Warpriest guide. Fight for your god.


Advice

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Chbgraphicarts, could you please build an unarmed Sacred Fist too? I liked the scimitar version, but since Undone's build is outdated, I think it would be nice to see an (some) updated build(s).
I also have a question about Sacred Fists and Weapon Specialization: Can't they take this feat too? They are Warpriests, after all (and the fighter by RAW is their parent).


Petrus Caietanus wrote:


Chbgraphicarts, could you please build an unarmed Sacred Fist too? I liked the scimitar version, but since Undone's build is outdated, I think it would be nice to see an (some) updated build(s).

I think I can come up with something.

cont. wrote:
I also have a question about Sacred Fists and Weapon Specialization: Can't they take this feat too? They are Warpriests, after all (and the fighter by RAW is their parent).

Only at lv15, which means it's useless for the purposes of PFS.

The reason is that Warpriests DO NOT count as Fighters except for their Bonus Combat Feats.

The BCF slots always check the Warpriest's level, counting its current Warpriest levels as those of a Fighter and as its appropriate BAB; that's why you can Retrains your 3rd Level Bonus Combat Feat to be Weapon Specialization at lv4 for the normal Warpriest.

The Sacred Fist, however, runs into a gigantic problem - it trades out Bonus Combat Feats for Bonus Style Feats and dependent Feats like Pummeling Charge, counting its levels as Monk for the purposes of those Bonus Feat slots.

The ONLY time the Sacred Fist gets s Bonus Feat slot that qualifies it as a Fighter is lv15. Since that's the one-and-only time you can get that, you're much, MUCH better off spending that slot on Greater Weapon Focus since it ups your pretty-abysmal accuracy.

Back when Flurry counted your Sacred Fist level as BAB, you didn't NEED to take GWF at lv15; now, if the game goes that high, it's kind of a requirement, honestly.


Master of Many Styles Unchained Monk lv1 / Sacred Fist 11

Alignment LG/NG/CG
Deity Lythertida/Irori
Traits Fate's Favored, ???
Blessings Law, Strength (Irori) / Good, Community (Lythertida)
Race Hmn Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
CL1 Mnk1 ???*, Pummeling Style**, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
CL2 ScFs1
CL3 ScFs2 Dragon Style**
CL4 ScFs3
CL5 ScFs4 Dragon Ferocity***
CL6 ScFs5
CL7 ScFs6 Preferred Spell (Divine Power), Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity
CL8 ScFs7
CL9 ScFs8 ???****
CL10 ScFs9
CL11 ScFs10 Spell Perfection
CL12 ScFs11

Sacred Fist Flurry (Weapon Focus): +8/+8/+3/+3
Unchained Monk Flurry (Weapon Focus): +10/+10/+5

* Retrain to Heighten Spell at lv3
** Retrain to Elemental Spell at lv7
*** Retrain to Quicken Spell at lv7
**** Retrain to Quicken Blessing at lv11

---

So, looking at Master of Many Styles AND looking at Unchained Monk, I actually can't see any reason why MoMS shouldn't work with UnMonk.

So, taking advantage of that, and the errata for how MoMS now works, you take Moms-UnMonk for just 1 level to gain Pummeling Style early.

You take Dragon Style at lv3, and Dragon Ferocity at lv5; you retrain these out later when you hit lv7 because you can get them back immediately through the lv6 Bonus Style Feat and Bonus Combat Feat for being a Human (assuming you still get 1/6 of a Bonus Combat Feat, which should be the case because you DO get a BCF at lv15 anyway).

This build focuses more on your spells than Undone's. At lv7, you gain the ability to cast Divine Favor spontaneously - since it's your most-used spell, it's best to just have it be spontaneous, so you don't have to Prepare it.

While this means you won't be able to Fervor-cast it, it also means you can save space for OTHER spells to either use or Fervor-Cast, and you can eat up higher spells slots than just lv1 spells.

At lv11, you Retrain once again to get both Quicken Blessing and Spell Perfection (Blood Crow Strike). This way, you can Quicken Blood Crow Strike, as well as Quicken to get your Battle Buddy out.

You can also retrain Preferred Spell away from Divine Favor to Blood Crow Strike at lv11, so that you can always burn spells to perform your Kamehameha maneuver.

Obviously, you are NEVER going to get Pummeling Charge AND fused Attacks with Sacred Fist in PFS, so, this is the best you'll get.

Grand Lodge

Unchained specifically says UnMonks can't take Monk archetypes.


Oncoming_Storm wrote:
Unchained specifically says UnMonks can't take Monk archetypes.

Yeah, but for homegames it really should be legal.

It replaces ONLY Bonus Feats, Flurry, and Perfect Self - all three of these are STILL hard-coded abilities of the UnMonk, rather than being Ki Powers, thus there's no conflict with the Master of Many Styles Archetype and the class as presented.

Anything Archetype that hits a Ki Power ability of the UnMonk, I'd agree, but I do feel that MoMS should be considered one of the few exceptions to the "No Archetypes" rule in homegames.

Shadow Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
You absolutely can use greater weapon of the chosen with vital strike, because like vital strike itself, the wording of GWotC is a single attack with the attack action. You are making a single attack with the attack action on a vital strike, so the do stack. This has been confirmed by Owen Stephens.

Great, you've posted a link to a thread that says, despite how the rules work, Owen Stephens, who wrote it, says it's still ok. Or, alternatively, it works because someone says so, not because it actually works in the rules. :P

So, what you are saying it I can Vital Spring Attack with Greater Weapon of the Chosen while holding the FAQ up in my off hand? All it's doing is modifying me Standard Action Attack Action that's in between a split Move Action, right? No such thing as a specific type of action.

:P


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I believe this is the rule you are looking for.

Melee Tactics Toolbox wrote:
Attack Action: An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action. When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Thus, you can apply both Greater Weapon of the Chosen and Vital Strike to the same attack, as both modify your attack action. You can apply these to any combat option that takes the place of a melee attack made using an attack action (such as the trip combat maneuver), though options that increase damage don't cause attacks to deal damage if they wouldn't otherwise do so (such as Vital Strike and trip). You can't combine options that modify attack actions with standard actions that aren't attack actions, such as Cleave.

Also, Spring Attack doesn't let you take a standard action. You may be thinking of Flyby Attack, which totally works with both Vital Strike and Greater Weapon of the Chosen, because it allows you to make an attack action.

Scarab Sages

DM Beckett wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
You absolutely can use greater weapon of the chosen with vital strike, because like vital strike itself, the wording of GWotC is a single attack with the attack action. You are making a single attack with the attack action on a vital strike, so the do stack. This has been confirmed by Owen Stephens.

Great, you've posted a link to a thread that says, despite how the rules work, Owen Stephens, who wrote it, says it's still ok. Or, alternatively, it works because someone says so, not because it actually works in the rules. :P

So, what you are saying it I can Vital Spring Attack with Greater Weapon of the Chosen while holding the FAQ up in my off hand? All it's doing is modifying me Standard Action Attack Action that's in between a split Move Action, right? No such thing as a specific type of action.

:P

As the rules clarification in the Melee Tactics Toolbox posted by Avoron confirms, that is actually how it works in the rules.

When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Both Greater Weapon of the Chosen and Vital Strike modify an attack action. You can use them together. Spring Attack does not modify an attack action, so you cannot.

That is the difference.

Scarab Sages

I agree that the rules work that way. It's a pity, though, given how almost nobody uses either Spring Attack or Vital Strike. I've seen it houseruled in a home game, and it worked pretty well while being far from overpowered.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Quick warpriest question-Sacred Weapon. Let's say I have a +1 longbow. When I use sacred weapon for the first time, giving it the +1 enchantment bonus, does that mean I have to give it something like flaming? Or can I just have it simply be a +2 longbow?


2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
Quick warpriest question-Sacred Weapon. Let's say I have a +1 longbow. When I use sacred weapon for the first time, giving it the +1 enchantment bonus, does that mean I have to give it something like flaming? Or can I just have it simply be a +2 longbow?

At fourth level you may add a +1 bonus to the weapon.

If that weapon already has a magical bonus it stacks or you may add a +1 special ability to that weapon. You have your choice.

Scarab Sages

You can give it any of the properties listed, including a straight-up enhancement bonus. They stack with those already on the weapon. You can't have the same property twice, though.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Not even the +1 a second time? Id hoped that I could keep using it to increase my stats over the extra damage

Shadow Lodge

It is noted as stacking, up to a +5 Weapon, so you can either make your normally +1 Weapon into a +2 Weapon, or a +1 _______ Weapon with a usage of Sacred Weapon.

Armor works essentially the same way.


DM Beckett wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
You absolutely can use greater weapon of the chosen with vital strike, because like vital strike itself, the wording of GWotC is a single attack with the attack action. You are making a single attack with the attack action on a vital strike, so the do stack. This has been confirmed by Owen Stephens.

Great, you've posted a link to a thread that says, despite how the rules work, Owen Stephens, who wrote it, says it's still ok. Or, alternatively, it works because someone says so, not because it actually works in the rules. :P

So, what you are saying it I can Vital Spring Attack with Greater Weapon of the Chosen while holding the FAQ up in my off hand? All it's doing is modifying me Standard Action Attack Action that's in between a split Move Action, right? No such thing as a specific type of action.

:P

Vital strike and gwotc both modify the "attack" action. So they stack

Cleave is a separate standard action
Spring attack is a separate full round action.

If cleave p.e. was worded as "when you use the attack action you..." Instead of "as a standard action you..." You could even stack cleave+vital.

To put it more simply:
A full round ACTION (as spring attack p.e.) is not the same as a full round ATTACK, despite both using you full round ACTION.

A standard action that gives you one attack (+something), like cleave p.e. is NOT the same as a standard ATTACK, despite both using the standard action.

Vital strike though is actually a standard ARTACK, so things that modify the standard ATACK work (like gwotc)

And ofc there are specific ACTIONS, and specific action TYPES.

So "drawing a potion" is a specific action costing 1 move action type
Similarly
Standard action attack is a specific action that costs a standard action type
Full attack is an action costing your full round action type
And etc
There is a whole table with specific actuons and their respective costs.

So vital strike: not an action. It modified another action (the standard atack)
Cleave: it's own specific standard action
Etc


I just realized. As a sacred fist warpriest you are literally forced to dip monk to able to get any use from your "bonus style feats". Since most of the time you need monk abilities/levels to get them.
I think I'm giving up on my sacred fist.


POPE SAVATE THE JERK, PATRON SAINT OF KICKS & CURBSTOMPS
Human Champion of the Faith Warpriest

Race Weapon Finesse
CL1 Wrp1 Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Improved Unarmed Strike
CL2 Wrp2
CL3 Wrp3 Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
CL4 Wrp4
CL5 Wrp5 Combat Reflexes
CL6 Wrp6 Improved TWF, Greater Trip
CL7 Wrp7 Adept Champion
CL8 Wrp8
CL9 Wrp9 Vicious Stomp, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
CL10 Wrp10
CL11 Wrp11 ???
CL12 Wrp12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus

"He keeps kickin' me in the dick... WHY DOES HE KEEP KICKIN' ME IN THE DICK!?"
- Vegeta, Prince of All Saiyans

One of the biggest complaints against Combat Maneuvers is that they get ridiculously hard to fire off as you get higher in levels (due to higher CR enemies being physically massive and having ludicrous CRDs as result).

Adept Champion, however, makes it much, MUCH easier, since your bonuses to perform Combat Maneuvers come from both your Charisma and 1/2 your Warpriest level, meaning you're getting pretty MASSIVE bonuses on succeed on Tripping.

And since you already have a high Dexterity from Weapon Finesse and TWF, you also gets LOTS of Attacks of Opportunity with Combat Reflexes, so your main M.O. is Trip > AOO Kick > AOO Stomp > Remaining Attacks.


Woodoodoo wrote:

I just realized. As a sacred fist warpriest you are literally forced to dip monk to able to get any use from your "bonus style feats". Since most of the time you need monk abilities/levels to get them.

I think I'm giving up on my sacred fist.

No, you are not "literally" forced to dip at all.

You WANT to dip Monk of Many Styles in order to get 2 Style Feats at lv1-2 and the ability to have 2 Styles active at the same time.

Re-read Sacred Fist - you count your SF levels as Monk Levels for the purposes of qualifying for those Bonus Style/Style-Dependent Feats.

Only 1 Style Feat requires you to have Stunning Fist as a prereq.


For example you need stunning fist in order to get dragon ferocity


Woodoodoo wrote:
For example you need stunning fist in order to get dragon ferocity

You wouldn't use Dragon Ferocity by itself regardless.

Pummeling Style is the best weapon that Unarmed combatants have, and that is available to a Warpriest starting at lv1. But you can't have both Pummeling AND Dragon Styles active naturally with any Class besides Monk as-is.

If you want to COMBINE Dragon Ferocity with Pummeling Style, then yes, you need to dip Master of Many Styles. Just like everyone else in the game, including Brawlers.

---

Even then, there are a number of other possible builds using pure Sacred Fist that doesn't combine styles - Crane Style is now a fairly useful defense strategy, as is Snapping Turtle Style.

However, Styles are BEST when used in tandem, which means that ANYONE, not just Sacred Fists, who want to do so are going to need to dip 1-2 levels into MoMS.

Dipping into MoMS for a Snapping Turtle/Crane Style combo yields a character with a nifty AC that can then counterattack easily.

Shadow Lodge

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Here's a guy I came up with.

It's Hammer Time (PFS Legal)
Dwarf warpriest of Torag 7 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60)
LG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +4
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 10, flat-footed 18 (+8 armor)
hp 59 (7d8+21)
Fort +7, Ref +2, Will +9; +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training, sacred armor (+1, 7 minutes/day); Resist fire 2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Power Attack included
+1 adamantine warhammer +8 (1d8+11/×3)
or
+1 large adamantine warhammer +6 (2d6+11/×3)

Special Attacks blessings 6/day, channel positive energy 3/day (DC 17, 4d6), fervor 7/day (2d6), hatred, sacred weapon (+1 1d8, 7 rounds/day)
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +11)

3rd— **inflict serious wounds** (DC 17), prayer
2nd— aid, bull's strength, burst of radiance (DC 16), **inflict moderate wounds** (DC 16)
1st— bless, divine favor, entropic shield, **inflict light wounds** (2, DC 15)
0 (at will)— create water, detect magic, enhanced diplomacy, guidance, light

--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +6; CMD 18 (22 vs. bull rush, 22 vs. trip)
Feats Blessed Hammer (7), Bludgeoner (3)[UC], Enforcer (1)[APG], Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (warhammer, 1), Weapon Versatility
Traits defensive strategist, strength of the land
Skills Acrobatics -4 (-8 to jump), Climb +3, Heal +8, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (engineering) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perception +4 (+6 to notice unusual stonework), Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +4, Survival +8, Swim +3; Racial Modifiers lorekeeper, +2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ blessings (artifice: crafter's wrath, transfer magic, good: battle companion, holy strike), fire-forged steel
Other Gear +1 fire-forged steel field plate, +1 adamantine warhammer (medium or large), plus whatever gear required
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Blessed Hammer You can deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack with your warhammer.
Blessings (6/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Bludgeoner Inflict nonlethal damage with bludgeoning weapons
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Strategist Your study of dwarven history has trained you in defensive strategy. You aren't flat-footed during a surprise round that you don't get to act in or before you get to act at the start of a battle.
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Energy Resistance, Fire (2) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Enforcer If you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, make a free Intimidate check to demoralize.
Fervor (2d6, 7/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Fire-Forged Steel Dwarves stumbled across the secret of crafting fire-forged steel in an effort to make forge-friendly tools. It didn’t take them long to adapt its unique properties to arms and armor. Fire-forged steel channels heat in one direction to protect its w
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Lorekeeper +2 for Knowledge (History) checks relating to dwarves and their enemies. These checks can be made untrained.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sacred Armor +1 (7 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +1 (7 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs. unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Strength of the Land +1 trait bonus on CL checks while touching the ground or unworked stone.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 4d6 (3/day, DC 17) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Weapon Versatility Weapon w/ Weapon Focus: shift grip to alter damage to B/P/S (free act.).

He is a bit of a One Trick Pony, even for a Warpriest, or in this case, a Two Trick Pony after Level 7.

I gave him Bludgeoneer which allows him to Attack for Nonlethal Damage at no penalty with his Warhammer, the only weapon he will really be using, ever. Every time he hits for Nonlethal Damage, he gets a free Intimidate Check, and I've given him a few things t help boost Intimidate. Enhanced Diplomacy, if there is a chance to prebuff adds another +2. Additionally, he has Weapon Versatility as needed. I also decided to give him (or her) both a Medium and a Large sized Warhammer to allow for you to see which you like and pick. He doesn't actually have both, but one has a better chance to hit the other deals more damage.

You might also notice he has prepared a few Inflict Spells. With Blessed Hammer, (a Torag only Feat), he can become a little bit more like an actual Magus, channeling a Touch Spell though his Weapon rather tan his hand, and that is going to play in pretty well with the normal Warpriest's terrible Acton economy issues, allowing him to quick self buff, Standard Action cast an Inflict spell into his hammer (while not threatened), Move Action up, and Free Action Melee Attack with Hammer and Spell.

Downside, he is going to burn out fast. But, always has the Intimidate debuff to fall back on.

Intimidating Prowess adds your Str (and Cha) to Intimdate, but that's only a +3-+5, so you might want to swap that Feat out for something else. Possibly Extra Traits for some Init and something else. Up to you.

Sadly, this is also one of the biggest weak spots for the Warpriest. They are still stuck with just 1 Attack at this level, but do not really have enough casting ability to compensate for that, so the level 5 - 8 range is kind of boring an a bit underwhelming. There is still some room in there to optimize more if you like, too.

Also note that besides a weapon and armor, Hammer Time has no gear. Also, with the exception of Power Attack, he has no buffs on. Suggested Feats for later: Improved Crit, Weapon Specialization, Hammer the Gap, maybe Step Up?, Iron Hide, Fight On.


Wow blessed hammer looks really fun to use. Nice build

Shadow Lodge

It would be a lot better if there where more Cleric/Warpriest Touch spells to use. There is Bestow Curse, but it's probably not something a Warpriest is too worried about.

The other thing that kind of sucks is that Blessed Hammer only works with the Warhammer, (not all Hammer-like weapons), and the 3rd level spellcasting really freaking hurts the Warpriest with their very slow casting. Not so bad for a Cleric.


Yeah I'm thinking it might be better for a cleric or oracle. Maybe even a druid

Scarab Sages

Woodoodoo wrote:
Yeah I'm thinking it might be better for a cleric or oracle. Maybe even a druid

Blessed hammer works really well with a nature fang or Goliath druid


So I am new to the Warpriest and I was curious if someone could help me out with a build for a character that uses a two handed reach weapon primarily but also uses a bastard sword (its his gods weapon) on occasion. Race human, already rolled stat scores and got 18,17,16,15,16,15 using the roll 4 drop 1 method. that's without the human bonus added in. My DM doesn't do the trait swapping.

Shadow Lodge

Would need more info for a Build, but here are some suggestions:

Combat Reflexes Essential for a Reach Build.

Lunge Especially with Combat Reflexes and other to help ass extra Reach, you can become an AoO machine and a great Battlefield controller.

Spear Dancer works with any 2 handed Reach weapon, not jut spears an lets you start adding free debuffs in.

Combat Patrol, at later levels will add even more reach.

Dodge, Improved Init, Mobility, and Acrobatics (light armor) are also highly encouraged to set yourself up in the best position and then keep others from moving where you don't want them to.

If you pick a good tripping polearm, go with Improved Trip, which you can use in place of a Melee attack, which means you can use it for your AoO's, and try to max it out. So not only do you stop people's movement, you steal their actions, and set yourself up for 2 AoO's, one for their movement and one for them standing, can get a ridiculous reach, which you threaten, (and that far out, they don't threaten you so can't reverse the trip if you fail), and start adding a debuff.

With a Longspear set against charges, your Reach AoO's can be deadly.

That's a lot of Feats, so consider dipping a lever or two into Fighter, too.

Shadow Lodge

Assuming Ragathiel, I'd go something like this at 1st level:

Unnamed Hero
Human warpriest of Ragathiel 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60)
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +3
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +4 Dex)
hp 12 (1d8+4)
Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee
bastard sword +3 (1d10+3/19-20)
guisarme +4 (2d4+4/×3)
Special Attacks blessings 3/day, sacred weapon (1d6, 0)
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st—bless, divine favor
0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, guidance
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 17, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 15
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 17
Feats Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (guisarme)
Traits armor expert, rice runner <-Acrobatics as Class Skill
Skills Acrobatics +8, Climb +6, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (engineering) +6, Sense Motive +7
Languages Common
SQ blessings (good: battle companion, holy strike, nobility: inspiring word, lead by example)
Other Gear chain shirt, bastard sword, guisarme, 6 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Blessings (3/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Sacred Weapon (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.

Your main focus is going to be in increasing your accuracy and defense, not damage so much, acting fast, mobility, and keeping Dex high. Foes that can't attack, or more importantly, can't Full Attack are severely weakened threats, but Combat Maneuvers also become difficult to keep up with. Focus on opportune positioning, and know what battles you are going to have difficulty with.


Thanks. If i find out starting level Ill post back. Anything else you need? And yea, my bad Ragathiel was the right one


chbgraphicarts wrote:
Petrus Caietanus wrote:


Chbgraphicarts, could you please build an unarmed Sacred Fist too? I liked the scimitar version, but since Undone's build is outdated, I think it would be nice to see an (some) updated build(s).
I think I can come up with something.

Thanks! The build seems effective, althought I kinda miss monk's second level.. I like evasion, but a caster level is better. xD

chbgraphicarts wrote:


Only at lv15, which means it's useless for the purposes of PFS.

The reason is that Warpriests DO NOT count as Fighters except for their Bonus Combat Feats.

The BCF slots always check the Warpriest's level, counting its current Warpriest levels as those of a Fighter and as its appropriate BAB; that's why you can Retrains your 3rd Level Bonus Combat Feat to be Weapon Specialization at lv4 for the normal Warpriest.

The Sacred Fist, however, runs into a gigantic problem - it trades out Bonus Combat Feats for Bonus Style Feats and dependent Feats like Pummeling Charge, counting its levels as Monk for the purposes of those Bonus Feat slots.

The ONLY time the Sacred Fist gets s Bonus Feat slot that qualifies it as a Fighter is lv15. Since that's the one-and-only time you can get that, you're much, MUCH better off spending that slot on Greater Weapon Focus since it ups your pretty-abysmal accuracy.

Back when Flurry counted your Sacred Fist level as BAB, you didn't NEED to take GWF at lv15; now, if the game goes that high, it's kind of a requirement, honestly.

And that sucks, really.


The thread is dead, so now I ask...
How is the handbook's elaboration going?


dotting for future consult.. (for RotRL)

BHH


I'm confused by something pretty basic in the build guide.

Where does the 3rd combat bonus at level 1 come from?

1 feat for level one and 1 for being human I get but the third?

Shadow Lodge

Are you talking about the free Weapon Focus the warpriest gets?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

She's talking about the bonus feat that warpriests get at 3rd level. You don't get it at level 1, it's listed as: 3rd Combat Bonus) Power attack.


Doooh, colour me green and call me a mongrel, I completely missed that.


Merry belated Christmas, people. Eh, how's the elaboration of the (new) handbook going?


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Hi
Well, now i really have a Problem. I as a GM trusted this guide and one of my Players made a sacred fist, now lvl 3.

It becomes obvious, that this was an inferir or a bad choice and bad advice i gave him because of this guide.

i`m new to pathfinder and Need some advice now. My Player likes to Play an unarmed warpriest.

When i got it right, the best Option would be to Change his build to a warpriest favouring iori. Luckily we did build him as an Iori priest, so this wouldn`t cause to much Trouble.

Q1) Now, lets say he becomes a "normal" warpriest. He loses Flurry and we replace it with two weapon fighting?

Q2) should he be STR or DEX based? If DEX based how does he get a good damage outuput?

Q3) With this build there would be no Limitation for armor any longer, right?

q) In genreal, how can a unarmed WP improve his attacks in order to overcome or Bypass DR? Sacred Weapon only? Or enchanted brass Knuckles or some other enhancements for unarmed strike?

I would really like advice on this issue. Or a link to a good Warpriest guide which adresses an unamred WP.

thanks


The advice given in this guide was referring to the pre errata Sacred Fist.

If you feel that the Sacred fist is under performing you could simply allow your player to treat his level as BAB when flurrying. Problem solved.

Shadow Lodge

My suggestion would be to maybe look at Weapon Focus Spiked Gauntlet rather than Unarmed Strike. If you want to be Monk-like, you could still punch people, but could also benefit from things like Greater Magic Weapon (long lasting buff) in addition to Sacred Weapon.

Dex tends to be more required than Str for Feat selection, so I'd go with Dex and then use spells (Bull's Strength) to pump Str when needed. Warpriests do not get access to Cat's Grace, so doing it the other way around isn't really an option.

Doing this would not limit your armor, but you would want to probably stick to Light Armors for the most benefit from your high Dex, and also to maintain mobility.

At higher levels, Mithral Mountain Pattern or Mithral Agile Breastplate should be really good, and you can also augment them with the long lasting Magic Vestment. Alternatively, you could also look at no armor and instead going the Monk's Robe. It's not cheap, but it might be more along the lines of what you (the player) wants.

Unless you are deadest on Improved Unarmed Strike (vs Gauntlets/Spiked Gauntlet/Cestus/etc), your deity really doesn't matter. And if you go with the Monk's Robe idea, you would get IUS anyway).

A Warpriest/Monk could also qualify for Crusader's Flurry (allowing you to Flurry of Blows with your Deity's Favored Weapon), which could be interesting down the road.


Alex Mack wrote:

The advice given in this guide was referring to the pre errata Sacred Fist.

If you feel that the Sacred fist is under performing you could simply allow your player to treat his level as BAB when flurrying. Problem solved.

That sounds simple. Do i get this right:

I use the Monk table. Then i use Warpriest lvl as BAB. So a 4th Level warpriest would flurry like a 6th Level Monk? With +4/+4/–1?


Honestly, the guide was wrong even before the errata.

If you want to boost Sacred Fist, let him use his Warpriest level as Monk level in regard to his class feats, so a 4th level Warpriest has a flurry with +2/+2.


DM Beckett wrote:
A Warpriest/Monk could also qualify for Crusader's Flurry (allowing you to Flurry of Blows with your Deity's Favored Weapon), which could be interesting down the road.

I was wondering about this: do you use the classic Monk, or the Unchained Monk version of Flurry of Blows in this manner (Warpriest with Crusader's Flurry?)


everything that flurries uses the classic flurry, only the Umonk uses the UFlurry. Anything else that was to use the UFlurry would need to specifically say so.


Pantastic wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
A Warpriest/Monk could also qualify for Crusader's Flurry (allowing you to Flurry of Blows with your Deity's Favored Weapon), which could be interesting down the road.
I was wondering about this: do you use the classic Monk, or the Unchained Monk version of Flurry of Blows in this manner (Warpriest with Crusader's Flurry?)

If you're a multiclass Warpriest/ Unchained Monk, you'd use Unchained Monk flurry. If you're a Sacred Fist or Warpriest/ Regular Monk, it's regular flurry.

Crusader's Flurry doesn't give you flurry of blows, it just lets you use a particular weapon with whatever flurry of blows ability you already had.

Ironically, a Warpriest/ Unchained Monk 1 gets a better flurry of blows than a Sacred Fist, at least until the Sacred Fist starts getting extra attacks down the road.


Pantastic wrote:
I was wondering about this: do you use the classic Monk, or the Unchained Monk version of Flurry of Blows in this manner (Warpriest with Crusader's Flurry?)
BadBird wrote:
Crusader's Flurry doesn't give you flurry of blows, it just lets you use a particular weapon with whatever flurry of blows ability you already had.

Yeah ... I went back and read it after posting, realized that I had gotten my wires crossed, but didn't see an 'edit' button ....

BadBird wrote:
If you're a multiclass Warpriest/ Unchained Monk, you'd use Unchained Monk flurry. If you're a Sacred Fist or Warpriest/ Regular Monk, it's regular flurry.

Ok, thanks - that's exactly what I needed to know.

So, me being relatively new to Pathfinder, I'm assuming somebody has taken a Sacred Fist Warpriest (for the Monk's Flurry of Blows) and then used a big whomping weapon with it (since Sacred Fist loses the Sacred Weapon damage) to hit moderately hard, many times per round. Is a decent DPR build possible that way?

Right now, if I can figure out how to make it work, I'm leaning toward doing Warpriest (Sacred Fist) with Crusader's Flurry and a Weapon Finesse, using either a Scimitar (Dervish Dance) or something similar. Seems like the big two-handed whomper would be a waste, since most feats reward big bad weapons by making them do a single attack for massive damage, making Flurry of Blows sub-optimal for a 'big' weapon.

Thoughts?


DPR shouldn't be a problem at all for a Sacred Fist using a good weapon.

All other things being equal, two-handed power attack with a bigger weapon will do a decent chunk more damage than one-handed scimitar doing the same, but both work just fine. However...

The main issue with trying to go Dervish Dance is the feats - you need Weapon Proficiency with the weapon, and then Weapon Finesse + Dervish Dance + Weapon Focus + Crusader's Flurry to get going, which is level 7 at the least. With strength, you just need Proficiency + Focus + Crusader's Flurry, which works perfectly with feats 1/3/5 and lets you spend levels 1-4 making solid flurry attacks with unarmed strike - even while you hold the weapon and make all other attacks with it two-handed.

One rather unique option would be to do something like this:

Dual Talent Human: 14/16STR, 12DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 16/18WIS, 8CHA

1. Weapon Proficiency X
3. Weapon Focus X
5. Crusader's Flurry X
6. Human Favored Class Bonus: Channel Smite
7. Guided Hand

You use your reasonably effective strength score until level 7; then wisdom takes over for attack bonus (just at the point where things like items and level bonuses start to make wisdom much higher), and your reasonably effective strength is now put to work doing two-handed damage. Focusing on wisdom has a minor effect on Ki Pool and grants nice AC, but the really interesting effect is that you can use the Glory or Charm Minor Power for an amazingly strong defense - any enemy other than the one you're currently attacking has a steep DC save before they can do pretty much anything to harm you. Also, save spells like Instrument of Agony get pretty good.

If you really like the idea of Dervish Dance and Flurry, I'd suggest an Evangelist Cleric of Sarenrae with one level of Unchained Monk. Or even a (not Sacred Fist) Warpriest with one level of Unchained Monk.

In case it doesn't show, Monk/Clerics are kind of a thing with me...


If sacred fist Takes a level of UMonk then you have two different flurry abilities. You could either use the UFlurry or the SF flurry, but the levels and abilities would be tracked differently. So if you where a SF 10 UMonk1 you'd flurry like a lv1 Umonk or a lv10 SF, you couldn't flurry like a lv 11 Umonk or lv11 SF.


Chess Pwn wrote:
everything that flurries uses the classic flurry, only the Umonk uses the UFlurry. Anything else that was to use the UFlurry would need to specifically say so.

Is there actually a rules quote for this in Unchained or is that just the general assumption?


FAQ
unless an ability specifically says it stacks with similar abilities (such as an assassin's sneak attack), or adds in some way based on the character's total class levels (such as improved uncanny dodge), the abilities don't stack and you have to use them separately.\

ACG wrote:

While a character can multiclass with these parent classes,

this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities
don’t stack unless specified.

So since the flurries don't explicitly say they stack, they don't. Thus giving you two separate abilities that have to be used separately.

And yes, the line about multiclassing with parents doesn't just apply to parents. Anything that multiclasses and gives redundant abilities don't stack. It's just warning it may be more likely to happen with parent classes than with other classes.

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