Dr. Christina Hoff Sommers takes a look at video games


Video Games

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Ashiel wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Pfff... Tekken is the best Namco fighter!

...And Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 is the hypest of fighting games! ^^

Street Fighter vs Tekken never existed and shall not be discussed. :P

Ooh, I love UMVC3, and I'd love to play that some more. I generally play Morrigan, Trish, and Virgil (kind of a devil team, I guess? :P).

I reeeaally love Morrigan. :D

Cheap bastard... ^^

Well, at least it's not MorriDoom...

I honestly can't say what team is my favorite, I love so many characters in that game... It's usually Wesker +2, though. Heh... I think the ones I play the most is Wesker and (in o particular order) X-23, Magneto, Nova, Akuma (He's is surprisingly fun to play in this game, and I never like shotokans), Strider Hiryu, Trish, Storm, Ammy, Dormammu, Dante, Wolverine, Taskmaster, Felicia and Haggar. These are the ones I can actually do cool stuff and win fights against skilled players, at least (also, Morrigan, Phoenix, Zero, Vergil and Dr.Doom, but that's because they are cheap as hell!). ;)

Really, the only character I don't enjoy playing are Ryu (Akuma is so much more fun!)and Iron Man (clumsy mobility, IMO). T.Bonne was more fun in vanilla MvC3, but she's still cool in Ultimate.

Ashiel wrote:
I just bought SC V off Xbox live for $15.99. I asked my brother about IV or V, he said V, so that's what we got for now (I might get IV after my next paycheck or something).

I prefer SC IV, since it has the characters I know (and like) best. Although SCV is not a bad game (it just has a really bad story, IMO).


Yeah but, freal...since when has the SC story EVER been any good?

Though V was particularly bad.


Rynjin wrote:

Are there ANY characters in GTA V that are portrayed well?

The main characters are: A sociopathic car thief cum getaway driver, a sociopathic (but trying to reform, sort of) ex bank robber, and a full blown psycopath redneck thug.

Didn't say there was, but the person said for any game you mention bad portrayals of women, they can give good ones, which isn't the case for GTAV.

Quote:


The side characters run the gamut from someone who does nothing but smoke some seriously whacked out marijuana to a character who thinks aliens are arriving on Earth to an old couple who want you to bust into celebrity homes to steal souvenirs for them.

There is NO character that is portrayed as a normal upstanding member of society. Because that's not the point. The closest thing we get is Franklin's aunt, and she's not normal either (but definitely not sexualized, so you're wrong in saying there's not one. She's just a straw feminist/every woman who jumps on the hot new bandwagon person).

Yeah, which is then a BAD portrayal of her, not a good one. So she still counts, and even if she herself doesn't directly, she still gets treated in a sexist manner by Franklin on many occasions.

As I said, I like the game, but that doesn't change the fact that every woman is either sexualized or treated in a sexist manner. Again, yes it's satire, but the word "satire" isn't a magic eraser.


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

I honestly have no idea how you got that from what I said...

All I meant is that if a man goes to the authorities and says his wife/girlfriend/random woman raped or assaulted him, chances are they will laugh at him and send him on his way, rather than take his claims seriously.

Okay, then I apologize, but the way you said it isn't always true. There are MANY women who walk into the police station and say "My husband raped me" and they are told to go home, that's not rape.

So, yes anyone that comes in with a claim of assault or rape should be taken seriously, regardless of their gender, in fact that was a big part of Emma Watson's recent speech to the UN. Feminism is a issue for men and women.

Don't say "Men get raped too." say "Stop raping people."

putting resources into helping victims gets some actual results. telling bad people not to do things makes them laugh before doing it anyway


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

I honestly have no idea how you got that from what I said...

All I meant is that if a man goes to the authorities and says his wife/girlfriend/random woman raped or assaulted him, chances are they will laugh at him and send him on his way, rather than take his claims seriously.

Okay, then I apologize, but the way you said it isn't always true. There are MANY women who walk into the police station and say "My husband raped me" and they are told to go home, that's not rape.

True... But i'd bet money that not nearly as common as the man being laughed off.

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Don't say "Men get raped too." say "Stop raping people."

I usually assume that's not something that needs saying in modernized countries, just like "Don't murder people". Sure, murder and crime still happen, but not because the society encourages it. It happens despite modern society's efforts to stop it.

Rapists and murderers are the exception, not the rule.

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Also, I know a lot of you don't like her, and I've said I don't always agree with her, but Anita Sarkeesian said "Satirical sexism is still sexism."

Mentioning Anita never strengthens your argument. Ever.

And the whole point of satire is to make fun of real issues. Saying "Satirical X is just as bad as real X" completely misses the point.


Rynjin wrote:

Yeah but, freal...since when has the SC story EVER been any good?

Though V was particularly bad.

Well... No fighting game has particularly good storyline (In fact, most, if not all, of them are pretty bad)... It takes a back seat to game mechanics (as it should be! The fun in FGs is in facing your friends, not the story-telling! Some of my favorite Fgs don't even have an story-line! e.g.: Marvel vs Capcom franchise, Tekken Tag, and KoF 2002), but honestly... As far as FGs go, SC used to have one of the best story-lines... At least up to III. I don't remember SCIV's story very well... And SCV's is... atrocious.


Lemmy wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

I honestly have no idea how you got that from what I said...

All I meant is that if a man goes to the authorities and says his wife/girlfriend/random woman raped or assaulted him, chances are they will laugh at him and send him on his way, rather than take his claims seriously.

Okay, then I apologize, but the way you said it isn't always true. There are MANY women who walk into the police station and say "My husband raped me" and they are told to go home, that's not rape.

True... But i'd bet money that not nearly as common as the man being laughed off.

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Don't say "Men get raped too." say "Stop raping people."

I usually assume that's not something that needs saying in modernized countries, just like "Don't murder people". Sure, murder and crime still happen, but not because the society encourages it. It happens despite modern society's efforts to stop it.

Rapists and murderers are the exception, not the rule.

Check Your Hand Stamp and Avoid Police: The Latest Anti-Rape Advice for Women Yes, you read that right... avoid police. Don't speed, cause you might get pulled over and raped a by a cop. That's actual advice given to women by a cop when some women were raped by a cop on a traffic stop.

Here is the quote from the article...

"that women can keep their car doors locked and speak through a cracked window if a trooper approaches them. If the trooper asks a woman to get out of the car, Brown said, she can ask ‘in a polite way’ why he wants her to do that. But the ‘best tip that he can give,’ the anchor said on air of his interview with Brown, ‘is to follow the law in the first place so you don’t get pulled over.’”

That is actual advice from a state trooper for women to avoid being raped by a cop.

And yes, I know the hatred for Anita in the gaming community is strong, guess how much I care.


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

Are there ANY characters in GTA V that are portrayed well?

The main characters are: A sociopathic car thief cum getaway driver, a sociopathic (but trying to reform, sort of) ex bank robber, and a full blown psycopath redneck thug.

Didn't say there was, but the person said for any game you mention bad portrayals of women, they can give good ones, which isn't the case for GTAV.

Quote:


The side characters run the gamut from someone who does nothing but smoke some seriously whacked out marijuana to a character who thinks aliens are arriving on Earth to an old couple who want you to bust into celebrity homes to steal souvenirs for them.

There is NO character that is portrayed as a normal upstanding member of society. Because that's not the point. The closest thing we get is Franklin's aunt, and she's not normal either (but definitely not sexualized, so you're wrong in saying there's not one. She's just a straw feminist/every woman who jumps on the hot new bandwagon person).

Yeah, which is then a BAD portrayal of her, not a good one. So she still counts, and even if she herself doesn't directly, she still gets treated in a sexist manner by Franklin on many occasions.

As I said, I like the game, but that doesn't change the fact that every woman is either sexualized or treated in a sexist manner. Again, yes it's satire, but the word "satire" isn't a magic eraser.

If it were ONLY treating women poorly, you'd have a point. But it's not.

It stereotypes all men as idiots, criminals, both or worse. It stereotypes women as idiots, criminals, both or worse.

You can't cherry pick examples like that. In the internal logic of the story, these women are normal, treated no differently from any other character. Namely, as vehicles to either crack jokes about, or crack across the head. Or both.

One is not worse than the other. If one is acceptable for the purpose of satire, then so is the other. You enjoy the game, as do I. So that means you must find at least some part of the game acceptable.

If it were sexist, it would treat the women characters all like this, but have the main male characters be heroic, upstanding citizens, etc.

What you'd be looking at in that case would be something more along the lines of, say, Duke Nukem, which is also satirical but makes a few too many jokes at the expense of women over men.


Gonna leave this YouTube song link from a woman of many talents (some of which she very much regrets) who was born in Steubenville, OH about her hometown, and I'm outta this thread... (for real this time, after this I've not nothing else to say)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J7H6DzO2qk


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:

Check Your Hand Stamp and Avoid Police: The Latest Anti-Rape Advice for Women Yes, you read that right... avoid police. Don't speed, cause you might get pulled over and raped a by a cop. That's actual advice given to women by a cop when some women were raped by a cop on a traffic stop.

Here is the quote from the article...

"that women can keep their car doors locked and speak through a cracked window if a trooper approaches them. If the trooper asks a woman to get out of the car, Brown said, she can ask ‘in a polite way’ why he wants her to do that. But the ‘best tip that he can give,’ the anchor said on air of his interview with Brown, ‘is to follow the law in the first place so you don’t get pulled over.’”

That is actual advice from a state trooper for women to avoid being raped by a cop.

I fail to see how that has any relevance to what I said. I never denied that rape happens. But I bet female victims are taken seriously far more often than male victims.

I've seen dishonest girls threaten to accuse innocent men of rape as revenge. Try to pull that off as a man and see how well it goes...

Do women fall victim to bigotry and violence? Of course they do. So do men.

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
And yes, I know the hatred for Anita in the gaming community is strong, guess how much I care.

About as much as I (or anyone who ever played the games she mentions) care about her flawed logic and dishonest claims that gamers are sexist because they play games where they have to save the princess?


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Lemmy wrote:
About as much as I (or anyone who ever played the games she mentions) care about her flawed logic and dishonest claims that gamers are sexist because they play games where they have to save the princess?

Gah, I can't stay away from this thread when I see stuff like this...

So, you watched how many of her videos and latched onto that, and nothing she says can be at all even correct? As I've said, and I've even said it to her on Twitter and she retweeted me... I don't agree with everything she says, but she makes some good points, and at least makes me think about ways we can improve the way women are portrayed in video games.

Okay, so Im hoping I can leave this thread now, but not saying for sure anymore... I guess we'll see if I can stay away... I really should, I know since as someone who agrees with even 10% of what Anita says, I'm still the odd male feminist out.

As for the relevance of the article, there is very little spent on telling men how not to rape. It's all about how women can avoid getting raped. So, for example, if a woman is really damn drunk, is it okay to have sex with her? She's drunk off her ass and probably won't remember it in the morning, oh and you did slip her some drugs and she's unconscious now, so she's not saying no, it's not rape? This is actual thoughts of many men, especially on college campuses, and many times they get off (no pun intended) with barely even an slap on the wrist and the girl is told "well, you shouldn't have been drinking and you wouldn't have been raped" That's the relevance.

It's not telling men "Don't have sex with a drunk woman." it's telling women "Don't get drunk, and you won't get raped." when it should be the other way around!


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
About as much as I (or anyone who ever played the games she mentions) care about her flawed logic and dishonest claims that gamers are sexist because they play games where they have to save the princess?

Gah, I can't stay away from this thread when I see stuff like this...

So, you watched how many of her videos and latched onto that, and nothing she says can be at all even correct? As I've said, and I've even said it to her on Twitter and she retweeted me... I don't agree with everything she says, but she makes some good points, and at least makes me think about ways we can improve the way women are portrayed in video games.

Okay, so Im hoping I can leave this thread now, but not saying for sure anymore... I guess we'll see if I can stay away... I really should, I know since as someone who agrees with even 10% of what Anita says, I'm still the odd male feminist out.

I've actually seen her videos... Or at least, two of them, that's all I could stomach. Her claims are much more often than not, just different wordings of "games are sexist, because damsel in distress".

The video where she mentions Manhunter as a game that encourages players to maim and kill women who only exist to be sexualized and tortured is disgustingly dishonest.

If there is any instance where she makes any good point, it's drowned in a sea of lies, cherry-picking and misinformation. She's not only yet another fear-mongering professional victim, she is a scam artist.


Lemmy wrote:


I've actually seen her videos... Or at least, two of them, that's all I could stomach. Her claims are much more often than not, just different wordings of "games are sexist, because damsel in distress".

The video where she mentions Manhunter as a game that encourages players to maim and kill women who only exist to be sexualized and tortured is disgustingly dishonest.

If there is any instance where she makes any good point, it's drowned in a sea of lies, cherry-picking and misinformation. She's not only yet another fear-mongering professional victim, she is a scam artist.

Two huh? Hmm. I guess I now know which two by what you've said. I can give you some point to Manhunter, although I wouldn't go so far as to say "disgustingly dishonest" because as far as I can tell of the game (I haven't played it) it's a game that encourages players to maim and kill people who only exist to be murdered and tortured... not sure where that makes it any less horrible when you do it to a man except that in her case she's talking about how women are portrayed, unless you are saying there are no female victims in the game?


Violent criminals are not like everyone else. They are people with severe empathy dysfunction, bad impulse control, or both, generally. These are handicaps you really don't understand from the popular science image of them. Try it. Try to imagine yourself surrounded by people you can't understand, indeed, never have been able to understand what they are feeling, but who treat you badly because they think you are a creep. Or imagine that every thought about something you want means you act on getting it... Only to be faced with the consequences of having done so after the fact. Imagine your life having been like this as far back as you can remember. Not quite your life, is it? To quote a good movie, it's pretty f&!!ing far from okay. How common are these defects? Well, one in ten, maybe, at some level of the handicap.

So... If you were to exclude these people from the statistics, who would be left among the perps? A lot of drug/alcohol situations, which are an artificial way to get the above handicaps. Beyond that? People in situations of extreme pressure. Psychosis, severe anxiety, other personality disorders, confusion, all are things that bring about the above, and slightly increase the risk of violence. See, normally functioning people generally don't enjoy beating or raping people. Part of the definition of normal.

A consequence of this, then, is that you need to be careful about who you are around. You need to be even more careful who you get drunk with. This goes equally for men and women, by the way, before you claim it is victim blaming. Be careful. Take precautions. Leave if the party gets too drunk and take your friends with you. If s+*# is starting to happen, call the cops. If your husband or wife has a serious drinking problem, leave them unless they deal with it.


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Sissyl wrote:

Violent criminals are not like everyone else. They are people with severe empathy dysfunction, bad impulse control, or both, generally. These are handicaps you really don't understand from the popular science image of them. Try it. Try to imagine yourself surrounded by people you can't understand, indeed, never have been able to understand what they are feeling, but who treat you badly because they think you are a creep. Or imagine that every thought about something you want means you act on getting it... Only to be faced with the consequences of having done so after the fact. Imagine your life having been like this as far back as you can remember. Not quite your life, is it? To quote a good movie, it's pretty f&+&ing far from okay. How common are these defects? Well, one in ten, maybe, at some level of the handicap.

So... If you were to exclude these people from the statistics, who would be left among the perps? A lot of drug/alcohol situations, which are an artificial way to get the above handicaps. Beyond that? People in situations of extreme pressure. Psychosis, severe anxiety, other personality disorders, confusion, all are things that bring about the above, and slightly increase the risk of violence. See, normally functioning people generally don't enjoy beating or raping people. Part of the definition of normal.

A consequence of this, then, is that you need to be careful about who you are around. You need to be even more careful who you get drunk with. This goes equally for men and women, by the way, before you claim it is victim blaming. Be careful. Take precautions. Leave if the party gets too drunk and take your friends with you. If s$$* is starting to happen, call the cops. If your husband or wife has a serious drinking problem, leave them unless they deal with it.

Eeek you triple posted...

As for what you said, that's true. But, there are cases where someone who is not violent or a psychopath might not even think about something as wrong, until they are told.

For example, in my 20's (I didn't ever get the chance) I never even considered that having sex with a drunk girl could be seen as raping her. Now, in my 30's I believe that if she's drunk, then don't have sex with her. Was I a psychopath potential rapist in my 20's? No, I was just misinformed.

As for the last part of your thing, what about when someone slips a girl a roofie, or as in my article I posted, what about when she gets pulled over by a cop? Why are we telling women how to avoid being raped by a cop? We should be making sure cops do not rape!


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

I've actually seen her videos... Or at least, two of them, that's all I could stomach. Her claims are much more often than not, just different wordings of "games are sexist, because damsel in distress".

The video where she mentions Manhunter as a game that encourages players to maim and kill women who only exist to be sexualized and tortured is disgustingly dishonest.

If there is any instance where she makes any good point, it's drowned in a sea of lies, cherry-picking and misinformation. She's not only yet another fear-mongering professional victim, she is a scam artist.

Two huh? Hmm. I guess I now know which two by what you've said. I can give you some point to Manhunter, although I wouldn't go so far as to say "disgustingly dishonest" because as far as I can tell of the game (I haven't played it) it's a game that encourages players to maim and kill people who only exist to be murdered and tortured...

Yeah... Like literally every game that includes combat. Including Pathfinder. How many NPCs has your GM thrown at your group only to be killed/maimed by the party?

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
(...) not sure where that makes it any less horrible when you do it to a man, unless you are saying there are no female victims in the game?

She mentions that the game game encourages the player to kill innocent strippers and then fool around with their corpses... There's nothing of the sort in the game. While you can kill the girls and move around their corpses, you can do the same to every other character in the game, and you're penalized for doing so (just like you're penalized for killing anyone other than your intended target) and players are capable (and encouraged) to sneak around unnoticed, both by the strippers and by the security. She says the game is sexist because it takes place in a strip club (where obviously, there are half-naked women), but that's only true of 3 segments (out of 7!) of 1 mission (out of 20!).

But according to Anita, "players are meant to derive some perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting female characters".

That's what I'd classify as "shameless lying".


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
As for the last part of your thing, what about when someone slips a girl a roofie, or as in my article I posted, what about when she gets pulled over by a cop? Why are we telling women how to avoid being raped by a cop? We should be making sure cops do not rape!

You should be doing BOTH. One does not preclude the other.


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Why are we telling women how to avoid being raped by a cop? We should be making sure cops do not rape!

Those are not mutually exclusive, you know?

No one should murder anyone. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be foolish to take precautions against being murdered.

"Why are you telling me to lock my doors instead of making sure people are not robbing me?" is just as nonsensical.

As a society, we do our best to prevent and punish crime (including rape), but we are also aware that no matter how much we try to stop it, some people will do it anyway, so we advise others to be careful and suggest possible precautions.

EDIT: Ninja'd by BNW.


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:

a wife who cheats on her husband with the yoga instructor, a daughter that works as webcam girl and calls herself "Tracey Suxx" who later tries to get into porn movies, etc. The point is, even among ALL the bad portrayals of everyone, there isn't a single non-sex based portrayal of women in that game.

And now, it bears saying I have no problem with strippers, prostitutes, porn stars, especially not webcam girls... but when that along with a cheating wife (oh and she's an ex-stripper whose husband bought her implants even before she quit and married him) and an ex-FIB (GTA world's equivalent of FBI) agent who once dated and slept with a thug to get close to his operation and ends up dead is all the game has

So 4 x 3 = 12

Spoilers Beyond This Line
Aeris Gainsburough (FF7). If you've played FFVII for about 30 minutes you might think Aeris is a "damsel", since there are evil government guys after her and the main character is supposedly supposed to "protect her". If you've played for more than 30 minutes, however, you'll find that she actually ends up doing more of the escorting than the main character during her period of "needing rescuing". She's basically Jesus. Even when your team defeats the BBEG, she's the one that saves the world.

Tifa Lockheart (FF7). Tough as nails, independent, and she ends up rescuing her love and the main character, helping him to overcome mental illness and paralysis that he cannot on his own. In addition to being integral to the entire plot, she's intelligent, strong willed, and courageous.

Agrias Oaks (FFT). Agrias is a Holy Knight that serves as the lead bodyguard of Princess Ovelia. After discovering a conspiracy involving the church and the royal family and an ancient evil, she joins with the main character. She is far from eye candy, is honorable, disciplined, and one of the strongest characters in the game.

Miluda (FFT). A freedom fighting rebel fighting for equality between the peasantry an the nobility. She is courageous and principled and dies fighting for her beliefs. Despite being a minor character in the grand scheme, her death influences the other characters deeply (altering the perceptions of the protagonists and jarring their faith in the system).

Altima (FFT). The end boss and most powerful enemy in final fantasy tactics. An angel of death and destruction, she commands all the Lucavi. She's basically a cosmic superbeing with attitude. She is the strongest single enemy that you can fight during the course of the game.

Side Note: Female characters in FFT are actually stronger than their male counterparts because they have more tactical options in the game, including several female-only weapons, accessories, headgears that grant incredible status buffs and in some cases literally makes it impossible to be slain (one of the perfumes gives you constant re-raise, which means you auto-revive when killed by HP damage).

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve). Despite being sexy in a lot of ways, Aya is pretty much the opposite of everything resembling Anita's complaints, though I suppose "violence against women" might be a thing since there's stuff trying to kill you (Aya) the entire game. She's a police officer that ends up fighting through hell and back to protect people, and she's tough, smart, relatable, and wears t-shirt, jeans, and a leather jacket through most of the game. She generally ends up saving all the damnsels (read as "everyone" and "mostly men") throughout the game, and if you complete the EX content, the only time she's ever saved by anyone in a fight she couldn't conceivably win was through the help of another woman, her sister.

Mitochondria Eve (Paraite Eve). The villain of parasite eve. Basically carries out and effectively succeeds at her plan at pretty much every step of the way, and is only able to be contested and defeated by Aya. She basically wrecks everybody. She's also pretty damn cool.

Emilia (Saga Frontier). Is framed for the murder of her fiance and sentenced to life in prison in one of the many realms. Along with two of her fellow female friends, ends up escaping through their ingenuity and combat skill. Goes on to look for the one who framed her and killed her fiance, eventually tracking down the culprit to find a bit of a surprise waiting. Regardless, she's also a pretty epic lady, and so are her two main buddies. She can also recruit a number of other powerful female friends of desired.

Asellus (Saga Frontier). A human girl who is captured by a powerful mystic, the ruler of mystics, known as the charm lord. Due to a blood transfusion from the evil charm lord himself, she becomes a half-mystic, and inherits abilities associated with it. She is to be one of his concubines but decides to leave instead, where she ends up on a whirlwind adventure across the realms while being hounded by lots of minions of the charm lord, and eventually ends up rescuing a human girl (who begins Asellus' story by reciting the tale of her). She has three different endings, wherein she can either decide to live as a human, go on embracing her entirety (IMHO the best ending, YMMV), or embrace the mystic lifestyle (in which case she overthrows the charm lord and claims all of his concubines as her own, and is kind of a jerk).

Terra (FF6). A mysterious woman with magic, initially ends up being the #1 interest of a corrupt empire due to her power. She initially suffers from amnesia due to the effects of a mind-altering device used to try to control her, which results in her being rescued, but mostly so her rescuers can beg for her help. Later her memory returns and you find that she's a grade-A badass superpowered awesome-folk.

Celes (FF6). A former general of a corrupt empire, she was branded a traitor after she protested the horrors that their nation was inflicting on the world. A powerful magic knight, she is rescued on accident (one of the other main characters happens to be passing through and releases her), but she quickly becomes the big deal in the subplot where the two are involved, being both potent at melee and magical combat. Her unique runic sword ability and magic expertise is pretty necessary. Later she is responsible for reuniting all the heroes to save the world.

Quistis Trepp (FF8). A professor at the Balamb Garden institute that trains the SEED special forces for which the main character is a member of, Quistis is the main character's senior, instructor, and outranks him initially. It's also noted that she is something of a prodigy as she is very accomplished for her age. She's also damn skilled with a violin, and generally instructs you on how things work early on. She eventually opts to go with you rather remain an instructor. She also possesses a coed fanclub called the Treppies.

That's 12 female characters who are awesome, not portrayed in bad ways, and/or not presented as sexual objects. That's just from one developer's games alone (Squaresoft).

And here's a bonus one. While GTA is pretty rotten all around (intentionally), you might find more suitable with Miss Bonnie McFarlane in another of Rockstar's Titles: Red Dead Redemption; or the wife of the protagonist. Both are really great characters, and neither of them have anything to be ashamed of. John Marston's wife was a saloon gal (as in a prostitute), but if you consider who Marston was, he wasn't exactly a polished pearl either (but as Marston and his wife show, having a past that neither is proud of isn't the measure of your worth in the present; though honestly I have nothing against strippers or prostitutes, regardless of gender).


Lemmy wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Why are we telling women how to avoid being raped by a cop? We should be making sure cops do not rape!

Those are not mutually exclusive, you know?

No one should murder anyone. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be foolish to take precautions against being murdered.

"Why are you telling me to lock my doors instead of making sure people are not robbing me?" is just as nonsensical.

As a society, we do our best to prevent and punish crime (including rape), but we are also aware that no matter how much we try, some people will do it anyway, so we advise others to be careful and suggest possible precautions.

EDIT: Ninja'd by BNW.

Yes, we should... but so often we do not. So often even as a man, all I see is "How not to get raped" very rarely do I see "How not to rape". Look at Steubenville, OH or any other college town (Hell for the latest stuff that has me going WHAT THE **** look up Kansas University, which is a mere 30 miles from me). I will be a bit more clear about something I said earlier... if I had not started hanging out with and talking to feminists and become one myself, I would still think that having sex with a girl drunk off her ass was okay. I am not a rapist, I would never even consider raping a woman intentionally... and there is the key for so many... intentional or not, rape is rape. So, we need to educate on exactly what rape is.

As for doing our best to prevent and punish rape, so many times it's more about "What did you do to put yourself in a position to be raped?"

Say you were driving down the street and stopped at a stop sign. Suddenly a man runs up shoots you in the head (through the glass) and steals your car. Luckily you are taken to the hospital. First thing the cops ask you would be.... "What were you doing in that part of town at a stop sign? You really should have run the stop sign in that kind of neighborhood. It's your own fault you were shot in the head and carjacked." Yes, thats absurd, but that kind of "blame the victim" is very much what is done in rape cases more often than not.

And I just realized, this is all getting grossly off topic for the video games forum...


Ashiel wrote:


Tifa Lockheart (FF7). Tough as nails, independent, and she ends up rescuing her love and the main character, helping him to overcome mental illness and paralysis that he cannot on his own. In addition to being integral to the entire plot, she's intelligent, strong willed, and courageous.

Oh, well I didn't know you were going to go to other games to get your examples, but yeah Squaresoft is pretty awesome... although, I will say that (and it's why I quoted Tifa) a woman I am no longer friends with hated Tifa, mainly cause as tough as she was, she was also in your face DD's compared to every other female character in FF7 being much smaller chested. I mean, I like Tifa don't get me wrong, but I did kinda see her point.

As for Parasite Eve, OMG I love Parasite Eve! I even have the DVD of the movie (yes, the movie, if you haven't seen it you should. It's based more directly on the book (the games are sequels to the book), and it's therefore the story of what happened in Tokyo right before Aya and her sister had their accident and needed organ transplants...)


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Yes, we should... but so often we do not. So often even as a man, all I see is "How not to get raped" very rarely do I see "How not to rape".

How exactly do we teach "how not to rape"? Not-raping is pretty f@+%ing easy! I'm doing it right now. So are you.

In fact, I've been doing it my whole life. Never needed to be told how to do it!

Modern society heavily condemn rape. Ever since I can remember, it's been presented to me as a horrible thing to do. Just like murder, robbery, etc.

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Say you were driving down the street and stopped at a stop sign. Suddenly a man runs up shoots you in the head and steals your car. Luckily you are taken to the hospital. First thing the cops ask you would be.... "What were you doing in that part of town at a stop sign? You really should have run the stop sign in that kind of neighborhood. It's your own fault you were shot in the head and carjacked." Yes, thats absurd, but that kind of "blame the victim" is very much what is done in rape cases more often than not.

It's never the victim's fault. But only a fool would drive around in a dangerous neighborhood and then be surprised to be robbed. And only a hypocrite would say people are victim-blaming when that's pointed out.

When someone says "Don't get drunk in public. Be careful who you walk with." they are not saying "if you don't do that, it's your fault to be raped!", they are saying "here are a few ways to avoid being raped".

Far more often than not, those precautions are unnecessary (rapists and murderers are a very small minority compared to non-rapists and non-murderers), but since we can't know who is part of that minority, it's safer to assume it might be one of the people around you and take precautions to avoid falling victim to them.

Claims of rape, as well as of any other crime, must always be investigated without bias, and our legal system says everyone is innocent until proven otherwise.

Sadly, there are many cases of false accusations of rape, which not only are unfair to whoever is being accused, but also weakens the credibility of real victims. I've seen both cases, where a man was falsely accused of raping an unconscious (luckily, the security system caught them on the act) and of a woman being assumed to be lying because the police thought she was trying to get revenge on her ex-boyfriend for dumping her (it took a lot of effort for the investigation really get going).

So yeah, unfortunately, there are instances where victims (not just women, victims in general) are not taken seriously. That's disgraceful, but it doesn't mean we are not teaching people not to rape.


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Tifa Lockheart (FF7). Tough as nails, independent, and she ends up rescuing her love and the main character, helping him to overcome mental illness and paralysis that he cannot on his own. In addition to being integral to the entire plot, she's intelligent, strong willed, and courageous.
Oh, well I didn't know you were going to go to other games to get your examples, but yeah Squaresoft is pretty awesome... although, I will say that (and it's why I quoted Tifa) a woman I am no longer friends with hated Tifa, mainly cause as tough as she was, she was also in your face DD's compared to every other female character in FF7 being much smaller chested. I mean, I like Tifa don't get me wrong, but I did kinda see her point.

Disliking the character just because she is buxom is as shallow as liking her just because of it.

Dante from Devil May Cry franchise could very well be classified as an "anime pretty boy", but I don't let that make me dislike him. In fact, he's one of my favorite characters (well, except for the Dante from the last game. That guy is a dick).


Lemmy wrote:

Disliking the character just because she is buxom is as shallow as liking her just because of it.

Dante from Devil May Cry franchise could very well be classified as an "anime pretty boy", but I don't let that make me dislike him. In fact, he's one of my favorite characters (well, except for the Dante from the last game. That guy is a dick).

Oh, I agree. I didn't mean to imply I didn't think she was being silly (her later insistence that every single one of my 29 City of Heroes characters were big breasted skimpy-dressed women when only 2 actually were was the last straw with her for me), just that I did see her point that Tifa was the only big-breasted woman in the entire FF7 world. I am able to see someone's point and think they are partially right, without agreeing with them completely. That's why I'm able to not completely hate the person I will no longer say the name of just so as not to start a new debate on her.

Okay, so I'm gonna go watch Army Wives... Hopefully in the morning I'll have forgotten about this thread and can leave it for good.


Ashiel wrote:
Aeris Gainsburough (FF7). If you've played FFVII for about 30 minutes you might think Aeris is a "damsel", since there are evil government guys after her and the main character is supposedly supposed to "protect her". If you've played for more than 30 minutes, however, you'll find that she actually ends up doing more of the escorting than the main character during her period of "needing rescuing". She's basically Jesus. Even when your team defeats the BBEG, she's the one that saves the world.

She also made me cry when I was a kid...

Does anyone really not know the events of this game?:
G$$~!~n it, Sephiroth, you f~*$ing a@#@@##! I was 10 years old! I wasn't prepared to lose a main character!

Also she was one of my strongest characters... So much wasted XP :(


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:


Tifa Lockheart (FF7). Tough as nails, independent, and she ends up rescuing her love and the main character, helping him to overcome mental illness and paralysis that he cannot on his own. In addition to being integral to the entire plot, she's intelligent, strong willed, and courageous.

Oh, well I didn't know you were going to go to other games to get your examples, but yeah Squaresoft is pretty awesome... although, I will say that (and it's why I quoted Tifa) a woman I am no longer friends with hated Tifa, mainly cause as tough as she was, she was also in your face DD's compared to every other female character in FF7 being much smaller chested. I mean, I like Tifa don't get me wrong, but I did kinda see her point.

I'm going to share a secret with you. People have different bust sizes. Strange, I know. Another, even greater secret, is that there's nothing wrong with big breasts, or the women that have them. Tifa also had brown hair, and auburn eyes. It was scandalous.

It amuses me how a woman can hate another woman, or the depiction of another woman because of her bust size. Perhaps it's jealous insecurity, or the hatred of sexuality? I dunno. All I know is, if that woman hated Tifa because of her cup size instead of who she was as a person, then her opinion doesn't matter to me anyway.

There's nothing wrong with being sexy. Cloud and Barret are sexy. Why is it only women who have a problem with other women being sexy? I don't have anything against Cloud for being sexy. Or Barret. Or Rufus. Or Sephiroth.

Quote:
As for Parasite Eve, OMG I love Parasite Eve! I even have the DVD of the movie (yes, the movie, if you haven't seen it you should. It's based more directly on the book (the games are sequels to the book), and it's therefore the story of what happened in Tokyo right before Aya and her sister had their accident and needed organ transplants...)

I haven't seen the movie, but I go back and replay PE I from time to time. I've been meaning to play through PE II, but I just can't get into the gameplay portion nearly as much. I prefered PE to be PE, not Resident Evil the RPG.


Lemmy wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Aeris Gainsburough (FF7). If you've played FFVII for about 30 minutes you might think Aeris is a "damsel", since there are evil government guys after her and the main character is supposedly supposed to "protect her". If you've played for more than 30 minutes, however, you'll find that she actually ends up doing more of the escorting than the main character during her period of "needing rescuing". She's basically Jesus. Even when your team defeats the BBEG, she's the one that saves the world.

She also made me cry when I was a kid...

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah. I had nightmares for a while after that. Not nightmares of fear, but separation anxiety / loss nightmares.

And yes, she was incredibly strong. If you know how to build up limit breaks, you can easily have your 3rd tier limit breaks before you reach the Gold Saucer, without even doing a lot of grinding. The easiest place for me, IMHO, for building limits and making some fair cash early on is in the mithril mines just after you get across the Zolom swamp with your chocobo as I've pointed out here and here.


What really stinks in FF7 is Cid's treatment of his female assistant. I mean, ewww. And no, you can even get the level 4 limit break for Aeris (of course) without an insane amount of work.

(Sorry about triple posting)


Well... I don't think I'll be playing FF7 again anytime soon... Or any game in the FF franchise, to be honest... I think its combat mechanics aged poorly and I lack the time and patience to play a game with 120 hours.

My quick review of FF franchise:
BTW, FF6 is the best of all! FF7 is great (but overrated). FF8 sucks! FF9 is great (but underrated), FFX is okay. FFX-2 is pretty bad. FF12 had the most fun combat mechanics but was "meh".

FF5 and earlier were decent games, but aged poorly. Didn't play or feel like playing anything after 12. Very few JRPGs attract me nowadays.

Sissyl wrote:
What really stinks in FF7 is Cid's treatment of his female assistant. I mean, ewww.

Yeah, he was kinda of an a*$##@%. Although it wasn't because she was female, IIRC. (Admittedly, I don't even remember what happens to her).


Lemmy wrote:
FF8 sucks!

I have nothing to say to you anymore. *hmph*


Sissyl wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
FF8 sucks!
I have nothing to say to you anymore. *hmph*

C'mon! Squall was such an emo that he made Cloud look like a ray of sunshine! Laguna was by far the best character in the game! ^^

But what makes me dislike the game is its game mechanics... Grinding magic to create gear... Then have your gear weakened when you use magic, only to have to grind it back again... Urgh...

Amazing graphics for its time, though. (and I still freaking love the Death Express summon!)


I should add that it is going far too far to say that having sex with someone who is drunk is rape. There are obvious cases where it is, such as if they're unconscious or just way, way too drunk, and there are situations where it's pretty guaranteed to be okay, such as two people drinking together in preparation for sex, but there is also a gray area in between. Healthy policy to avoid rape, miscommunication leading to a legal situation, and so on, is naturally to avoid sex with alcohol. However, I would say that most people's experience in the area is that alcohol is more common than not when it comes to sex, at least in the going out and partying situation. What you need to ask yourself is to what degree alcohol invalidates someone's given consent.


Lemmy wrote:

C'mon! Squall was such an emo that he made Cloud look like a ray of sunshine! Laguna was by far the best character in the game! ^^

But what makes me dislike the game is its game mechanics... Grinding magic to create gear... Then have your gear weakened when you use magic, only to have to grind it back again... Urgh...

Amazing graphics for its time, though. (and I still freaking love the Death Express summon!)

The point of FFVIII is the storyline and the mysteries involved. The stuff people are still discussing some 15 years later. Squall is too emo, yes. Selphie is too perky. But what people usually don't realize is that the grinding can more or less wholesale be replaced by card refinement, which is a far quicker process.


Sissyl wrote:
The point of FFVIII is the storyline and the mysteries involved. The stuff people are still discussing some 15 years later. Squall is too emo, yes. Selphie is too perky.

I don't think the storyline and its mysteries are all that interesting, but that's just me.

Sissyl wrote:
But what people usually don't realize is that the grinding can more or less wholesale be replaced by card refinement, which is a far quicker process.

Kinda... But not really, and not completely... I grew more and more tired of grinding and, at least for me, the characters weren't interesting enough to make up for it. (And that card game was boring -.-')

I did finish FF8, but it's still one of my least favorite games in the franchise... Right next to X-2, which was rather dull and extremely uninspired.


Zeugma wrote:
But once you read the truly brilliant, such as by Albert Camus,

[Curses in French]


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Zeugma wrote:
Necromancer wrote:

To help get us back on track:

Kafkatrapping

This is why I'm concerned for game culture, because this is common in other media industries and growing in society at large. Please read.

2 points:

1. Claims of "concern for [fill in the blank] culture" make me think of the claims made against heavy metal in the '80s, and all the moral panics preceding it, including D&D. It just reads as ironic.

And including claims of nonexistent sexism in video games, film, etc. The biggest criticisms of video games that I've seen in the last few years is that they are subject to the free market. This is not a bad thing (as much as I like to complain about limited options in AAA titles), because it's a form of honesty at the end of the day.

Zeugma wrote:
2. The invocation of Kafka left me very disappointed in the article as written. I was hoping for Kafka criticism. This is not it. I've read The Trial and I've read a lot of Kafka criticism. This was a shallow use of a story with many more dimensions to it that those he pointed out. An alternate reading (arrived at by several authors in the Ronald Gray anthology Franz Kafa: A Collection of Critical Essays): Kafka's K was guilty. There is no escape from guilt. The fact it can be invoked to make us do/think/feel things is not some flaw but the sum of its function, which Kafka was brilliant at describing. Does it make you feel bad? Then it is doing its job. Some external referent isn't necessary. The author seems to think this is bad for society. He is wrong. Kafka would tell him it is society, and, more than that, it is K.

Having guilt (which can be natural or manufactured) is not the same as being guilty of a crime. The point of the Der Prozess was that there was no escape from guilt in that society, whether deserving or not.


Zeugma wrote:
2. Please don't stop with just reading Kafka! You do yourself a disservice if you fail to read the Kafka criticism of the last 50 years! A lot of what has been written is contradictory, but each critic has added to my understanding, and what with Kafka's last papers finally being prepared for the public after protracted custody disputes, now is a good time to revisit it.

It's interesting to watch how criticism changes over the years. My prefered method is to find the earliest analysis available and then read them (the interesting ones) chronologically.

Zeugma wrote:
3. Kafkatrapper is not actually more accurate (see my previous post above). BUT if you want to argue it is, and do a different reading of "The Trial" than I have, be my guest. But once you read the truly brilliant criticism, such as by Albert Camus, people who throw around such a facile term as "Kafkaesque" will make you resentful when you read its overbroad and generalized misapplication. At least, it makes me resentful.

I've found that Kafka- (as a prefix) lends itself more often toward aesthetic qualities rather than story elements (i.e. "Kafkaesque" being used to describe anything that looks like Prague's low income areas during the early 1900s). I've actually heard someone describe Dishonored as Kafkaesque. Like those applications, Kafkatrapping may not be one hundred percent accurate, but it's closer than existing terms. In all honesty, I dislike lumping people I disagree with into piles as that usually just adds fuel to the fire and nothing gets solved.

That said, the important part of the linked post wasn't Der Prozess or even Kafka (except to expand my growing backlog of to-dos), but the methods used by that society to silence and eliminate perceived threats. I see that same approach being used daily to control conversations rather than to arrive at an actual solution.

The Exchange

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Jean-Paul Sartre, Intrnet Troll wrote:
Zeugma wrote:
But once you read the truly brilliant, such as by Albert Camus,
[Curses in French]

Wouldn't your girlfriend Simone de Beauvior care to troll this thread, instead of you?

The Exchange

Necromancer wrote:
Zeugma wrote:
2. Please don't stop with just reading Kafka! You do yourself a disservice if you fail to read the Kafka criticism of the last 50 years! A lot of what has been written is contradictory, but each critic has added to my understanding, and what with Kafka's last papers finally being prepared for the public after protracted custody disputes, now is a good time to revisit it.
It's interesting to watch how criticism changes over the years. My prefered method is to find the earliest analysis available and then read them (the interesting ones) chronologically.

The only difficulty with that approach is that if you start with Brod and (in English) Edwin Muir, you are getting in the former a very specific agenda, and in the latter a very incomplete view since, at that point, most of Kafka's oeuvre hadn't been posthumously published yet. Not that you can't do it, just that some of the conclusions that are drawn are off the mark if Kafka's works are taken as a whole.


Zeugma wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Zeugma wrote:
2. Please don't stop with just reading Kafka! You do yourself a disservice if you fail to read the Kafka criticism of the last 50 years! A lot of what has been written is contradictory, but each critic has added to my understanding, and what with Kafka's last papers finally being prepared for the public after protracted custody disputes, now is a good time to revisit it.
It's interesting to watch how criticism changes over the years. My prefered method is to find the earliest analysis available and then read them (the interesting ones) chronologically.
The only difficulty with that approach is that if you start with Brod and (in English) Edwin Muir, you are getting in the former a very specific agenda, and in the latter a very incomplete view since, at that point, most of Kafka's oeuvre hadn't been posthumously published yet. Not that you can't do it, just that some of the conclusions that are drawn are off the mark if Kafka's works are taken as a whole.

raises an eyebrow

I only read an analysis if I've also read what it's analyzing. If the analysis references things I haven't read, I stop and come back to it when I have.


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Lemmy wrote:
Well... I don't think I'll be playing FF7 again anytime soon... Or any game in the FF franchise, to be honest... I think its combat mechanics aged poorly and I lack the time and patience to play a game with 120 hours.

As far as the combat mechanics go, I've found that it's highly amusing to set the battle speeds of the game to their maximum, and in some cases change the battles to active. In some of games (especially VII with it's very smooth battle system) it makes the ATB system much more exciting. I recently replayed VII and IX (I never finished 9 because my old PS1 was literally played to death and died during my playthrough of it, so I've been playing it using my computer and being reminded of how freaking amazing and detailed old games were) and it's very helpful, though the delay in actions in FF9 is much more noticeable, whereas in FF VII it's very smooth.

Quote:
BTW, FF6 is the best of all! FF7 is great (but overrated). FF8 sucks! FF9 is great (but underrated), FFX is okay. FFX-2 is pretty bad. FF12 had the most fun combat mechanics but was "meh".

I love both FF6 and FF7 for both the story and gameplay. I've been really enjoying FF9 thus far because of the setting and beautiful details, and the gameplay has been pretty awesome too (I really like the interactivity with the world, and even little things like finding a few gil on the ground are oddly satisfying); however, I gravitate more towards FF2, FF5, FF6, and FF9 because of the character customization that those games provide. One of my biggest complaints with FF9 has been the lack of active influence on how you play in your battles. Most of the customization comes in a variety of passive support skills; whereas in FF5 you had job-classes which could be selected or even mixed in some cases; FF6 had the esper system which allowed you to customize your magic loadout and/or growth of your characters, and FF7 had the best system IMHO with its materia-system where you could redefine any character's purpose and capabilities (and the level of depth in the combat was incredible).

I've been trying to replay FF8 as well but it's hard. Not hard as in difficult gameplay, but it's really hard to get into it, mostly for the reasons you cite. I've never gotten particularly far into it for a variety of reasons, but the junction system was less than super thrilling for me, and I wasn't particularly interested in any of the characters. I loved Cloud in FF7, but Squall was just kind of there. Quistis and Zell I really liked though. I should give it another go however.

Quote:
Sissyl wrote:
What really stinks in FF7 is Cid's treatment of his female assistant. I mean, ewww.
Yeah, he was kinda of an a$!$!$#. Although it wasn't because she was female, IIRC. (Admittedly, I don't even remember what happens to her).

Yeah, it was because she kept him from going ahead with the mission, and he cut the launch because she refused to leave the room with a possibly broken oxygen (or maybe it was fuel) tank and told him to go ahead and launch as she didn't care if she died. He aborted the launch because he didn't want her to die.

It's also worth noting that for the most part, Cid was kind of an asshat to everybody. He's got a mouth on him that makes Barret look like a nun, and a will to use it. When you return and actually fly in the rocket, the oxygen tank malfunctions and Cid finds that she was right. IIRC, I think he apologizes if you return but I can't recall.

The long and short of it is A) he wasn't a dick to her because of her being female, B) he was a dick to everyone, C) their relationship was amusing because it looked like they would hate each other but were actually pretty close, D) she was so nonchalant about everything and that contrasted yet complemented his overbearing and excitably loud attitude. The only person who was going to hang out with Cid in their own time was in fact going to be someone with very thick skin (and she was that person).

Their mutual character interaction was a lot deeper than "I man, you woman, fix the g+!*@&n tea, ug". :P


Indeed.


Heh... FF5 was the first I ever played. It's actually one of the games that taught me English (there were very few games translated to Portuguese back in the day. They are more common nowadays, but it's usually limited to subtitles). :P

Growing up in Brazil, I learned most of my English from games, songs, TV shows and movies (You can't advance in Zelda without learning English! And Led Zepellin taught me more than all my English teachers combined!), by the time I was 13 I was already watching movies without subtitles (that's one of the few achievements I'm actually proud of ^^).

FF6 is great because its characters and story are really interesting.

Really... Who hasn't played this yet?:
Loved to see a villain finally succeed in destroying the world!

- - -

This is the thing about the subject of this thread... As far back as '97 there were already multiple examples of cool female characters that were both capable and interesting (Hell!The original Metroid is from 86! It's older than me! Super Metroid is from 94 nad one of my favorite games! I still finish it at least twice a year).

If anything, games are more inclusive to women than most other medias.

Many modern movies include female characters that are capable and skilled, but they often forget to make them interesting. A boring super-strong character is still boring.

Admittedly, this is sometimes caused by the fact that many action movies are targeted at male audiences, so they tend to focus on male characters.


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Sissyl wrote:
Indeed.

Cid was a jerky Tsundere (he acts like he doesn't like her, but he really does; yes Cid, like dwarves, is Tsundere). That's just kind of how it goes. It's too bad when people miss the reality of it because they're wearing tinted goggles, because there's a lot of interesting facets to human interactions.

Another thing that bugs the hell out of me is fact that the arguments in videos like Anita Sarkeesians, is that they are biased, and factually untrue. Why? Because if you apply the criticisms evenly across both genders, then the entirety falls apart. But what she does is ignores all examples of the same when it's a male character, only applies it to female characters, and then acts like there's some grand conspiracy going on when she only talks about instances where female characters are in these situations.

Like the Damsel in Distress bit. This is her definition of a damsel in distress, taken from a transcript of her first video.

Anita Sarkeesian: DID-1 wrote:
As a trope the damsel in distress is a plot device in which a female character is placed in a perilous situation from which she cannot escape on her own and must be rescued by a male character, usually providing a core incentive or motivation for the protagonist’s quest.

Notice that to be qualified, you must be female. Thus if a male was in the same position, it gets a pass, because it's not a woman. Instantly, from the very first definition, shows the logical consistency problem. If you're only going to count one sex, you're going to end up with obviously skewed numbers.

For example, Hal Emmerich from Metal Gear Solid pretty much fits right into the Damsel in Distress definition, except he (theoretically) has a penis.

Continuing on, in her second video...

Anita Sarkeesian: DID-2 wrote:
As a trope the damsel in distress is a plot device in which a female character is placed in a perilous situation from which she cannot escape on her own and then must be rescued by a male character, usually providing an incentive or motivation for the protagonist’s quest.

Again, qualification requires specific gender. Everyone from Hal Emmerich to Cloud Strife to Mario falls into this definition, and several female characters serve as the rescuer, but those characters like Aya Brea and Tifa Lockheart don't get to count as the heroes either because they're not men (and for it to work, according to Anita, it must be man rescuing woman or it doesn't get counted).

It's sexist against both genders. It doesn't give credit where it is due and it's biased based entirely on gender. If you're a woman, by her position, you don't qualify to be a counterweight because you're a woman, and if you're a man in distress, you don't qualify because you're a man. Likewise she doesn't even discuss the man saving man or woman saving woman things that crop up as well.

It's just a steaming pile.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Okay guys, this thread has pretty much spiraled again since my last post. Locking this one up now. Again, if you want to discuss some of the branched off topics touched upon in the last few pages, I think it really is better off in a different forum/individual threads. Thanks!

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