Just want to reiterate what's been said above about staffs and wands. When I saw this post, they were the first things I thought of. They're just spells-in-a-box. Don't get me wrong, that's good, but so boring. If there are new magic items somewhere, I get excited. If there's are new staffs and wands, I "ignore" them. All a new staff or wand adds is a new list of spell(s) in the same old package.
In my opinion they should do something to the spells the caster is casting. Almost similar to metamagic rods. I think metamagic rods kind of took the place of wands/staffs doing something to the caster's spells. They should allow you to enhance your spells on the fly. Maybe all of your spells. At least in 4th/5th/whatever editions implements gave you a bonus on attack/damage like a weapon welder's weapons. Maybe not the most exciting thing, but still better then a spell-in-a-box.
-Kcinlive
Edit: Maybe that's the thought process that went into it? Wand/Staffs were setup to be the spells-in-a-box. Rods got all the (interesting/random)abilities that didn't fit under "spell-in-a-box". It's a thought anyway.
I may have to recant my statement about the Chime of Opening; upon looking at Mythic Knock, it appears that superior locks bypass all magic in the game completely. Who knew an item with anti-magical properties could only be 150gp?
Maybe I'm looking at it through a rose-colored lens, but I remember the Chime being an 'open anything' device...
I think the locks of superior nature are primarily out there for rogue niche protection. It's also completely understandable for high end lots to have magical components to them in sort of low key practical ways. Does the adventurer care about the spells that let a lock know what it's key is supposed to look like, probably not, but a locksmith sure does and a high skill check represents knowing how to follow this magic lock security. Admittedly this is all sort of retconning to explain game terms, but it's the best I could come up with.
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Wonderful items?
Are we ignoring GP value? Because the cloak of the manta Ray and the pearl of sirines are awesome...except they cost too much.
I still love the Helm of Brightness.
Yes to Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
Yes to original girdles of Giant Str.
Yes to combining them with magic warhammers, esp the dWarven Thrower and Hammer of Thunderbolts.
We always loved stumbling across a Frost Brand. +6 against fiery creatures and it puts out fires? With fire resistance on top? Awesome!!!
Giant Slaying swords were much loved. We fought giants all the time. Dragon Slayers were...nice if you fought the appropriate dragon, but otherwise meh.
Original Boots of Striding and Boots of Speed. Boing! and vroom! meant something.
Elven cloaks and boots were common and useful.
The Quiver of Ehlonna still rocks, as does Heward's Haversack, and the Ring of Sustenance is even improved!
For special situations, the Lyre of Building, and the Maul and Mattock of the Titans were quite cool.
Rods of Absorption and Books of Many Spells were very cool in the old version, especially if a multi-classed caster was using the latter.
And we still get a kick out of Portable Holes.
Rings of Free Action were easy and cool, but the thought of getting Elemental Command was woooooooooooot!
==Aelryinth
I think the locks of superior nature are primarily out there for rogue niche protection. It's also completely understandable for high end lots to have magical components to them in sort of low key practical ways. Does the adventurer care about the spells that let a lock know what it's key is supposed to look like, probably not, but a locksmith sure does and a high skill check represents knowing how to follow this magic lock security. Admittedly this is all sort of retconning to explain game terms, but it's the best I could come up with.
Yeah, I agree. I think my problem is it breaks my 'world-view' on the setting... that magic can solve or accomplish anything. The superior lock smacks that logic over the head.
I'd actually have those locks completely unable to unlock if in an antimagic field because they use magic in their properties. Thus the optimum person to unlock them is an arcane trickster who both has the skills and the spells. Sort of like a safe that's locked with an electronic component.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I have to say that I still have mad love for the Maul of the Titans. You get a fighter who can enlarge themselves, Power Attack, and every door you meet is LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO MY LITTLE FRIEND... BOOOOMMMMMM!!!!
Golem Manuals have always been a realized disappoint. At first you're like, "Wow, a book that has everything I need to make my own automaton of doom!!" Then you realize, "Oh I still need the body... which means I have to make it.. which (usually) means I don't have the skills or time to use this book."
I'd love to have a character just once pick one of these up and use it, but 4/4 times that these things have come up in games that I've ran, they are sold without a second thought.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I had one back in 1st Ed and it was cool. But really, a golem isn't as much of an unstoppable doom robot as you'd like it to be. It feels like a lot of money and time for something that might get busted up in your first high-level combat.
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Golem Manuals have always been a realized disappoint. At first you're like, "Wow, a book that has everything I need to make my own automaton of doom!!" Then you realize, "Oh I still need the body... which means I have to make it.. which (usually) means I don't have the skills or time to use this book."
I'd love to have a character just once pick one of these up and use it, but 4/4 times that these things have come up in games that I've ran, they are sold without a second thought.
You know what would be cool - and it would fit in well with a Gothic/Horror style campaign - if all the Golem manuals had an "emergency use" option. Change it from a potential "down time" item to be also used as a "we are all going to die anyway, so I might as well set off this bomb" item.
Recite the spells and then sprinkle the ashes on a twisted iron gate instead of a prepped body of an iron golem and it would make the whole affair insane.
Don't have a bunch of bodies on the ship for a flesh golem but you have the recently slain carcass of a giant shark? Instant defender in the water - or maybe not.
I would say for a creative application the more the animated target deviates from the core designed body the greater the variance in result an reliability (and loyalty). So on the dead body of a giant shark the missing criteria could be: Too big, one single body, not humanoid. Each deviation changing the potential outcome.
Some of these would end up hybrid of animated object/golem/undead and something else altogether horrid. Mechanically this could be an easy write up if it was formatted as a monster template (for each type of manual).
Just an idea....I think will change up my golem manuals in my 2nd ed game.
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It might be a good place to update the half-golem template from 3.5 when you try to golem-up an unorthodox creature.
Maybe fuse the Half-golem with whatever base item would be close - Huge, Animated Object - Twisted Iron Gate?
Maybe a new template - Tome Infused Construct. It would be more of a devils bargain sort of creation - so while it would share some of the core golem's traits they would each also have their own slew of drawbacks based off the numbers of deviation the caster was forced to take.
Something I will work on.
Yep, my group has a similar thing in place. You pick your +STAT/+armor/+attack bonuses almost like feats, while your AC/saves bonus goes up based on level on its own.
How does this impact WBL figures?
The efficient quiver.
It only holds 60 arrows. You know what else holds 60 arrows? Three quivers that you get for FREE when you buy the arrow. It only saves you 7 pounds of weight. There's no problem strapping on 12 quivers worth of specialty arrows and firing them all in the fight.
I agree that magic items were more FUN back in my 1st/2nd Ed days, though the Christmas Tree effect was in full swing even in those days. In fact, one of the reasons I preferred 2nd Ed to 1st was the broadening of what classes and characters could do (non-weapon proficiencies, cleric spheres, wizard schools, kits, etc.) was much broader and at least promised the possibility of making characters less gear-dependent for anything other than basic movement and combat. Then again, we hand-waved a lot of stuff in the olden days too. 3rd Ed was another step in that direction, though it came with its own new baggage as well.
I agree that you wouldn't be picking up a monster/DM book to reference DURING the game session even if you were also a GM, but I don't think knowledge segregation about what's in the books was ever going to be as clear-cut as Gygax suggested as the hobby grew and more people acquired that knowledge. Once the books were opened it was in every player/GM's head.
So perhaps a re-direct of the original question, framed in the light of looking back at previous editions, might be this:
What magic items that DID live up to the hype from earlier editions of the game could make more interesting Pathfinder magic items?
We did have plenty of boring items back in the day, too, but there are cool ones as well. What comes to mind?
I disagree with that.
You 2e with its clunky non weapon proficiencies as "more things the characters could do"
I saw it as less things.
Before, my character could just ride a pegasus if he found one.
Nope.. now I need Ride and Fly.
Magic items were more wondrous because, they were actually items of magic from a bygone age when magic was more powerful and more common and almost everyone could use almost every time except the ones specifically locked to certain classes.
you had to figure out puzzles and discover things.
Heck in our recent campaign, a first level war priest made an adamantium rapier in-between sessions.
Poof!
The magic items come along similarly.
Poof.
I strongly dislike magic creation because of it.
It's put a bland mechanical taste on the magic items as a result.
Then the Game Balance police had to apply the WBL nerd bat to tone down certain items.
(Gauntlets of Ogre Power don't even exist any more)
When I first played DnD, magic times where like watching the first few Harry Potter movies… MAGIC?? WOW.
Now it's like: Whats that? What's it do? pffft. Sell it.
Personally, I have favorite magic items that I still want for characters I play, even if they are sub optimal:
Flame tongue sword (not as cool as it was originally written)
elven chain
boots of striding and springing
bracers or brachiation (can you even get these anymore?)
I really dislike anything that just gives +X to a skill.
I think they ruined the item and made it mundane.. you kind of expect it to be something all elves wear now… like cloaks and boots of elven kind.
Sax Fifth Elven has them by the racks and rack in there.
They are so common and "meh" no one even wants them because they are "sub optimal"
The efficient quiver.
It only holds 60 arrows. You know what else holds 60 arrows? Three quivers that you get for FREE when you buy the arrow. It only saves you 7 pounds of weight. There's no problem strapping on 12 quivers worth of specialty arrows and firing them all in the fight.
I really want to see someone wearing 12 quivers of arrows and finding the right arrow using the drawing ammunition rules.
I would rule against that, you can wear a max of 2 quivers on your back in lieu of a back pack and one on the side of the belt in lieu of a scabbarded weapon.
I really want to see someone wearing 12 quivers of arrows and finding the right arrow using the drawing ammunition rules.The efficient quiver.
It only holds 60 arrows. You know what else holds 60 arrows? Three quivers that you get for FREE when you buy the arrow. It only saves you 7 pounds of weight. There's no problem strapping on 12 quivers worth of specialty arrows and firing them all in the fight.
By the rules there's no difference, you just draw the ammo as part of shooting and thats the end of it.
For versimilitude Its not that hard. Wicker basket backpack and just always keep the arrows in the same place: the quiver over your left shoulder is the adamantium, the quiver over your right shoulder is the silver blanched cold iron, blunt arrows in the middle, thistle arrows in the back for swarms...Certainly easier than quickdrawing a 2 handed sword.
I really want to see someone wearing 12 quivers of arrows and finding the right arrow using the drawing ammunition rules.The efficient quiver.
It only holds 60 arrows. You know what else holds 60 arrows? Three quivers that you get for FREE when you buy the arrow. It only saves you 7 pounds of weight. There's no problem strapping on 12 quivers worth of specialty arrows and firing them all in the fight.
By the rules there's no difference, you just draw the ammo as part of shooting and thats the end of it.
For versimilitude Its not that hard. Wicker basket backpack and just always keep the arrows in the same place: the quiver over your left shoulder is the adamantium, the quiver over your right shoulder is the silver blanched cold iron, blunt arrows in the middle, thistle arrows in the back for swarms...Certainly easier than quickdrawing a 2 handed sword.
Where do you draw a two handed sword from that is nearly as tall if not taller than your character?
So perhaps a re-direct of the original question, framed in the light of looking back at previous editions, might be this:
What magic items that DID live up to the hype from earlier editions of the game could make more interesting Pathfinder magic items?
We did have plenty of boring items back in the day, too, but there are cool ones as well. What comes to mind?
I really miss longtooth daggers, swords of sharpness and the original versions of cloaks of the bat and the wounding weapon effect.
-TimD
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Going back to the OP question outside of anything else, I've always felt the Portable Hole was lacking. It's a very wide-mouthed Bag of Holding. Though I've seen some creative uses, it's always felt bland to me.
To me, a Portable Hole is a hole that follows cartoon physics. Something you slap on a wall to make a hole. Fortunately, it's actually really easy to stat out such an item. (Constant Passwall effect simulates it nicely.)
How does this impact WBL figures?Yep, my group has a similar thing in place. You pick your +STAT/+armor/+attack bonuses almost like feats, while your AC/saves bonus goes up based on level on its own.
I personally don't adjust - intentionally so, as the entire purpose of this system was to open up space for cooler/more fun equipment, which is kind of rendered moot if you reduce the expected wealth to "compensate for" or "pay for" the Inherent bonuses.
Yeah it means my PCs are a little more powerful than usual, but Bad Guys get the Inherents too, unless they're mooks I'm too lazy to power up.
If we replaced the big six items with a system that automatically increases attacks and defenses as you level, it would smell like 4e :-)
But it's interesting. Instead of those items, you'd select an ability score for a streamlined +1 at each level (instead of every 4 levels, or +2 every 3 levels).
And the freed spots could be used for more exotic items. I've always had GMs that made up items with special powers not found in any spell. Not always useful, but always a laugh.
As for items that don't live up the magic, scrolls. Especially randomly-generated scrolls in a party with no wizard, which has happened more often than not in my groups. Side note: I once played with a guy who always made wizards, and who always insisted to get the lion's share of the loot because, you know, writing spells is costly. And he got all the scrolls, too. And most of the XP (that was back in the days when you'd get XP just to cast a spell). /Side note
$0.02
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They were random.
(edit: I just looked them up)
Well I remember a character that had Ruby Gloves of the Giant, I think they were. They gave him +4 Str, but then they also reduced Fire damage by 50% AND +4 saving throws vs. Fire.
I also had a Hyena Bow of the Moon, +2 to ALL Stats, BUT I couldn't cast any spells whatsoever. My Fighter/Thief did not care.
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Or another example:
I had another character who ended up getting a randomly generated magic weapon from a Deck of Many Things. My older brother who was DM rolled up a Meteor Sling of Slaughter. The Meteor prefix gave it +5 to attack, the Slaughter suffix gave it +5 to damage. So really, all in all, it was a +5 sling. But the fact it was the "Meteor Sling of Slaughter!" dun dun dun! made it so much cooler.