is at level 12.

I will be using the listed build until they change MoMS and offer a rebuild to those with the archetype as per the standard PFS rules.

MoMS fuse style with dragon style is stronger either way thanks to the ability to pummeling dragon style attack.

I'm still going to look for a straight sacred fist build. It's stronger at level 12+ if you start/go that high.


With Pummeling Charge unbanned I'm looking at your dip build again. As you mentioned it gets choked on swift actions unless the combat goes long so I'm going to build under the assumption that most fights last 3 rounds or so. So for example quickened Blessing to summon isn't likely to come up. I don't like Duel stat human and don't have any race boons so that leaves Dwarf or Half-Orc.

Race Half-Orc LG worshiper of Kurgess
Str 16 (18)
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 16
Chr 7
Favored Class bonus Human Warpriest Gain 1/6 of a new bonus combat feat. (My local GMs agree that the extra feat works as one of the Warpriests bonus feats)
Traits: Fate's favored, Magical Knack (Warpriest)
Racial traits: Sacred Tattoo (+1 Luck bonus to saves), Shaman's Apprentice (Endurance feat replaces Intimidating)
Blessings: Luck & Travel
The rest would follow your guide but with a few exceptions. I would drop Ki Channel because I think I will have enough Ki. And I would drop Quicken Blessing. Combined with the Favored Class bonus that is 3 feats to choose. You can't go wrong with Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike but can you think of what the other 2 feats should be?

Scarab Sages

Extra Traits to pick up Quain Martial Artist and Reactionary. And then Belier's Bite.


Quote:
And then Belier's Bite.

What in the 9 hells is this feat doing. It's beyond WHAT.

My take on PFS assuming you stop at 11.

Spoiler:
Warpriest Sacred Fist 1: Pummeling Style, Improved unarmed strike
Master of Many styles 1: Pummeling Charge
Warpriest Sacred Fist 2: Power attack
Warpriest Sacred Fist 3:
Warpriest Sacred Fist 4: Weapon focus
Warpriest Sacred Fist 5:
Warpriest Sacred Fist 6: Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity <HBF Weapon spec IF LEGAL>
Warpriest Sacred Fist 7:
Warpriest Sacred Fist 8: Combat style master
Warpriest Sacred Fist 9:
Warpriest Sacred Fist 10: Horn of the Criosphinx

Because Weapon spec is probably better than additional traits.


Unfortunately I'm pretty sure the favored class bonus feat would have to stick to the Sacred Fist bonus feat rules. So it would have to be a style. But that is fine because you can take Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity as both of your bonus feats and whatever you want as your 7th level feat. Not Weapon Specialization though. Belier's Bite actually looks better then Power Attack early on so it could be taken at 3rd level and Power Attack could be bumped to 7th.


Undone wrote:
Quote:
And then Belier's Bite.

What in the 9 hells is this feat doing. It's beyond WHAT.

My take on PFS assuming you stop at 11.

** spoiler omitted **
Because Weapon spec is probably better than additional traits.

i dont think horn works anymore with the recent faq on dragon ferocity:

Quote:
No, Dragon Ferocity should read "While using Dragon Style, increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus, to a total of twice your Strength bonus on the first attack and 1-1/2 your Strength bonus on the other attacks" and Tiger Claws should read "If you use Power Attack in conjunction with this attack, increase your Strength bonus on one of the damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus, normally to a total of 1-1/2 your Strength bonus." These changes will be reflected in future errata.

both increase the first hit to 2x str


Have you considered a trip/disarm build for a Warpriest? There are two gods that give proficiency with whips and with the combat feats, you can take a number of the trip, serpant lash, and disarm feats pretty easily.


Bigguyinblack wrote:
With the rule against stacking bonuses would it be better to only use Horn of the Criosphinx and switch the Dragon chain for something different?

the way i'm reading all those faqs it comes down to:

dragon ferocity+dragon style:
2x str on the first attack, 1.5x str on the rest, need combat style msater to have both up in the first round of combat, usable outside of charge, can charge through difficult terrain and allies

horn:
2x str only on charge

assuming you need 2 rounds to kill a mob, and something like 5 attacks/round:
with horn that is 10x str on first round and 5x str on second for 15x str
with dragon it is 8x str on first round and 8x str on second for 16x str
dragon also makes it much easier to charge on that first round

so, it seems like dragon is more useful overall imo, but also more feat expensive (3vs1) they both come online in the same level. they dont stack with each other.

Scarab Sages

MrNastyButler wrote:
Have you considered a trip/disarm build for a Warpriest? There are two gods that give proficiency with whips and with the combat feats, you can take a number of the trip, serpant lash, and disarm feats pretty easily.

It's not a bad control build if you go Str Based. Build it like a normal reach build, but add in whip mastery. You do not want to go dex based or serpent lash though. Even with the WP bonus feats, you don't have enough feats to waste two into finesse and slashing grace. As a bonus, STR-based whip build will be very defensive with heavy armor and shield providing a great ac.

Damage suffers from a normal reach build as you have a terrible crit profile and no two hand str bonus or power attack, but you have more reach and a shield.


shroudb wrote:
Bigguyinblack wrote:
With the rule against stacking bonuses would it be better to only use Horn of the Criosphinx and switch the Dragon chain for something different?

the way i'm reading all those faqs it comes down to:

dragon ferocity+dragon style:
2x str on the first attack, 1.5x str on the rest, need combat style msater to have both up in the first round of combat, usable outside of charge, can charge through difficult terrain and allies

horn:
2x str only on charge

assuming you need 2 rounds to kill a mob, and something like 5 attacks/round:
with horn that is 10x str on first round and 5x str on second for 15x str
with dragon it is 8x str on first round and 8x str on second for 16x str
dragon also makes it much easier to charge on that first round

so, it seems like dragon is more useful overall imo, but also more feat expensive (3vs1) they both come online in the same level. they dont stack with each other.

That makes me sad panda all over the floor.


Hmm, well, I put the question to Mark Seifter and he had this to say:

Quote:
It looks to me like nothing changed. Just as before, it still definitely doesn't forth with Dragon Style's increase to 1.5, and it may or may not work with Ferocity depending on order of operations. So it'll depend on the GM's ruling of order of operations.

So if it worked to give you 2.5x Str to all attacks in the past, it will work to give you 2.5x Str even now.

prototype00


prototype00 wrote:

Hmm, well, I put the question to Mark Seifter and he had this to say:

Quote:
It looks to me like nothing changed. Just as before, it still definitely doesn't forth with Dragon Style's increase to 1.5, and it may or may not work with Ferocity depending on order of operations. So it'll depend on the GM's ruling of order of operations.

So if it worked to give you 2.5x Str to all attacks in the past, it will work to give you 2.5x Str even now.

prototype00

It's not the way it reads to me but whatever he says is RAW so...

Quote:
2x str on the first attack, 1.5x str on the rest, need combat style msater to have both up in the first round of combat, usable outside of charge, can charge through difficult terrain and allies

As a note combat style master is a core critical feat even if you don't splash MoMS. You are able to fervor and style feat in the same turn making it character critical regardless of level.


@Undone, thanks for making a guide to help us wade through all the warpriest options!

You've mentioned once or twice that post level 12 a non dip SF was superior to a MoMS dip. Is that correct?

I was wondering, if you knew you were going past 12 would it be worth it...and would it be possible, to cheat for a bit with the travel blessing?

What I'm asking is, if you absolutely need to close in with a full attack, could you burn a fervor and swift action dimensional hop?

Scarab Sages

malaketh wrote:

@Undone, thanks for making a guide to help us wade through all the warpriest options!

You've mentioned once or twice that post level 12 a non dip SF was superior to a MoMS dip. Is that correct?

I was wondering, if you knew you were going past 12 would it be worth it...and would it be possible, to cheat for a bit with the travel blessing?

What I'm asking is, if you absolutely need to close in with a full attack, could you burn a fervor and swift action dimensional hop?

You can't use fervor to enhance a blessing. You can take quicken blessing though. Use two uses of blessings for dimensional pounce.


Imbicatus wrote:


You can't use fervor to enhance a blessing. You can take quicken blessing though. Use two uses of blessings for dimensional pounce.

Ooops!! I think that's what I meant. Thank you. Now the question is....is it worth fully going SF using that tactic until level 12? I guess your only waiting one more level at that point.

Oh well, the purist in me that wants straight SF is battling the min maxed in me that says take MoMS fool!!


MrNastyButler wrote:
Have you considered a trip/disarm build for a Warpriest? There are two gods that give proficiency with whips and with the combat feats, you can take a number of the trip, serpant lash, and disarm feats pretty easily.

Warpriest can also do impressive damage with a whip, with Sacred Weapon damage, buffs, the vicious enchantment, etc. (I'm also considering a Whirlwind Attack whip build after seeing what someone earlier in the thread posted.)

Whip Warpriest of Calistria:

Warpriest of Calistria
strength 18, dexterity 12, constitution 10, intelligence 13, wisdom 14, charisma 10
traits: Fate’s Favored, (?)
Blessings: Trickery, Luck
1: Weapon Focus (whip), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
3: Whip Mastery, Power Attack
5: Combat Reflexes
6: Improved Whip Mastery, Greater Trip (human FCB)
7: (?)
9: Weapon Specialization (whip), (?)

Spells:
1st: Bless, Magic Weapon
2nd: Bull's Strength, Weapon of Awe
3rd: Channel Vigor, Archon's Aura, Prayer


So straight sacred fist is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than a regular sacred fist +MOMS before 10, at 12 straight sacred fist is arguably stronger. The style fusion is good but at level 12 you should kill every single target in 1 full attack if using the air major blessing. (Average DPR vs level+3 is enough to kill on a charge)

The problem is that the above mentioned tactic is not possible until 11th level(quicken blessing). At 10th level you also get a cheat in the form of blood crow strike which helps. The problem is going straight sacred fist robs you of pummeling charge. When you aren't flurrying your damage is just laughable compared to the real damage threats.

If you're permitted to take MoMS and starting pre 10th multiclass.

If you're going to do damage and not multiclass don't go pummeling charge. Go with crusaders flurry build. Gorum is a good choice. That way you can use a two hander and your style feat is basically up to you.

ON ANOTHER TOPIC

I'm looking at making a myriad style, snake style 9 SF 2 MoMS dex based build which has half a dozen AOO's a turn.

Scarab Sages

By the way, you don't need to worship Calistoga, Dahak, or that empyreal lord who has favored weapon whip. Half-Orcs once again prove they are the best race for Warpriests by having proficency as an alternate racial trait.


Undone wrote:


ON ANOTHER TOPIC

I'm looking at making a myriad style, snake style 9 SF 2 MoMS dex based build which has half a dozen AOO's a turn.

I really like your AoO rough build you did above. That takes away the need to full attack as you are attacking ALL THE TIME!!! Based almost exactly on that build with a couple changes,how does this one look. We rolled our stats:

Human SF/MoMS of Ragathiel
STR: 12
DEX: 17
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 16
CHA: 11
Traits: Magical knack, fate's favored.
Blessings: Good, destruction
Feats
Sacred fist 1SF) IUAS, Weapon Finesse, Combat reflexes
Sacred fist 2SF) None
Monk of many styles 1 2SF 1MOMS) Snake style, Snake fang
Sacred fist 3SF 1MOMS) None
Sacred fist 4SF 1MOMS) Piranha Strike
Sacred fist 5SF 1MOMS) None
Sacred fist 6SF 1MOMS) Panther style, Panther claw
Sacred fist 7SF 1MOMS)
Sacred fist 8SF 1MOMS) combat style master
Sacred fist 9SF 1MOMS)
Sacred fist 10SF 1MOMS) quicken blessing


Quote:
I really like your AoO rough build you did above. That takes away the need to full attack as you are attacking ALL THE TIME!!! Based almost exactly on that build with a couple changes,how does this one look. We rolled our stats:

While the above build is good I may make a suggestion.

Spoiler:

Sacred fist 1SF) IUAS, Weapon Finesse, Combat reflexes
Sacred fist 2SF) None
Monk of many styles 1 <KATA MONK> 2SF 1MOMS) Snake style, Snake fang
Sacred fist 3SF 1MOMS) None
Sacred fist 4SF 1MOMS) Piranha Strike
Sacred fist 5SF 1MOMS) None
Sacred fist 6SF 1MOMS) Panther style, <Panther claw HUMAN BONUS FEAT> Extra Panache
Sacred fist 7SF 1MOMS)
Sacred fist 8SF 1MOMS) combat style master
Sacred fist 9SF 1MOMS)
Sacred fist 10SF 1MOMS) quicken blessing

Along with fortuitous and agile you do good damage and have incredible layered defensive abilities. At the cost of some up front damage you do incredible sustained damage.

The problem with the build is it simply is garbage until you get an agile AoMF.


Undone wrote:

The problem with the build is it simply is garbage until you get an agile AoMF.

Garbage as in your damage output? But he would have the bonus 1d6 from good and the destruction bonus as well. Granted that is not continuous but better than nothing until he can get the amulet.


Quote:
Garbage as in your damage output? But he would have the bonus 1d6 from good and the destruction bonus as well. Granted that is not continuous but better than nothing until he can get the amulet.

Yes. Your whopping 1d6+1 or 1d6+0 if you don't go 12 str (I wouldn't recommend it, I'd go 12 int for UMD) at most 2d6+1 or +2 in optimal circumstances at level 1 with only 2 more points at level 2 with fervored divine favor. The damage to kill something just isn't there for several levels. Once you get your amulet and piranha strike your damage is pretty darn decent. The problem is 1d6 just doesn't kill anything at level 3. So it's a real big deal for PFS if you ever play up or have to actually play all 9 adventures without your AOMF.

That said I'm actually thinking some iteration of the above AOO build is actually SUPERIOR to the pummeling build but it takes a little bit to ramp up to that point.

Scarab Sages

The problem with the AoO build is that it's dependent on creatures actually taking an AoO against you when you provoke. Once you do it a few times, some GMs stop taking the bait.

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