How do you balance CE character roleplay with a being a team Player?


Advice


So, my character in Skull and Shackles died, and my replacement was an Antipaladin.

As far as I know, the rest of the party (barring one possible CG who wasn't there this newest session when I introduced my new character) is neutral on the G/E axis.

He's an an AP of Besmara, since she accepts CE worshipers and it really fits the setting nice; that was even his excuse to join the party's attempt to ...

Skull and Shackles Spoiler:
...rescue Sandra Quinn, the NPC cleric of Besmara from the Grindylow caves, changing an otherwise "selfless" act to an act of devotion to his deity. Incidentally, when 2/4 party members fell rescuing her, he just said "well screw this" and ran off with the other remaining character, leaving the others including Sandra to die.

The thing I'm having a hard time figuring out is how to be chaotic evil, heck, how to follow the antipaladin's code, without me (the player) being a selfish dick and having my party kill me (the character). OOC I absolutely loathe PVP; it just ruins the experience of the game, and causes more problems than it fixes. And I can see how to make LE or even NE play nice with people in relation to whatever their ultimate goal is...but for an AP the ultimate goal seems to be to not play nice.

I could say I'm just biding my time to usurp and kill the new captain (the player who was not here this last session) and take over for myself, but, honestly not only does this just prolong inevitable conflict, but it also seems impossible. I do not doubt if I murdered the captain that the others would turn against me, and I just couldn't handle the rest of the party on my own. Nor would I want to. It just wouldn't be the fun cooperative game I like.

So far the party seems to get along with me because...well...because I take my evil desires out on the enemy. But is it really still evil if I limit my actions to the enemy?

Maybe I shouldn't have chosen AP to be a "team player"

But man, do I not want to change classes. Here's why:

1. I absolutely love the flavor of the AP.
2. I get to roleplay my inner sociopath. In this last session I got to...

More S&S Spoilers:
Torture captured Grindylows, kill one in front of the others to make my point, and then press-gang the survivors into our crew before returning to the cave and killing their queen
...the party did not mind my heavy intimidate score and the like for that sort of useful stuff.
3. I am in love with the fear aura. I plan on getting Corungun Smash ASAP and the Dazzling feats as well. Even the rest of the party is learning to work with my aura and prepare spells accordingly. Because of said fear aura, nothing is really as scary as an AP. Oh, an Inquisitor may have a higher score, but she can't scare a construct or an undead or any other "immune" creature like I can.

So, how do I play CE without alienating everyone around me? Any examples in literature or media I can use as a guide?

I mean, if I play otherwise nice with my friends but, I don't know, torture a random NPC and feed them to the sharks every couple times I make port, is that enough? The code seems to say that I can be neutral most of the time, as long as any good I do ultimately serves my own selfish purposes, and I ultimately remain evil in nature. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, though.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

technically CE really does suck when it comes to being in a party that's not evil...even more so if you play an Antipaladin. It's actually just very bad, mostly why they are used as npc by DM for quick easy villains. As CE most of the time are basically Joker and Carnage, most of the serial killers in movies, Kratos in god of war series etc...

There isn't really a good way to play it. If you are too nice, you will lose your powers but of course, it would depend how clement your DM is but usually...yeah it sucks.


I don't know if it would work for your concept/campaign but I played a chaotic evil half-orc who simply didn't want to go to jail. He had learned early on you could do pretty much want ever you wanted to creatures that were considered bad or evil. So he joined up with some local adventures and tormented/killed anything that got in their way.


I don't think CE means you can't be a team player. It just means you look out for you first, but you can still play smart. A succubus and glabrezu are both CE as an example, but they keep enough control about themselves to not let people know they are manipulating them, and that takes self control.

What you can do is have the occasional violent outburst, but you may have to metagame to only do it when it won't cause major problems. You should not kill someone in broad daylight, but if a captured NPC is not cooperating, and you want to kill him then go for it. I would also talk to the party OOC about this also, just to be sure they are ok with it before the game starts.


Funimation Presents: Hellsing Ultimate

Learn from the master. You help because you're BORED and you think it'll be interesting.


Love what you do, killing is fun to you, torture is fun, you spare your allies only because they are 'yours' (i.e. ownership whether they know it or not.) Most 'good' characters kill because it 'has to be done' for 'x' reason. You though the reason out the window, it's in your way and that's the only reason you need.

You could also take a page from Richard from LFG.

Warhammer and 40K have some novels from the Chao faction's POV, I'd look at some of those too.


For inspiration, look to Richard from LFG and Belkar from OotS. You like hurting things, and that's what they keep you around for.

As a side note, anything evil you kill is either nonchaotic (a chaotic act) or CE which means more soldiers for the abyss when those souls get there (a fairly evil act I'd say).


Have you considered just being a dick to NPCs? I.E. If your character is ever, ever, *ever* left alone with someone they don't consider a "useful/funny/dangerous ally/friend/tool", they exact unspeakable (at the game table) horrors on that person?

Play the antipaladin as someone with very depraved hobbies that they perform for pleasure.

Find a prostitute on the by the local temple while helping out a dwarven smith? Find her later that night and flay her in front of a temple of Calistria and use her entrails to write "Besmara does it better in the sack!"

Chaotic characters prey upon and seek to destroy life, and also the orderliness that life can depend upon. Being a part of an adventuring group pretty much assumes that they will be disturbing the peace in some fashion. They are ultimately self-serving or destructively nihilistic.

Perhaps the greatest motivation for your character would be to convince others of your worldview. If most of your characters in your party are neutral, they could see it as a chance to evangelize.


Play CE with maturity.

Playing the rampaging murderer who kills and steals from the friendly NPCs and the party is going to be a short and unenjoyable game.

Creating the character's backstory so that the party's aims suit the character's aims is a good start. E.g. the good party aims to being down a rival to your God's cult. Rather than wasting your own resources and henchmen to do the job, you are manipulating the forces of good to do your bidding. You become a valuable member of the party as you seem to have access to information, resources etc that the rest of the party can't get. This information comes from your other allies that the party is unaware of.

In combat etc, you absolutely look out for number 1, but with intelligence realising that if you don't save the Cleric today, tomorrow he won't be able to heal you when you got unlucky.

In short find a way to make your actions party friendly but justifiable to your motivations, falling back on the means justify the ends if necessary.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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You as a player know you can't win against the whole party, so why doesn't your character know the same?

You got a good deal here. These saps count you as an ally, and watch your back when things get rough. You get to pillage, loot, and murder to your hearts content. Why spoil it by turning on them? Especially since doing that will likely get you killed.

Play along. You're not biding your time, you're exploiting a resource.


I think it might be best to not over think it. I think the stereotypical pirate is chaotic evil. They don't give a damn about the law and take what they want. They can have a code that makes them look loyal to their crew out of self interest. A hero of Besmara doesn't have to be a raving lunatic or an obvious monster. They might just be a mercenary pirate captain with some Greyjoy-esque sacrifices to the sea.


chbgraphicarts wrote:

Funimation Presents: Hellsing Ultimate

Learn from the master. You help because you're BORED and you think it'll be interesting.

I think this is the right angle.

1) you're C/E..the REST of your group is NOT.

This is an Upside for a CE character… I mean who doesn't want traveling companions with some sense of morals… sure you see it as a weakness, but when YOU need something…. "hey mate!"

2) these companions are not just expendable batteries, they are tools to be used for your goals. Smart people don't throw away or abuse their tools.

3) alignment doesn't define your actions, it defines your MOTIVATION. Not what you do, but WHY you do it.


Vazt wrote:
I think it might be best to not over think it. I think the stereotypical pirate is chaotic evil. They don't give a damn about the law and take what they want. They can have a code that makes them look loyal to their crew out of self interest. A hero of Besmara doesn't have to be a raving lunatic or an obvious monster. They might just be a mercenary pirate captain with some Greyjoy-esque sacrifices to the sea.

I like this too.

Otherwise normal with some 'disturbing qualities'

I like the oracle of nature for this.

Life sucking revelation eerily reminiscent of negative energy channel? check.
play scrambled eggs with humanoid or animal guts to tell the future (for your sole personal gain?) check.

you don't have to have the oracle revelations to dabble around in a sentient creatures guts and ice out the rest of the party by saying "the fates say we would prosper most by going east"

Do some other odd things like collecting finger bones, or carving your mark in enemies bodies.

PCs can choose to oppose you on things like this without boiling it down to drawing swords, because truthfully, NONE of it is necessary to 'be an anti paladin' so you can back down on any of it, and just pull your hijnks when they aren't looking.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So you've decided to be LeChuck instead of Guybrush, Skull & Shackles is the best campaign for it. Here's reasons why you stick with the other players:

1) You like hurting people and taking their stuff, and being an officer on a Pirate ship lets you do that. If you can't be captain then take a page from Scourge and Plugg's book and be the meanest 1st mate or Boatswain you can be.

2) Keep your flanks defended, at some point you are going to piss someone off. They will probably be justified in their anger. So when they come at you, it helps to have a loyal crew of scallywags to keep you safe from the mewling quims that can't take a joke, or a maiming or robbery or whatever.

3) Reputation: You might be the meanest sonofagun to sail the Shackles, but the better reputation of your allies gives you a good smokescreen to commit your random acts of depravity. Like drowning the odd landlubber, or spreading a disease in the nearest Chelish garrison.

Be good to your friends, defend them from danger and only betray them only to survive and only if you are absolutely 100% sure that nobody is going to take their revenge upon you.

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