Warpriest guide. Fight for your god.


Advice

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Captain Zoom wrote:


Again, we're just going to have to disagree because we weight things differently. I really don't care if the Law Blessing has lots of different stuff you can summon. Good has enough and they're good enough, and you only summon one at a time, and I'll probably get more use out of the minor blessing as most of the campaign is going to take place at levels 1-10, or 1-12 if you take a couple of levels of MoMS.

A fair enough point. I tend to think of blessings like this. Between your two blessings you need 1 good ability for minor blessings and 1 good blessing for major blessings. Since you don't get a massive blessing pool. If you go MoMS I recommend less the scaling ones and more the +2 to hit. For reference based on math +2 to hit does more DPR than +4 damage if you average 40 damage (Not a hard feat by the level destruction does +4) and is almost always better than +3. Bonuses to hit are often underrated in terms of DPR.

Captain Zoom wrote:


And I don't weigh the action economy the same as you. Yes, a standard action power has a lessened utility over a swift action (in that aspect), but the swift action power eats your swift action every round, round after round, whereas the standard action power lasts a full minute AND (despite you disregarding it) can be put up before combat if you have warning. Pathfinder doesn't let you use Move or Standard actions as swifts, so you also become very Swift Action challenged using the Strength Blessing.

Fair enough. I should note that in the guide I take the view that you might be able to prebuff. It's just my not my personal experience that you will be able to do so frequently. That's why I value action economy so high.

Captain Zoom wrote:


And I don't think you have to assume you're going to be caught unawares, just as I don't assume you can always buff ahead of time. I prefer a more balanced real-world approach where you look at typical game encounters.

Fair point. I'd say It's either 70-30 or 50/50 in the case of paranoid experienced adventurers.

Captain Zoom wrote:


I'm not sure what your last sentence is in reference to. The point of the Sacred Fist is not to pummel charge, it's a holy unarmed combatant. I'm guessing you mean the point of the Sacred Fist build you present in the guide is to pummel charge? That does seem to be the focus of that build, but you can build a whole variety of fun and useful Sacred Fist types (including Irori Sacred Fists) around a variety of concepts and martial art styles other than Pummeling.

I was referring to the listed build. My bad for being unclear.


Little confused as to why CHANNEL VIGOR is not on your list of 3rd level spells recommended. .....


ElementalXX wrote:


Hoe do you circumvent Gun Twirling prerequisites? It asks for awesome display to take it

WHOOPS!

I missed Dazzling Display.

Here's a revision:

Have God, Will Travel
Traits Fate's Favored
Race Quick-Draw
CL1 Gun1 Rapid Reload (pistol), Gunsmith
CL2 Wrp1 Weapon Focus (pistol)
CL3 Wrp2 Dazzling Display
CL4 Wrp3 Two-Weapon Fighting
CL5 Wrp4 Gun Twirling
CL6 Wrp5
CL7 Wrp6 Dual Enhancement, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
CL8 Wrp7
CL9 Wrp8 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
CL10 Wrp9
CL11 Wrp10 Hammer the Gap
CL12 Wrp11

OR

Race Quick-Draw
CL1 Gun1 Rapid Reload (pistol), Gunsmith
CL2 Wrp1 Weapon Focus (pistol)
CL3 Wrp2 Dazzling Display
CL4 Wrp3 Two-Weapon Fighting
CL5 Wrp4 Gun Twirling
CL6 Ftr1 Point-Blank Shot
CL7 Wrp5 Dual Enhancement
CL8 Wrp6 Weapon Specialization (Pistol), Point Blank Master
CL9 Wrp7 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
CL10 Wrp8
CL11 Wrp9 Rapid Shot
CL12 Wrp10

Here's another design - doesn't make great use of the Sacred Weapon bonus damage, since the gun always does more, and is only a lv9 caster, but but is a counterattacking monster (between Opportune Parry & Riposte + Snap Shot allowing him to burn Grit to counter a melee attack, and Improved Snap Shot + Combat Patrol making him a master of "You Shall Not Pass!" with guns)

The Good, the Bad, and the Holy
Musket Master/Warpriest
Traits Fate's Favored
Blessings Air
Race Point-Blank Shot
CL1 Gun1 Rapid Reload (Musket), Gunsmith
CL2 Gun2
CL3 Gun3 Rapid Shot, Fast Musket
CL4 Wrp1 Weapon Focus (Musket)
CL5 Wrp2 Dodge
CL6 Wrp3 Combat Reflexes
CL7 Wrp4 Snap Shot
CL8 Wrp5
CL9 Wrp6 Amateur Swashbuckler (Opportune Parry & Riposte), Mobility, Combat Patrol
CL10 Wrp7
CL11 Wrp8 Improved Snap Shot
CL12 Wrp9

Here's a basic "Holy Gun" build which maxes out the levels of Warpriest. You have to take Amateur Gunslinger, which means you lose out on a feat initially (which you gain back at level 12 through the Human Racial Bonus) and Gunsmithing, but you're a full lv12 caster, and you make up for this by using the Martial Versatility feat to allow ANY Firearm you carry to be a Sacred Weapon for you.

A Fistful of Incense
Traits Fate's Favored
Blessings Air
Race Rapid Reload (Pistol)
CL1 Wrp1 Amateur Gunslinger (Quick Clear), Weapon Focus (Pistol)
CL2 Wrp2
CL3 Wrp3 Point-Blank Shot, Deadly Aim
CL4 Wrp4
CL5 Wrp5 Rapid Shot
CL6 Wrp6 Martial Versatility (Weapon Focus), Precise Shot
CL7 Wrp7 Channeled Blessing
CL8 Wrp8
CL9 Wrp9 Snap Shot, Clustered Shots
CL10 Wrp10
CL11 Wrp11 Quicken Blessing (Air)
CL12 Wrp12 Disrupting Shot, Far Shot


One mistake you made with the Fistful of Incense. For the Pistol to qualify for the Weapon Focus, you have to have proficiency with the weapon. Even for the Warpriest's way to get around the BAB requirement for the first Weapon Focus, you still need the proficiency prerequisite. So you will likely have your racial feat be Exotic Weapon Proficiency (pistol) and take Rapid Reload by 3rd at the earliest. You might be able to keep most of it right if you delay or remove Channeled Blessing.

Shadow Lodge

chgraphics you are missing precise shot on all of your builds, -4 to hit is kind of a nagging thing

Scarab Sages

Well, it's musket instead of pistols, but you could always worship Cixyron for proficiency.


Kalvit wrote:
One mistake you made with the Fistful of Incense. For the Pistol to qualify for the Weapon Focus, you have to have proficiency with the weapon. Even for the Warpriest's way to get around the BAB requirement for the first Weapon Focus, you still need the proficiency prerequisite. So you will likely have your racial feat be Exotic Weapon Proficiency (pistol) and take Rapid Reload by 3rd at the earliest. You might be able to keep most of it right if you delay or remove Channeled Blessing.

"A warpriest is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as the favored weapon of his deity." Just have to choose a God of Guns.

Which probably only works in home games.

Out of all the builds, either of the "Have God, Will Travel" builds is really the most viable of them - it makes the best use of the Sacred Weapon bonus, has the most attacks, and sacrifices the least spellcasting (10-11 levels)

ElementalXX wrote:
chgraphics you are missing precise shot on all of your builds, -4 to hit is kind of a nagging thing

"Fistful" gains it, but even then, when you're aiming at Touch with every attack, a -2 (Weapon Focus + PBS, remember) to attack is really not that bad.

You could sub out Hammer the Gap, Deadly Shot, or Rapid Shot, but then you're just sacrificing damage for an already scary to-hit chance. In the end Precise Shot is icing on the cake for gunslingers who are within their first range increment.


Xavier Longsaddle wrote:
Little confused as to why CHANNEL VIGOR is not on your list of 3rd level spells recommended. .....

Because I critical failed my perception check when reading it and missed the first option. Either that or your post is the only thing giving me +4 on my belief check to see that spell existing.

Will be added.
Will be pink.

As to the gunslinger builds I will add them when I can make a more comprehensive feat list. I have never personally player a gun character so it will take quite a bit of learning to add that to a guide.


Thanks for expanding your ratings to include more races.


c873788 wrote:
Thanks for expanding your ratings to include more races.

I intend to expand it as much as possible in the future.

Presently I'm looking for GLARING omissions such as the channel vigor spell which I must have been under some kind of demon sorcery to miss because the spell is as important to the warpriest as divine favor.

Scarab Sages

Smite Abomination deserves to be on the spell list. It's Smite Undead based on wisdom in spell form. The fact that it's only useful vs undead and that it shares a spell level with Righteous Might makes it situational, but in those situations, it really shines.


I wonder if going holy vindicator would be good...
You gain Bab and ac and the roaming buff of stigmata but you lose a bit of fervor and blessings as well as a bit base damage.
Maybe 4lvls are good enough though.

Scarab Sages

If you are going to go into Prestige classes, Evangelist should be bright blue if not pink. Aligned class means you only loose one level worth of class abilities and spells, but gain early boons, 6 skills per level, and all of the evangelist class abilities in addition to what you already have.

Sczarni

chbgraphicarts wrote:
ElementalXX wrote:
chgraphics you are missing precise shot on all of your builds, -4 to hit is kind of a nagging thing

"Fistful" gains it, but even then, when you're aiming at Touch with every attack, a -2 (Weapon Focus + PBS, remember) to attack is really not that bad.

You could sub out Hammer the Gap, Deadly Shot, or Rapid Shot, but then you're just sacrificing damage for an already scary to-hit chance. In the end Precise Shot is icing on the cake for gunslingers who are within their first range increment.

Everyone who theorycrafts Gunslingers forget one important thing when enamored by firearms' ability to hit touch AC; cover.

Realistically, you're looking at a -6 to most attacks, especially during any dungeon crawl or indoor fight. Remember, you have to be within the first range increment of a firearm to hit at touch AC which is going to be at best 40 ft with a musket until you can afford a Distance enhancment. You will be mixing it up with the melee PCs and they will get in your line of fire. Even when you play with a well coordinated home game party and especially when you play with random players in PFS.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

[EDIT] Another thing to consider in regards to anyone using firearms as their primary weapon is ammunition costs. Missing as an archer is annoying but fairly inexpensive. Missing as a Gunslinger will burn through your WBL, especially since you will need alchemical cartridges to effectively pull of any sort of full attack. Even with Gunsmithing discounts, it's important to make every shot count. Abundant Ammunition can reduce your financial costs, but at the expense of your spell slots and/or action economy (depending on whether you're casting from slot or wand).


Prestige classes are not something I'm looking into at this time. I've got enough other things to add before that.


The Tank Warpriest.

Wki defines 'Tank' as strong mobile land weapons platforms, mounting a large-calibre cannon. They combine this with heavy vehicle armour providing protection for the crew

Tank Build:

1-Aura, Blessings (Good,Destruction), focus weapon: Bastard Sword, orisons, sacred weapon (Good aligned), Fey Touched, Tower Shield Prof.
2-Fervor 1d6
3-Detect EvilPower Attack
4-Smite Evil 1/day
5-Fervor 2d6, Divine Protection
6-Weapon Spec: Bastard Sword Favored Class bonus:Bar Room Brawler or Shield Focus or Saving Shield
7-Sacred Armor +1, Battlecry
8-Fervor 3d6,Smite Evil 2/day
9-Bonus Feat- GTR Weapon Focus, Ironbound or Gtr Shield Focus
10-Major Blessing, Sacred Armor +2
11-Fervor 4d6 Quicken Blessing
12-Bonus Feat- Gtr Weapon Spec, HOLY Weapon 1/day,Smite Evil 3/dayFavored Class bonus:Critical Focus

OK. Unlike traditional MMO's definitions who see Tanks as classes the draw 'aggro', barring certain very contentious feats there is not an aggro mechanic in PF.

To be an effective tank you need a Massive AC (the armored platform part) and do big enough damage to not be ignored.

The above build with level appropriate wealth done as as either a Normal warpriest or a Champion of the faith fits the bill.

The unstoppable tank part: Need at least a Large Shield or a Tower Shield and Fullplate. Armor enchants are cheap+ Sacred Armor you can easily have an AC of your level+20 which is the standard minimum for a tank.
Weapon, Generally the most damaging weapon you can wield in one hand. A few Patrons grant Bastard Sword for 1d10.
A particular item you NEED to not limit yourself is FEATHERSTEP SLIPPERS, these let you ignore the adverse effects of difficult terrain. Your speed is already reduced from your heavy armor. Don't let terrain impede you futher.
Magic effects will be less likely to stop you, because of high base saves, good con and wis scores and DIVINE PROTECTION.
a Few contingency spells like AIr Bubble for clouds, Gtr Stunning Barrier for AC, Saves and limiting enemy movement are awesome.

Also the warpriest has Pseudo LOH as a class ability. With a sky high AC you won't get hit often but when you do you can easily soak hits.

The Big Cannon: You need capacity to do BIG hits with the few attacks you get. Damage adding blessings are awesome, so Destruction, Strength, Good etc.
Champion of the faith adds Smite. Smite is awesome.

Bulls Str can be applied swift before you can afford a belt.......

Gotta go, I'll browse some shield fighter threads and see what can be added


STR Ranger wrote:

Champion of the faith adds Smite. Smite is awesome.

I got really excited by this when I saw you could add Smite onto your Warpriest because Smite is awesome. But that was quickly followed by disapointment because Smite is awesome for Charisma builds and for many people, Charisma will be the dump stat for their Warpriest. Trying to have a high Charisma on a Warpriest is very MAD. So not so awesome afterall.


Certainly doable though.
Human or Half-orc or Half elf
Str 16 (14+2 racial)
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 14

Is doable.
All stat bumps to wis for casting (most of your spells are buffs anyway)

A belt of str for to hit and fortunes favored, divine power etc.

Head band of cha/wis for saves and spells, smite.

It's not the cha bonus to hit on smite you care about (though it helps) it's adding YOUR LEVEL to damage and bypassing DR.

About to cruise a few fighter/inquisitor handbooks and see what's good for war priest.


STR Ranger wrote:


It's not the cha bonus to hit on smite you care about (though it helps) it's adding YOUR LEVEL to damage and bypassing DR.

Actually, for some crazy reason I had it in my head that it was the Charisma bonus that added to damage, not YOUR LEVEL. That is indeed doable. As you say, the Cha bonus to hit is not so important. I would start with just a 12 Cha and put the extra points anywhere else except Int. Your idea is getting me excited again.

I am really interested to see what could be done with a Half Orc and the sacred tattoo racial bonus along with a high crit range weapon and a tower shield. The idea of a high dps/tank that can also Smite is very appealing. It also means you could skip Good as your blessing as part of the reason for going with Good is to bypass DR.


c873788 wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:


It's not the cha bonus to hit on smite you care about (though it helps) it's adding YOUR LEVEL to damage and bypassing DR.

Actually, for some crazy reason I had it in my head that it was the Charisma bonus that added to damage, not YOUR LEVEL. That is indeed doable. As you say, the Cha bonus to hit is not so important. I would start with just a 12 Cha and put the extra points anywhere else except Int. Your idea is getting me excited again.

I am really interested to see what could be done with a Half Orc and the sacred tattoo racial bonus along with a high crit range weapon and a tower shield. The idea of a high dps/tank that can also Smite is very appealing. It also means you could skip Good as your blessing as part of the reason for going with Good is to bypass DR.

With higher stats I rank it higher. With a standard 15 point buy it's a very hard sell. At 20 it's still pretty bad. With good rolls or a 25 point buy it's strong unfortunately it doesn't mesh with sacred fist or I'd adore it since flurry smite is awesome.


STR Ranger wrote:

If lancing was as easy as you say then everyone would do it.

It has issues.

Two handed is a very common style. The most popular by far actually.

With this build it takes 1 round to set up not 2.

You move to close and make your standard action hit which gets you shaken and faltfooted. (Which is worth dazzling display and cornugon smash on their own. Not a feat tax.)

So the question is at level 12 "Is a one Mega Damage Attack at BAB +9
Worth more than 2 normal damage aattacks at +9/+4"

Hell yes.

You are only giving up your Lowest iterative on a 3/4 BAB class for the mega hit.
I know the War priest is a buff monkey but the 2nd and 3rd attack on a 3/4 class os no sure thing.

Would I use Deadly stroke if I was hasted? In that case no. But unless I am playing with a sorcerer, haste doesn't get spammed every fight. Wizards gotta prep other stuff as well.

This is not strictly a deadly stroke build anyway.
It is an intimidate build.

Hell even in the Stat block I CLEARLY wrote at level 12 you could take Deadly Stroke OR DAZING ASSAULT.

Use that for the 12th level feat.
Dazzling Display and cornugon Smash/Shatter...

I was not commenting on the potential of such a build, I was commenting on how the build was presented. I did not take into effect that there are other feats that might help that build because the person presenting it wasn't. I agree that it could be improved upon but my post was solely discussing it on how it was described.

In the way it was presented you would have to take a full round (or at least a standard) to intimidate to get the shaken condition in round 1, shatter defenses to get flat footed in round 2, then deadly stroke in round 3. I agree that with cornugon smash it is just 1 round to set up but it is still a total of 2 rounds (1 round to power attack them with your 1st attack, shatter defenses with your second attack round 2 would be deadly stroke) Vital strike tree does it better in my opinion


Very much liking the guide so far, so well done! Just a couple of points for possible inclusion:

1. Horn of the Criosphinx is a winner of a feat for the Sacred fist, double your strength to damage while pummeling charge (for all attacks too) is a bit hard to pass up.

2. As to the ring of summoning affinity, I am partial to the Agathion one (especially since it adds a good creature to the 8th level Summon monster list, the Leonal). With Quicken blessing at high levels, it is basically a swift action heal + a combat beatstick (leonals can cast heal, and it is a free action to say, "Please, Old Chap, cast that heal on me")

prototype00

Oh, also a Samsaran Sacred Fist with the Strong Jaw spell can easily reach 8d8 unarmed damage at lvl 15 with a casting of Righteous Might. I know people are more fond of static mods, but 8d8 damage is a non-insignificant amount (especially since you don't have to sacrifice your static mods to get it, power attack, dragon style and horn of the criosphinx means that you are doing a good 30+ static damage per hit).


prototype00 wrote:


2. As to the ring of summoning affinity, I am partial to the Agathion one (especially since it adds a good creature to the 8th level Summon monster list, the Leonal). With Quicken blessing at high levels, it is basically a swift action heal + a combat beatstick (leonals can cast heal, and it is a free action to say, "Please, Old Chap, cast that heal on me")

prototype00

Oh, also a Samsaran Sacred Fist with the Strong Jaw spell can easily reach 8d8 unarmed damage at lvl 15 with a casting of Righteous Might. I know people are more fond of static mods, but 8d8 damage is a non-insignificant amount (especially since you don't have to sacrifice your static mods to get it, power attack, dragon style and horn of the criosphinx means that you are doing a good 30+ static damage per hit).

There are so many good ones. Mostly evil ones.

Samsaran is just the best race if allowed due to spell lists.

Quote:
1. Horn of the Criosphinx is a winner of a feat for the Sacred fist, double your strength to damage while pummeling charge (for all attacks too) is a bit hard to pass up.

It was avoided due to absurdly high level requirements. It needs BAB 6 which means 9th level, unfortunately Combat style master is awesome and 11th level is nigh required to quicken blessing. 13th is the first level. It also is monk splash only.


Evil summons don't have as many cures though, if that is what you are gunning for. The Leonal on the other hand has that 1/day heal (which each summoning should net you a new one of) and has lay on hands for 7d6 9 times per day.

Melee damage isn't great (ironically for the giant anthropomorphic lion) I admit, but at will 10d6 fireballs makes up for a fair bit in my opinion.

On the subject of Horn of the Criosphinx, well, since I am partial to the 2 monk dip, I took quicken blessing as my 13th level feat, and Horn of the Criosphinx as my 11th, but yes, you are broadly correct about the higher requirements for it.

prototype00

Dark Archive

As a Sacred Fist, I actually don't think Quicken Blessing is all that big of a deal. Summons tend to slow down play pretty significantly, in my experience.

Besides, you're already punching the bajebus out of everything every turn, there's no real need to go completely crazy. ;)


What about a dorn durgar build? You can use the weapon as a reach weapon or normal range while also at later levels either dual wielding them or using one with a shield for added AC.

Dark Archive

TWF with Dorn-Dergars leaves you TWF'ing with 2 "one-handed" weapons (so you have to eat the extra penalty for not having a light weapon in your offhand), requires a LOT of Strength and Dexterity to work (and you're already pretty MAD from needing Str, Con and Wis, plus Int if you have any intention of having half-decent skill points) and requires you to burn a feat to be able to change from normal to reach as a swift action instead of a move action (though your swifts are already pretty much spoken for as a Warpriest, so you could probably skip that feat).

They're super cool and flavorful, and are pretty neat, but it's unlikely to be much different from a normal reach warpriest. It's probably just not worth the effort to invest in specifically using the Dorn-Dergar.


Seranov wrote:

As a Sacred Fist, I actually don't think Quicken Blessing is all that big of a deal. Summons tend to slow down play pretty significantly, in my experience.

Besides, you're already punching the bajebus out of everything every turn, there's no real need to go completely crazy. ;)

Quicken blessing is mandatory even in absence of summons.

Quickened air blessing is flying +level electrical damage to every hit on a charge. Quickened Destruction blessing is awesome. Quickened Summons are good too but are hardly the only option.

Shadow Lodge

How well might Death from Above tie in w/Air Blessing's +level in Electricity to damage and flight?


Undone wrote:
Quicken blessing is mandatory even in absence of summons.

I wouldn't call it mandatory, there are several blessings that do not at all benefit from Quicken Blessing. Liberation, Madness and Strength, for example.


Kudaku wrote:
Undone wrote:
Quicken blessing is mandatory even in absence of summons.
I wouldn't call it mandatory, there are several blessings that do not at all benefit from Quicken Blessing. Liberation, Madness and Strength, for example.

If you pick two weaker blessings yes you can avoid using it. All of the really good blessings are standard or move actions.

Quote:
How well might Death from Above tie in w/Air Blessing's +level in Electricity to damage and flight?

Poorly. You're likely to be charging laterally (height wise) or upward.

Quote:
What about a dorn durgar build? You can use the weapon as a reach weapon or normal range while also at later levels either dual wielding them or using one with a shield for added AC.

That is more or less a reach build just with slightly different feats. Again my build is to create generalist builds which can be modifier as desired. The reach build is highly versatile because the core is just Combat reflexes, power attack, and pushing assault.

Quote:
On the subject of Horn of the Criosphinx, well, since I am partial to the 2 monk dip, I took quicken blessing as my 13th level feat, and Horn of the Criosphinx as my 11th, but yes, you are broadly correct about the higher requirements for it.

A fair point. I did add it to the list I just didn't think about it at first.


Undone wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
Undone wrote:
Quicken blessing is mandatory even in absence of summons.
I wouldn't call it mandatory, there are several blessings that do not at all benefit from Quicken Blessing. Liberation, Madness and Strength, for example.
If you pick two weaker blessings yes you can avoid using it. All of the really good blessings are standard or move actions.

You do realize you ranked both the minor and the major Liberation blessings as blue options in your own guide, right?


Kudaku wrote:
Undone wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
Undone wrote:
Quicken blessing is mandatory even in absence of summons.
I wouldn't call it mandatory, there are several blessings that do not at all benefit from Quicken Blessing. Liberation, Madness and Strength, for example.
If you pick two weaker blessings yes you can avoid using it. All of the really good blessings are standard or move actions.
You do realize you ranked both the minor and the major Liberation blessings as blue options in your own guide, right?

All of the pink blessings (Minus luck which I honestly feel is likely a typo or error) benefit from quicken blessing.

There are plenty of good swift action blessings and liberation is one of them. That said there aren't any blessings other than liberation and luck which have both a minor and major blessing that are awesome and don't benefit from quicken blessing. So yes in that extremely rare situation which are you elect no alignment blessings, and you select no standard action blessings or weaker blessings yes it can be skipped. That said you can also skip natural spell on a druid and not cast anything but long duration buffs. I still don't recommend it.


Undone wrote:
There are plenty of good swift action blessings and liberation is one of them. That said there aren't any blessings other than liberation and luck which have both a minor and major blessing that are awesome and don't benefit from quicken blessing. So yes in that extremely rare situation which are you elect no alignment blessings, and you select no standard action blessings or weaker blessings yes it can be skipped. That said you can also skip natural spell on a druid and not cast anything but long duration buffs. I still don't recommend it.

That's my point though - if you can put together a good build while picking good blessings that do not benefit from Quicken Blessing, it's not a mandatory feat and shouldn't be described as such.

Natural Spell is a poor comparison since barring archetypes all druids get wild shape, a better analogue would be to say that Slashing Grace is mandatory for Swashbucklers - except it isn't, since you can instead take Dervish Dance or Fencing Grace if you like scimitars or rapiers, or buy an Agile weapon if you start on the later levels.

This is nitpicking really and I wouldn't have commented if it was someone else who said it, but to an outsider reading the thread it seemed you were essentially disagreeing with your own guide, so I figured it was worth pointing out.


Kudaku wrote:
Undone wrote:
There are plenty of good swift action blessings and liberation is one of them. That said there aren't any blessings other than liberation and luck which have both a minor and major blessing that are awesome and don't benefit from quicken blessing. So yes in that extremely rare situation which are you elect no alignment blessings, and you select no standard action blessings or weaker blessings yes it can be skipped. That said you can also skip natural spell on a druid and not cast anything but long duration buffs. I still don't recommend it.

That's my point though - if you can put together a good build while picking good blessings that do not benefit from Quicken Blessing, it's not a mandatory feat and shouldn't be described as such.

Natural Spell is a poor comparison since barring archetypes all druids get wild shape, a better analogue would be to say that Slashing Grace is mandatory for Swashbucklers - except it isn't, since you can instead take Dervish Dance or Fencing Grace if you like scimitars or rapiers, or buy an Agile weapon if you start on the later levels.

This is nitpicking really and I wouldn't have commented if it was someone else who said it, but to an outsider reading the thread it seemed you were essentially disagreeing with your own guide, so I figured it was worth pointing out.

A fair point but I also point out the summoning blessings at every possibly moment that alignment blessings are something I'd always take. There's little/no blessings better than summoning. I suppose you could craft it without the feat but the feat is as core to me as power attack is to a fighter.


Undone wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
Undone wrote:
Quicken blessing is mandatory even in absence of summons.
I wouldn't call it mandatory, there are several blessings that do not at all benefit from Quicken Blessing. Liberation, Madness and Strength, for example.

If you pick two weaker blessings yes you can avoid using it. All of the really good blessings are standard or move actions.

Quote:
How well might Death from Above tie in w/Air Blessing's +level in Electricity to damage and flight?

Poorly. You're likely to be charging laterally (height wise) or upward.

Quote:
What about a dorn durgar build? You can use the weapon as a reach weapon or normal range while also at later levels either dual wielding them or using one with a shield for added AC.

That is more or less a reach build just with slightly different feats. Again my build is to create generalist builds which can be modifier as desired. The reach build is highly versatile because the core is just Combat reflexes, power attack, and pushing assault.

Quote:
On the subject of Horn of the Criosphinx, well, since I am partial to the 2 monk dip, I took quicken blessing as my 13th level feat, and Horn of the Criosphinx as my 11th, but yes, you are broadly correct about the higher requirements for it.
A fair point. I did add it to the list I just didn't think about it at first.

I was actually just thinking of building a Castlevania inspired warpriest, and trying to convince myself to take the ewp and weapon focus for the dwarven dorn dergar for specifically this kind of build (reach tank). By interesting qualities, you mean the reach to adjacent move action switch? Any help or suggestion with this sort of build would be amazing, as right now i'm having trouble nailing it, our group could really use a reach tank, and I reeeeaaally want to justify a chain weapon like the dorn dergar. Would a spiked chain with lunge be better for an off-tank reach build that keeps the chain motif?

This issue is compounded by the fact that my dm says I have to stick to Sarenrae, so i can't pick a diety based on weapon prof. So if i'm 6th level, that's EWP at 3rd, chain flail master at 6 for a 1d10 one-handed reach weapon with a shield. Then I'm assuming quick draw or Darting viper as a bonus feat at 6th? I might be incorrect about my feat progressions. Then I'd imagine Quickened Blessing, Power Attack, and Combat Reflexes, provided you're human?


...And then maybe fit Furious focus in there to offset the low BAB+ Power Attack...Maybe Improved Initiative to set up?

Actually, While we're talking exotic chain reach weapons for AoO, why not the Flying blade? Your primary attack would be at a painful-2, but any AoOs would be at a +2. Also, d12 damage and x3 crit is nothing to scoff at (though you can only 2 hand it, and can't switch to strike adjacent).

The Meteor Hammer in fortress mode would also work, as then you're essentially getting a light shield for free (+1 to AC while in fortress mode).

Scarab Sages

ClockworkWraith wrote:


I was actually just thinking of building a Castlevania inspired warpriest, and trying to convince myself to take the ewp and weapon focus for the dwarven dorn dergar for specifically this kind of build (reach tank). By interesting qualities, you mean the reach to adjacent move action switch? Any help or suggestion with this sort of build would be amazing, as right now i'm having trouble nailing it, our group could really use a reach tank, and I reeeeaaally want to justify a chain weapon like the dorn dergar. Would a spiked chain with lunge be better for an off-tank reach build that keeps the chain motif?...

If you are both wanting to make a Castlevania inspired warpriest and are stuck worshiping Sarenrae, I would make a Half-Orc whip user.

Half orcs can get whip proficency from an alternate racial trait, have all the other good warpriest things I've mentioned before, and a whip with whip mastery feats and the whip master trait are better than a dorn-dergar for a warpriest.


ClockworkWraith wrote:
Undone wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
Undone wrote:
Quicken blessing is mandatory even in absence of summons.
I wouldn't call it mandatory, there are several blessings that do not at all benefit from Quicken Blessing. Liberation, Madness and Strength, for example.

If you pick two weaker blessings yes you can avoid using it. All of the really good blessings are standard or move actions.

Quote:
How well might Death from Above tie in w/Air Blessing's +level in Electricity to damage and flight?

Poorly. You're likely to be charging laterally (height wise) or upward.

Quote:
What about a dorn durgar build? You can use the weapon as a reach weapon or normal range while also at later levels either dual wielding them or using one with a shield for added AC.

That is more or less a reach build just with slightly different feats. Again my build is to create generalist builds which can be modifier as desired. The reach build is highly versatile because the core is just Combat reflexes, power attack, and pushing assault.

Quote:
On the subject of Horn of the Criosphinx, well, since I am partial to the 2 monk dip, I took quicken blessing as my 13th level feat, and Horn of the Criosphinx as my 11th, but yes, you are broadly correct about the higher requirements for it.
A fair point. I did add it to the list I just didn't think about it at first.
I was actually just thinking of building a Castlevania inspired warpriest, and trying to convince myself to take the ewp and weapon focus for the dwarven dorn dergar for specifically this kind of build (reach tank). By interesting qualities, you mean the reach to adjacent move action switch? Any help or suggestion with this sort of build would be amazing, as right now i'm having trouble nailing it, our group could really use a reach tank, and I reeeeaaally want to justify a chain weapon like the dorn dergar. Would a spiked chain with lunge be better for an off-tank reach build that keeps the chain motif?...

I made one for a friend in my new campaign that wanted a Dwarven warpriest that could use a dorn durgar either as 1h or possibly TWF with them like the crazy Dwarf from the RA Salvatore books that runs around with Entreri and Jarlaxle. Combat reflex as first feat, then power attack and pushing assault at third.

We tried some test combat for the class at a few levels in where you get durgar master and darting viper to be able to use the weapon 1h and still have reach with a shield. It worked fine as an off tank that could stand up with the fighter or help protect the squishies from flanking enemies.


Quote:
I was actually just thinking of building a Castlevania inspired warpriest, and trying to convince myself to take the ewp and weapon focus for the dwarven dorn dergar for specifically this kind of build (reach tank). By interesting qualities, you mean the reach to adjacent move action switch? Any help or suggestion with this sort of build would be amazing, as right now i'm having trouble nailing it, our group could really use a reach tank, and I reeeeaaally want to justify a chain weapon like the dorn dergar. Would a spiked chain with lunge be better for an off-tank reach build that keeps the chain motif?

I really like the swift action changes. This allows you to swap after you divine favor and gives you powerful threat ranges. I recommend getting darting viper if you wish to use it.

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This issue is compounded by the fact that my dm says I have to stick to Sarenrae, so i can't pick a diety based on weapon prof. So if i'm 6th level, that's EWP at 3rd, chain flail master at 6 for a 1d10 one-handed reach weapon with a shield. Then I'm assuming quick draw or Darting viper as a bonus feat at 6th? I might be incorrect about my feat progressions. Then I'd imagine Quickened Blessing, Power Attack, and Combat Reflexes, provided you're human?

Problem solved.

Be a dwarf get the feat for free at 1. The feat progression I would use would be 1) Combat reflexes, 3B) Power attack, 3) Pushing assault, 5) Open, 6) Lunge or weapon spec (if you need more damage in the group) 7) Darting viper.

You don't need darting viper until later on. Darting viper isn't needed early but later on especially it becomes much better due to step up becoming available to a lot more monsters/NPC's. Darting viper gives a lot of utility but isn't mandatory early.


Just a quick note back on the discussion of natural weapon Warpriests; Skinwalkers are going to do very well as followers of Apsu or other claw or bite favoring gods. Some variance in effectiveness across the different variants, but the Bearkin inspired feats look very nice. (Blood of the Moon)

Scarab Sages

Actually, a Bite focused Kitsune might not be terrible. Finesse, an agile AoMF, and vulpine pounce can be interesting. Or go fox form, nature magic and vital strike with riders.


I'm not the expert build creator that several of you are, so I'll toss my idea out and see what comes of it. I'm a fan of the now-iconic switch-hitter ranger (largely because it wasn't really done by jumping through hoops so much as looking at the options from a different angle) and I'm looking at a rebuild of an existing dwarven cleric of Gorum.

That juxtaposition of ideas has me tinkering with a dwarven warpriest of Gorum (the character has played more like a warpriest than a cleric, anyway) that invests in both his greatsword and his crossbow so he can contribute at range as well as in melee. He's seventh level right now and here are the feats I'm looking at.

Weapon Focus (light crossbow) [1st - class bonus]
Deadly Aim [1st]

Power Attack [3rd - class bonus]
Furious Focus [3rd]

Quick Draw [5th]

Vital Strike [6th - class bonus]

Rapid Reload [7th]

Planned: Improved Critical (Greatsword) [9th - class bonus]

I'm sure it's far from optimized, but I think he will be able to contribute more than he has been as a cleric. That said, I'm always interested in suggestions for how I can do better.


@AinvarG simply being able to cast 4th level magic is better than vital striking. I strongly recommend against vital strike builds for a WP.

Scarab Sages

Undone wrote:
@AinvarG simply being able to cast 4th level magic is better than vital striking. I strongly recommend against vital strike builds for a WP.

Agree to disagree. Thanks to Greater Weapon of the Chosen, the fact that you can get every feat in the vital strike chain before your would get your next iterative attack, and the possibility of some of the druidic vital strike enhancing feats, WP is the only class I would recommend making a vital strike build with.


Undone wrote:
@AinvarG simply being able to cast 4th level magic is better than vital striking. I strongly recommend against vital strike builds for a WP.

I'm open to alternatives, but I don't understand your statement. You imply that taking vital strike prevents me from casting 4th-level spells when I get access to them. It is a non sequitur or did you leave something unsaid?


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Now that I have a bit of time I'm looking into expanding this guide. I have a lot on the list. Is there anything which people want to see?

Dark Archive

Honestly, even though it's not all that impressive, a straight-forward beatstick type of Warpriest. The Vital Strike build (bad as it may be) sort of builds itself, but a THF seems a little more complicated.

Though I didn't look at any THF Fighter guides, so I might just be a bad.


Something interesting that I found to contribute: Know the Enemy. Since Fervor doesn't care about the original duration of the spell, a canny Warpriest can cast this as a swift action to do quite the decent Inquisitor impersonation with a +10 to a monster knowledge check.

A potentially amusing build (say, the War Sage) could involve the worship of Irori for his deific obedience (+4 to all Knowledge checks), Breadth of Experience (+2 to all Knowledge and Profession and can make them untrained), this spell, and a Conductive weapon with the Knowledge blessing (whack monsters to get a free knowledge check against them with a result of 15 + level + WIS).

Now, unlike an Inquisitor with their Bane there aren't many "direct" ways to make use of this knowledge, but hey, at least you'll surprise people.

Thoughts?

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