Does this 26 punches pummeling style work?


Rules Questions

1 to 50 of 189 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

I'll be brief.

Brawler 2 / Primal Hunter 18, kill pet and take 11 limb sets (22 evolution points)

BAB of 15 equals 3 attacks + 23 offhand attacks from limbs = 26 rolls for pummeling strike?

Special: under multiweapon fighting it say that it replaces two-weapon fighting so would it auto replace the brawlers two-weapon fighting?

P.S. I know this is silly but I like pondering builds like this so is my sudo-build sound or not?


You'd have to buy a slam natural attack for each limb, I think. Extra limbs don't give you extra unarmed strikes, as it says in the evolution description.

Plus there's got to be a limit to the number of limbs you can buy - you're not getting any bigger, where are you keeping 23 pairs of arms?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That's no arm O_O!

If I recall, SteelDraco is correct in that you need to purchase the slams, and just having extra limbs doesn't give you extra unarmed strikes.

Dark Archive

There would be no automatic replacement. You would need to retrain it.


Indeed, unarmed strike only scales with iteratives, its not technically a natural attack so you don't get one per limb. Furthermore, I believe it states outright you're still limited by the number of natural attacks an eidolon could have which maxes at like 7.

Edit: Then yeah, this won't work at all. Your number of unarmed strikes is the same regardless of whether you have 100 arms or 2. It's based on iteratives, not limbs.


Actually all I want is the arms not slams, I literally want to unarmed strike something to death. Basically think two-weapon fighting with your fists but well times 11.


SteelDraco wrote:
You'd have to buy a slam natural attack for each limb, I think. Extra limbs don't give you extra unarmed strikes, as it says in the evolution description.

I think you may be wrong here. The arms aren't giving you extra attacks; the feat Multiweapon Fighting is the thing doing so. It lets you have an off hand attack (as per two weapon fighting but with more negatives) with each hand besides the one you designate as main.

If you purchased slams (limited by the number of nat attacks an eidolon can have even for the hunter archetype iirc) you would be using natural attacks, not unarmed strikes, and the whole use of Multiweapon Fighting would be a moot point as it is for manufactured weapons/unarmed strikes.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Indeed, unarmed strike only scales with iteratives, its not technically a natural attack so you don't get one per limb. Furthermore, I believe it states outright you're still limited by the number of natural attacks an eidolon could have which maxes at like 7.

Unarmed strike is a weapon and for it to work it has to be a weapon not a natural.


chaoseffect wrote:
SteelDraco wrote:
You'd have to buy a slam natural attack for each limb, I think. Extra limbs don't give you extra unarmed strikes, as it says in the evolution description.

I think you may be wrong here. The arms aren't giving you extra attacks; the feat Multiweapon Fighting is the thing doing so. It lets you have an off hand attack (as per two weapon fighting but with more negatives) with each hand besides the one you designate as main.

If you purchased slams (limited by the number of nat attacks an eidolon can have even for the hunter archetype iirc) you would be using natural attacks, not unarmed strikes, and the whole use of Multiweapon Fighting would be a moot point as it is for manufactured weapons/unarmed strikes.

Multi weapon fighting doesn't grant extra attacks, it reduces penalties.

mutliweapon fighting wrote:

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Nowhere does that grant extra attacks. The same is true of multi-attack.


I'm not seeing anything here that stops the proposed idea from working; the only iffy thing to me is whether or not you would automatically trade out two weapon fighting for multiweapon fighting; it seems to imply that but it seems unclear to me. That said you could conceivably just take the feat yourself if necessary; a 2 level dip in alchemist for Vestigial Arm would qualify you for example.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Edit: Then yeah, this won't work at all. Your number of unarmed strikes is the same regardless of whether you have 100 arms or 2. It's based on iteratives, not limbs.

Where is this stated? So your saying I can't two-weapon fight with my fists, only talking about 2 fists?


chaoseffect wrote:
I'm not seeing anything here that stops the proposed idea from working; the only iffy thing to me is whether or not you would automatically trade out two weapon fighting for multiweapon fighting; it seems to imply that but it seems unclear to me. That said you could conceivably just take the feat yourself if necessary; a 2 level dip in alchemist for Vestigial Arm would qualify you for example.

I was thinking that too, probably don't even need the dip since you have the ability to "call" extra limbs so you should qualify even if it's only when you use the ability.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
SteelDraco wrote:
You'd have to buy a slam natural attack for each limb, I think. Extra limbs don't give you extra unarmed strikes, as it says in the evolution description.

I think you may be wrong here. The arms aren't giving you extra attacks; the feat Multiweapon Fighting is the thing doing so. It lets you have an off hand attack (as per two weapon fighting but with more negatives) with each hand besides the one you designate as main.

If you purchased slams (limited by the number of nat attacks an eidolon can have even for the hunter archetype iirc) you would be using natural attacks, not unarmed strikes, and the whole use of Multiweapon Fighting would be a moot point as it is for manufactured weapons/unarmed strikes.

Multi weapon fighting doesn't grant extra attacks, it reduces penalties.

mutliweapon fighting wrote:

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Nowhere does that grant extra attacks. The same is true of multi-attack.

Having the arms (or hands) to have extra off hands is what gives you potential extra attacks, though at extreme negatives. The feat two weapon fighting/multiweapon fighting just reduce the negatives. Improved unarmed strike lets you make those off-hand attacks literally with hands. The feats aren't even necessary to give you the attacks, they just make them less useless.

Thomas Long 175 wrote:


Edit: Then yeah, this won't work at all. Your number of unarmed strikes is the same regardless of whether you have 100 arms or 2. It's based on iteratives, not limbs.

Under this interpretation Two Weapon Fighting and Multiweapon Fighting (whether with the feat or not) are impossible and not supported by the rules, yet they are.


SteelDraco wrote:
Plus there's got to be a limit to the number of limbs you can buy - you're not getting any bigger, where are you keeping 23 pairs of arms?

As far as I can tell there's no limit on limbs, as for where to keep them I haven't a clue. You'd be nearly all arms at that point, quite funny looking. I didn't fully flesh out the idea only had the basics. It's probably better to sack 10 evos on huge than to go max limbs but like I said just a concept no math or number crunching. It's also in my realm of "yep that's something to ponder in awe but not play".

Edit: Grammar.


I imagine it like your arms have arms and those have arms until you have a ridiculous set of branching arm wings. Armception.


chaoseffect wrote:
I imagine it like your arms have arms and those have arms until you have a ridiculous set of branching arm wings. Armception.

Okay I just looked like your avatar while laughing at this.

Edit: I'm not bald though.


Need the arms, then need to buy the natural attacks for it, get that monster feat thats like TWF so your negatives aren't horrible. then, get Feral Combat training with the natural attack, and i think? it'll work


I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.


Zwordsman wrote:
Need the arms, then need to buy the natural attacks for it, get that monster feat thats like TWF so your negatives aren't horrible. then, get Feral Combat training with the natural attack, and i think? it'll work

I don't think you understand Natural Attacks. They have nothing to do with two weapon fighting or BAB. You get them all in a full attack regardless.

What he's saying is essentially he wants to use his 26 hands to each use a manufactured weapon to attack, which is a thing. It's what Two Weapon Fighting does for people with two hands, and what Multiweapon Fighting does for things with more than two hands.


chaoseffect wrote:

Having the arms (or hands) to have extra off hands is what gives you potential extra attacks, though at extreme negatives. The feat two weapon fighting/multiweapon fighting just reduce the negatives. Improved unarmed strike lets you make those off-hand attacks literally with hands. The feats aren't even necessary to give you the attacks, they just make them less useless.

Having additional arms does not grant PCs additional manufactured attacks, there is nothing in the rules that allows this. You only get attacks from BAB and the Two-Weapon Fighting line. Multi-weapon fighting does not grant attacks, and is intended for NPCs.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.


chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.

Its a bestiary feat, it does literally nothing for pcs.


Calth wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:

Having the arms (or hands) to have extra off hands is what gives you potential extra attacks, though at extreme negatives. The feat two weapon fighting/multiweapon fighting just reduce the negatives. Improved unarmed strike lets you make those off-hand attacks literally with hands. The feats aren't even necessary to give you the attacks, they just make them less useless.

Having additional arms does not grant PCs additional manufactured attacks, there is nothing in the rules that allows this. You only get attacks from BAB and the Two-Weapon Fighting line. Multi-weapon fighting does not grant attacks, and is intended for NPCs.

I would argue that the intention of who should use the feat is irrelevant and the fact that races with more limbs do get more attacks potentially (hence Multiweapon Fighting even being a thing) would imply it does work, unless we're getting into "unwritten rules" territory or the mentioned FAQ I haven't seen.


Calth wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:

Having the arms (or hands) to have extra off hands is what gives you potential extra attacks, though at extreme negatives. The feat two weapon fighting/multiweapon fighting just reduce the negatives. Improved unarmed strike lets you make those off-hand attacks literally with hands. The feats aren't even necessary to give you the attacks, they just make them less useless.

Having additional arms does not grant PCs additional manufactured attacks, there is nothing in the rules that allows this. You only get attacks from BAB and the Two-Weapon Fighting line. Multi-weapon fighting does not grant attacks, and is intended for NPCs.

Then how does it work for NPCs that is? I mean if I look up say a Marilith she works pretty much how it's proposed?


chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.

It was the armor spikes FAQ which stated you couldn't take multiple attacks just from putting more weapons on you.

aka, you can't headbutt with a helmet, kick with bladed boots, swing a greatsword, and attack with armor spikes all in the same round even if they all used different limbs because you only had one "offhand."

Give me a while to find it, there was quite a bit of crap over it.


Calth wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.
Its a bestiary feat, it does literally nothing for pcs.

This is under Monster feats:

"Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct)."

If you qualify you can take them.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.

It was the armor spikes FAQ which stated you couldn't take multiple attacks just from putting more weapons on you.

aka, you can't headbutt with a helmet, kick with bladed boots, swing a greatsword, and attack with armor spikes all in the same round even if they all used different limbs because you only had one "offhand."

Give me a while to find it, there was quite a bit of crap over it.

Ok I see what you are saying, but I don't believe this would apply here. You literally have more arms. You actually have more hands. Monsters with more arms do this all the time and it is supported by the rules, it is just that the rules being applicable to PCs are a rare occurrence as they so rarely physically qualify.


chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.

It was the armor spikes FAQ which stated you couldn't take multiple attacks just from putting more weapons on you.

aka, you can't headbutt with a helmet, kick with bladed boots, swing a greatsword, and attack with armor spikes all in the same round even if they all used different limbs because you only had one "offhand."

Give me a while to find it, there was quite a bit of crap over it.

Ok I see what you are saying, but I don't believe this would apply here. You literally have more arms. You actually have more hands. Monsters with more arms do this all the time and it is supported by the rules.

But you still don't gain any weapon attacks. Arms do not grant manufactured attacks for PCs. If multi-weapon fighting said you could make attacks with your arms, like two-weapon fighting, it would work like you think, but it doesn't. You have to be granted an attack in some way to gain advantage, and Multi-Weapon fighting does not do so.


chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.

It was the armor spikes FAQ which stated you couldn't take multiple attacks just from putting more weapons on you.

aka, you can't headbutt with a helmet, kick with bladed boots, swing a greatsword, and attack with armor spikes all in the same round even if they all used different limbs because you only had one "offhand."

Give me a while to find it, there was quite a bit of crap over it.

Ok I see what you are saying, but I don't believe this would apply here. You literally have more arms. You actually have more hands. Monsters with more arms do this all the time and it is supported by the rules, it is just that the rules being applicable to PCs are a rare occurrence as they so rarely physically qualify.

The offhand in question is not a physical arm. It is clarified to be a metaphysical rule which was meant to stipulate that base a PC shouldn't get more than 1.5 STR per attack, either flat out from two handing or 1 + .5 for two weapons.

The hand in question is not an actual hand, its basically a "slot" that you can either subsume with an off hand attack or by using a two handed weapon. It does not grow in number based off your limbs, as its not a real hand.


Calth wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I'm sorry, but extra limbs doesn't grant more attacks. There was explicitly an FAQ on such things where there is a number of "hands" that are metaphysical, a main hand and an off hand. The mere presence of more limbs does not grant more "off hands."

You can 2 weapon fight, but you can't 3 weapon fight, or 4 weapon fight.

So I'm sorry, you don't get more attacks based on your number of limbs unless you use natural attacks, in which case you are hard limited by the eidolon part.

Aka, extra limbs does nothing in and of itself to grant you more attacks except allowing more limbs to put natural attacks or for you to switch between attacking with.

Could you point me in the direction of the FAQ? Because as you are saying, more limbs does not give more attacks, I wonder what the feat Multiweapon Fighting does besides literally nothing.

It was the armor spikes FAQ which stated you couldn't take multiple attacks just from putting more weapons on you.

aka, you can't headbutt with a helmet, kick with bladed boots, swing a greatsword, and attack with armor spikes all in the same round even if they all used different limbs because you only had one "offhand."

Give me a while to find it, there was quite a bit of crap over it.

Ok I see what you are saying, but I don't believe this would apply here. You literally have more arms. You actually have more hands. Monsters with more arms do this all the time and it is supported by the rules.
But you still don't gain any weapon attacks. Arms do not grant manufactured attacks for PCs. If multi-weapon fighting said you could make attacks with your arms, like two-weapon fighting, it would work like you think, but it doesn't. You have to be granted an attack in some way to gain advantage, and Multi-Weapon fighting does not do so.

The point of the thought experiment is to combine it with Improved Unarmed Strike. Unarmed strikes work as manufactured weapons.


Improved Unarmed Strike doesn't add attacks either, it just lets you make them without provoking.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:

The offhand in question is not a physical arm. It is clarified to be a metaphysical rule which was meant to stipulate that base a PC shouldn't get more than 1.5 STR per attack, either flat out from two handing or 1 + .5 for two weapons.

The hand in question is not an actual hand, its basically a "slot" that you can either subsume with an off hand attack or by using a two handed weapon. It does not grow in number based off your limbs, as its not a real hand.

The issue with this explanation is that all creatures who use Muliweapon Fighting actually can't. They don't function. Multiweapon Fighting does nothing. I can see you explanation making sense in the context of two-handing for extra damage, but this is something different entirely.

Calth wrote:
Having an arm doesn't grant a natural attack either, and natural attacks would be limited by the eidolan attack limit.

The question has nothing to do with natural attacks, which have their own rules unrelated to those of two weapon fighting/multiweapon fighting and manufactured weapons/unarmed strikes.

What we're debating is whether or not having more arms would allow you make more manufactured weapon attacks as per the rules for Multiweapon Fighting.


chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

The offhand in question is not a physical arm. It is clarified to be a metaphysical rule which was meant to stipulate that base a PC shouldn't get more than 1.5 STR per attack, either flat out from two handing or 1 + .5 for two weapons.

The hand in question is not an actual hand, its basically a "slot" that you can either subsume with an off hand attack or by using a two handed weapon. It does not grow in number based off your limbs, as its not a real hand.

The issue with this explanation is that all creatures who use Muliweapon Fighting actually can't. They don't function. Multiweapon Fighting does nothing. I can see you explanation making sense in the context of two-handing for extra damage, but this is something different entirely.

Multi-weapon mastery works for creatures because they don't follow the same rules as pcs. If you want your bestiary mob to have arms grant attacks, they do. The same creature as a PC wouldn't gain those extra attacks.


Well I can't seem to find the thread in question, but here they flat out state than even a weapon that doesn't use a hand is invalidated by the fact that you're using a two handed weapon and thus don't have an off hand free.

Armor Spikes FAQ

The original thread had a lot more clarification, but eating your way through all the questions about the FAQ really is quite difficult :P


Calth wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:

The offhand in question is not a physical arm. It is clarified to be a metaphysical rule which was meant to stipulate that base a PC shouldn't get more than 1.5 STR per attack, either flat out from two handing or 1 + .5 for two weapons.

The hand in question is not an actual hand, its basically a "slot" that you can either subsume with an off hand attack or by using a two handed weapon. It does not grow in number based off your limbs, as its not a real hand.

The issue with this explanation is that all creatures who use Muliweapon Fighting actually can't. They don't function. Multiweapon Fighting does nothing. I can see you explanation making sense in the context of two-handing for extra damage, but this is something different entirely.
Multi-weapon mastery works for creatures because they don't follow the same rules as pcs. If you want your bestiary mob to have arms grant attacks, they do. The same creature as a PC wouldn't gain those extra attacks.

Because it is impossible in most circumstances and as such a non-issue. It becomes an issue when a PC qualifies for a monster feat that he is RAW allowed to take and gains its benefit, which was unexpected from the design perspective. That doesn't stop it from working.

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

Well I can't seem to find the thread in question, but here they flat out state than even a weapon that doesn't use a hand is invalidated by the fact that you're using a two handed weapon and thus don't have an off hand free.

Armor Spikes FAQ

The original thread had a lot more clarification, but eating your way through all the questions about the FAQ really is quite difficult :P

Thanks for pointing that out, but can you see my perspective where pointing out that you cannot two-hand a weapon for more damage and have an open hand if you have three arms is not the same as what is being discussed? We're essentially talking about Multiweapon Fighting rules, using a one handed weapon in each hand. It is not related to the discussion mentioned.


Yeah I've been searching the bestiary and all entries that use multiweapon fighting have no other abilities that "grant" attacks besides the "flavor" of being multi-armed. I do understand what you're saying I just see no actual rules for it.


Yes it does, look at the Kasatha race, the PCs don't gain any extra attacks, but Bestiary creatures do.

Onyxlion wrote:
Yeah I've been searching the bestiary and all entries that use multiweapon fighting have no other abilities that "grant" attacks besides the "flavor" of being mulitarmed. I do understand what you're saying I just see no actual rules for it.

That's not how the rules systems work, I don't need a rule saying you don't get the attacks, you need a rule saying you do, and multi-weapon fighting does not.


Its an unfortunate side effect, but those are the current rules per FAQ from the developers.

Paizo's stance is that you have a limited number of attacks based on something you have no way to increase that really wasn't written into the core rules unless you read it in an awkward way.

Per RAW without the FAQ you could probably try claiming it works. Post FAQ, even weapons that do not require a hand still don't get a free pass.

Edit: It is related because they're still talking about the number of attacks you can make based on your metaphysical hands. Heck even if you can't find the original FAQ in thread you can do a quick search and find dozens of threads that reference the same thing. You have a "main hand" and an "off hand" that are completely unaltered by limbs. Doesn't matter if you had 1000.

If you tried to two weapon fight each attack would either take up your "main hand" or "off hand".


Calth wrote:
That's not how the rules systems work, I don't need a rule saying you don't get the attacks, you need a rule saying you do, and multi-weapon fighting does not.

There is no ruling on a Marilith or any particular multi-armed creature that says it is entitled to more attack by having more arms, yet it does. The very fact that Multiweapon Fighting exists implies this is the case though it is not clearly spelled out due to the thinking by devs that it would never be applicable to PCs.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:

Its an unfortunate side effect, but those are the current rules per FAQ from the developers.

Paizo's stance is that you have a limited number of attacks based on something you have no way to increase that really wasn't written into the core rules unless you read it in an awkward way.

Per RAW without the FAQ you could probably try claiming it works. Post FAQ, even weapons that do not require a hand still don't get a free pass.

The thing is the FAQ is talking in terms of using two-handed weapons and other weapons. This is not. It's like apples and oranges, the difference between using a greatsword and two weapon fighting.


If you want to ask for an errata for it, go ahead, but its clear from RAW you don't gain attacks from Multi-weapon fighting, and the devs have made it fully clear that the current attack limitations are RAI.


What does mutant - extra arm do? Does that still do absolutely nothing? How about eidolons can they not use it even though it says they can hold weapons in them?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mutant-creature -cr-1


Onyxlion wrote:

What does mutant - extra arm do? Does that still do absolutely nothing? How about eidolons can they not use it even though it says they can hold weapons in them?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mutant-creature -cr-1

For a PC, mutant extra arm would grant an extra free hand for things that require such, but no attacks. An eidolan gains no additional attacks directly from limbs evolutions, ever.


Calth wrote:
If you want to ask for an errata for it, go ahead, but its clear from RAW you don't gain attacks from Multi-weapon fighting, and the devs have made it fully clear that the current attack limitations are RAI.

I'm not arguing the feat does anything besides what it says: It reduces the penalties for two weapon fighting for creatures with more arms who then presumably gain more attacks for having those arms with one handed weapons. The feat does not give attacks. If you are saying that having more hands does not give more attacks, then many bestiary creatures are invalidated as they lack racial rules giving them more attacks.

It seems to be an implied extension of the base rules for two weapon fighting that gives extra attacks for more literally armed hands:

"If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways. First, if your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light. Second, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6."


Technically yes, that is the case, but creatures are run by GM fiat as is, so it doesn't matter that they don't follow the rules that PCs must follow.

You can see whatever implied extension you want, extra arms don't add extra attacks for PCs. If they did, every single martial in existence would be a Kasatha because it is that overpowered.


So you get an extra arm and a bonus feat called multiweapon fighting that does absolutely nothing and the only way to get more is from some unnamed, unquantified, unwritten rule?


yep


Calth wrote:
Technically yes, that is the case, but creatures are run by GM fiat as is, so it doesn't matter that they don't follow the rules that PCs must follow.

I disagree. If everything in the bestiary is meant not to follow the rules and exist purely by fiat, why do monsters have specific abilities justifying letting them do things that are impossible otherwise? Why do monsters need feats like Improved Natural Attack when you could just say "the bite does 2d6?" Monsters still follow the rules unless they have specific abilities that let them not.


No an eidolon can't get extra attacks for holding multiple weapons.

Really if you wanna flat out get into it, this is a permissive rules system. You have to have permission to do something in order to do it. The rules explicitly call out you can wield a 2nd weapon in your offhand for one extra attack.

Any more and its not two weapon fighting because its not a 2nd weapon and thus you do not by RAW gain additional attacks.


chaoseffect wrote:
Calth wrote:
Technically yes, that is the case, but creatures are run by GM fiat as is, so it doesn't matter that they don't follow the rules that PCs must follow.
I disagree. If everything in the bestiary is meant not to follow the rules and exist purely by fiat, why do monsters have specific abilities justifying letting them do things that are impossible otherwise? Why do monsters need feats like Improved Natural Attack when you could just say "the bite does 2d6?" Monsters still follow the rules unless they have specific abilities that let them not.

Then its the bestiary mobs that are broken and a new rule needs to be added to them, because there is nothingthat allows what you are asking for.

1 to 50 of 189 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Does this 26 punches pummeling style work? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.