I just read the post about "The Primal," and it reminded me of a project I've done along a similar vein.
This is clearly a WIP, but I just wanted to know what y'all think of it.
The concept behind the class is something akin to an arcane experiment that causes an abomination of features to arise.
Inspired by someone saying "I want to play a summoner-less eidolon," and using some design space I have yet to see used, I present to you:
Feel free to critique as needed :)
Yeah, the primal is an old project and when I updated it recently, several posters pointed out some flaws we hadn't noticed previously.
I definitely like the idea. I'm not sure about blending both race point pools and evolution pools. This could cause a ton of confusion and I suspect you'll see a lot of "builds" with incorrect point values as a result - not due to cheating, but managing multiple pools can be confusing for some folks. It might be better to simply list the race options and evolutions you'd like to see them select from in the class entry and use one pool to draw from. While I recognize that's a lot of copy/paste, it will keep them from selecting things you've intentionally NOT included and prevent them from assuming just because Paizo adds a new trait doesn't mean it is necessarily available.
I also have concerns about HD, BAB, and Saves. In terms of survival, these guys are going to be rather limited. Low hit dice, low attack, but high saves will make them "squishy" and have significant difficulties in actually hitting an opponent or surviving later on. I'm assuming they're a melee specialist?
I'm glad you didn't cry "foul" when I said that I saw your class, then listed something with a similar concept lol But, thanks for being the first person to drop by, Da'ath!
I was thinking the same thing with the pools. I will take that into consideration with the ongoing project. Hmm...
They weren't designed to be melee specialists, necessarily. They were built to be able to do what they wanted to do. Just like an eidolon (though, as everyone knows, those things are MONSTERS [pun unintended]).
After all, you can use your RP to purchase stat boosts. Or gain immunities. Or natural armor. Or... etc.
I did the low HD/BAB with monk saves because I thought "These dudes need some sort of survivability at this juncture." This was also done before ACG, of course. So, I had no idea what the process looked like exactly that Paizo goes through for class design.
/ramble
Anyway, I'll keep updating the document with suggestions, etc. And, like I said, I'll puzzle out something to do with the pools. Thanks for that idea!
This looks definetly interesting, and really reminds me of my own Biomancer class which had the exact same design goal in a sence lol, more of "I wanna be a shapeshifter" that became Eidolon minus summoner.
I really like the bloodline stuff and the whole racial changing deal personally, and what exactly do you mean by "what they wanted to do"? cause eidolons tend to be darn good melees XD
Not meaning to shill or anything, but I think if you like this sort of class the biomancer might have some ideas, I defiently think yours has some I wish I'd thought of incorporating myself. Take a look if you like
Ya know, with the three of us doing this kind of thing, you'd think that Paizo would have published an official class like this already lol (crossing fingers for Occult Adventures)
I totally dig the Biomancer actually having class features. That Adaptive Gift feature is pretty slick. And gaining SLA Adaptation spells is wicked awesome.
I can see it as less of a summoner-less eidolon, sure. The Biomancer's larger access to evolutions makes me think of that path, though. But, yeah. "Darn good meleers," sure. But I didn't want these guys to be combat-gods, either. Maybe I'll bump them to d8/mid-BAB. Drop down their... uh... Will save? Yeah. That sounds pretty good.
Here's a related feat that I think would be neat. Gives everyone the ability to fake being one of these guys, and I can guarantee it's balanced:
Inner Potential - Your blood seethes with hidden power.
Prerequisites: n/a
Benefit: You gain four points worth of racial traits. You must meet all prerequisites for those traits.
Special: If you have at least 8 HD when you gain this feat, you may select advanced or normal traits. If you have at least 15 HD when you gain this feat, you may select monstrous, advanced, or normal traits.
Ya know, with the three of us doing this kind of thing, you'd think that Paizo would have published an official class like this already lol (crossing fingers for Occult Adventures)
I totally dig the Biomancer actually having class features. That Adaptive Gift feature is pretty slick. And gaining SLA Adaptation spells is wicked awesome.
I can see it as less of a summoner-less eidolon, sure. The Biomancer's larger access to evolutions makes me think of that path, though. But, yeah. "Darn good meleers," sure. But I didn't want these guys to be combat-gods, either. Maybe I'll bump them to d8/mid-BAB. Drop down their... uh... Will save? Yeah. That sounds pretty good.
Here's a related feat that I think would be neat. Gives everyone the ability to fake being one of these guys, and I can guarantee it's balanced:
Inner Potential - Your blood seethes with hidden power.
Prerequisites: n/a
Benefit: You gain four points worth of racial traits. You must meet all prerequisites for those traits.
Special: If you have at least 8 HD when you gain this feat, you may select advanced or normal traits. If you have at least 15 HD when you gain this feat, you may select monstrous, advanced, or normal traits.
I'm glad you like it :D, and I think giving them a medium BAB would really help cause the class seems..I don't know like it's good at what it could be made to do but at the same time you don't actually get that much till level 4 depending on the racial trait stuff, I THINK I know what your talking about with them at least lol.
Come to think of it would you actually mind if I borrowed the bloodline idea a bit? I think it might make a pretty cool magicy centric prestige for my biomancer lol
All of this is done with OGL material, so go nuts lol
All of this is done with OGL material, so go nuts lol
Well I still would want to give credit for the idea so I wanted to ask :)
For your own, I'm a little confused about the bloodlines spells. I may have just missed the line about them but how many spell slots do you have to cast them? or would you cast them as Spell-likes?
I'm glad you didn't cry "foul" when I said that I saw your class, then listed something with a similar concept lol But, thanks for being the first person to drop by, Da'ath!
No foul to call, man. =)
Have a pretty annoying, but minor neck injury at the moment, so I can't sit at the computer for very long; should heal up in the next 7 days and I'll try to comment constructively, then.
Seems very interesting. It is, tough, lacking an iconic attack form. I suggest giving medium bab, d8 HD, and alchemist "spell" progression. If you want to keep it spellcasting free, instead give it the str/dex, Natural armor, and mutltiattack progression of the eidolon. Also, some natural attack from level 1.
It is, tough, lacking an iconic attack form. I suggest giving medium bab, d8 HD, and alchemist "spell" progression. If you want to keep it spellcasting free, instead give it the str/dex, Natural armor, and mutltiattack progression of the eidolon. Also, some natural attack from level 1.
For your own, I'm a little confused about the bloodlines spells. I may have just missed the line about them but how many spell slots do you have to cast them? or would you cast them as Spell-likes?
@Naoiki00: They don't gain bloodlines- only the Eldritch Heritage feat chain. No spells granted that route.
I was aiming for a lack of actual spellcasting, as some racial traits and evolutions could allow access to those as SLAs. However... I might cave in and give them something here. Extracts would make a tremendous amount of sense. Of course, that opens this up to be an alchemist/summoner hybrid...
Some sort of iconic attack does seem to be the thing that would do well. I'm just not quite sure what to give them :/ Maybe put Sudden Evolution at 1st level. Then change the progression slightly so they gain it up to 10 at level 20... That way, they can have bites/claws/elemental attacks/etc. at the get-go!
I will certainly raise their BAB and HD, though. That seems like the right thing to me. And everyone else lol
I'll keep an eye on this one. I can't really critique it, because I don't have familiarity with the Summoner. I instabanned that class permanently from any game because I don't like any summoning that doesn't involve evil cults. I always liked the idea of the evolution mechanic, though, and have been toying with the idea of a class where the player was the eidolon. Can't see anything unbalanced, but as I said I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of evolutions. If this turns out well I'll probably greenlight it for players.
I always liked the idea of the evolution mechanic, though, and have been toying with the idea of a class where the player was the eidolon. Can't see anything unbalanced, but as I said I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of evolutions. If this turns out well I'll probably greenlight it for players.
Why, thanks for the kind words! If you do use it in actual play, tell me how it turns out :3
Also, here's the info for evolutions.
EDIT: Added in a slowed extract progression starting at first level. Thoughts?
I don't like any summoning that doesn't involve evil cults.
That's how we felt about the oracle. Renamed it Scion and removed the curse. The curse is now selectable in the form of the "cultist" archetype, which revolves around evil and elder things.
Re: James- I'm still looking over the evolutions, but I'll try to comment more this afternoon.
Sorry to do some necromancy, but I added in a signature attack, per suggestion. Did some other minor tweaks (this is now a hybrid alchemist sorcerer).
Less than a week really doesn't qualify as necromancy ;)
If you haven't already, I'd recommend looking at the Masquerade Reveler barbarian archetype - it's got the same basic theme of "add evolutions to a warrior type", so you might be able to nab some ideas off it.
Otherwise, looks pretty cool for an Alchemist/Summoner hybrid. Not seeing a lot of Sorcerer in there, though, other than the Eldritch Heritage.
If you haven't already, I'd recommend looking at the Masquerade Reveler barbarian archetype - it's got the same basic theme of "add evolutions to a warrior type", so you might be able to nab some ideas off it.Otherwise, looks pretty cool for an Alchemist/Summoner hybrid. Not seeing a lot of Sorcerer in there, though, other than the Eldritch Heritage.
I shall take a look at that archetype ASAP! Thanks for the heads up.
Yeah. I think I meant to write summoner, but my brain doesn't do good while I'm at work and doing these things lol