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I'd be curious to know if anybody has created a homebrewed "full caster" alchemist. I like the peculiar mechanics of alchemical "casting", and I'd like to try to create a full caster version if it hasnt been done before.
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You could just use a transmuter wizard, switch the good save to Fortitude and replace normal casting by alchemy...and create level 7,8 and 9 extracts (this is the big job here).
You could just use a transmuter wizard, switch the good save to Fortitude and replace normal casting by alchemy...and create level 7,8 and 9 extracts (this is the big job here).
It wouldnt be too complicated, but I still think it's worth seeing if anyone did something before.
Take a look at the 3.5 sublime chord prestige class, that would be a good place to start.
So I've been thinking about this, and I think I might base general progression on the witch more than the wizard, with discoveries in place of hexes. MAYBE maintaining bombs. Perhaps focus him on buffing? Definitly give them "infusion" discovery for free.
Lose the mutagen stuff, poison stuff, and free feats. Keep bombs and the discoveries. Complete the spell list for 7-9. Done!
I'm not sure that would be a good idea. If you take a look at the wizard or witch spell lists, the high level stuff offers not much that fits the alchemist's flavor or mechanics.
For the same reason, making a wizard or witch that uses the alchemist's extracts mechanic is problematic. How do you handle conjuration or evocation spells? Summoning outsiders or unleashing chain lightnings is not something you should be able to do with extracts.
I would recommend another angle: Ask yourself what it is that you miss from the alchemist class as is and build on that. For example, if you want the alchemist to have access to more powerful polymorph spells, you could create an archetype based on that concept.
Hopefully, that doesn't come over as too negative, but I thought I'd point out the problems I see with your idea.
I'm not sure that would be a good idea. If you take a look at the wizard or witch spell lists, the high level stuff offers not much that fits the alchemist's flavor or mechanics.
For the same reason, making a wizard or witch that uses the alchemist's extracts mechanic is problematic. How do you handle conjuration or evocation spells? Summoning outsiders or unleashing chain lightnings is not something you should be able to do with extracts.
I would recommend another angle: Ask yourself what it is that you miss from the alchemist class as is and build on that. For example, if you want the alchemist to have access to more powerful polymorph spells, you could create an archetype based on that concept.
Hopefully, that doesn't come over as too negative, but I thought I'd point out the problems I see with your idea.
I understand the idea. I dont really WANT to offer the alchemist high level conjuration or evocation spells (though with a preservationist type, it could be interesting). The problem is, I've tried "casting" focused alchemists before and it doesnt work, so I'm trying to build something around that idea. As for the witch/wizard stuff, I associate things more with the leveling structure than the actual abilities.
Though I really think there should be a "transmutation sharing" alchemist archetype. It's the only way I will ever see "giant shape " in use.
So, if I understand you correctly, it's not about expanding the alchemist's list of extracts (at least not substantially), but more about 'stretching' the existing list over 9 spell levels? To give the alchemist early access to more powerful extracts and, in general, more extracts per day (so they will last longer)? That I could see.
So, if I understand you correctly, it's not about expanding the alchemist's list of extracts (at least not substantially), but more about 'stretching' the existing list over 9 spell levels? To give the alchemist early access to more powerful extracts and, in general, more extracts per day (so they will last longer)? That I could see.
Thats the general gist of things (though some high-level transmutation extracts could be interesting). Might require the creation of most of the extract list with custom extracts.
Edit: I guess it could be similar to the 3.5 "beguiler" and similar classes.
you do realize you can flavor your casting however you want. alchemists use a very specific form of alchemy and magic. who says the ray of frost isn't you throwing/telekinesising a jar of reagents at the enemy?
you do realize you can flavor your casting however you want. alchemists use a very specific form of alchemy and magic. who says the ray of frost isn't you throwing/telekinesising a jar of reagents at the enemy?
While I acknowledge this, "alchemy" is slightly different than actual casting for a few reasons:
1) All casting is equivalent to drinking a potion.
2) Extracts (with infusion) can be "shared" in advance.
3) Big c(alchemy) bonuses.
4) No cantrips
THe difference aint huge, but i think it's worth looking at.
When you say 'casting focus' what exactly do you mean. Most of the alchemist spells are buffs or utlitity spells. That doesnt really fit a conceptual niche for the thing they 'do', particularly in combat.
One thing I've looked at pretty heavily is maching actual alchemy and alchemical items a bigger party of the alchemist's activity. And I dont mean just bombinb, but also the control/debuff alchemical items. Particularly if you combine this with the swift alchemy rules from the Alchemy Manual, and give them the ability to scale dc's with level and the alchemist's ability scores, it can make for a meaningful contribution to their 'stuff'.
When you say 'casting focus' what exactly do you mean. Most of the alchemist spells are buffs or utlitity spells. That doesnt really fit a conceptual niche for the thing they 'do', particularly in combat.
One thing I've looked at pretty heavily is maching actual alchemy and alchemical items a bigger party of the alchemist's activity. And I dont mean just bombinb, but also the control/debuff alchemical items. Particularly if you combine this with the swift alchemy rules from the Alchemy Manual, and give them the ability to scale dc's with level and the alchemist's ability scores, it can make for a meaningful contribution to their 'stuff'.
I like that Kolokotroni! I had thought of similar things in the past, but had forgotten. Hm...
As for "casting focus" it's true it dont seem the most useful considering the spell list. I'm having a hard time expressing my desire.
When you say 'casting focus' what exactly do you mean. Most of the alchemist spells are buffs or utlitity spells. That doesnt really fit a conceptual niche for the thing they 'do', particularly in combat.
One thing I've looked at pretty heavily is maching actual alchemy and alchemical items a bigger party of the alchemist's activity. And I dont mean just bombinb, but also the control/debuff alchemical items. Particularly if you combine this with the swift alchemy rules from the Alchemy Manual, and give them the ability to scale dc's with level and the alchemist's ability scores, it can make for a meaningful contribution to their 'stuff'.
I like that Kolokotroni! I had thought of similar things in the past, but had forgotten. Hm...
As for "casting focus" it's true it dont seem the most useful considering the spell list. I'm having a hard time expressing my desire.
I get where you are coming from though. It seems like the alchemists main thing should come from, well alchemy, so i actually created an archetype that dumped the pseudo casting extracts entirely in favore of swift alchemy (put together alchemical items dramatically faster if you have the right ingredients on hand) and a focus on alchemical items, including for at least a few concoctions at a time, bypassing the cost and having scaling dcs for those items.
What this does is make poisons, alchemical items remedies and weapons, useful utility items. Especially if you consider some of the very interesting poisons and items in the alchemy manual and what appeared in ultimate equipment.
