Natural weapon barb -> add manufactured weapon or not?


Advice


I am playing a kobold natural attack barbarian (invulnerable rager) who, right now uses two claws and a bite. We just reached level 5 so I have at least 1 feat, possibly 2 (with a dip for a bonus feat) to spend.

I managed to get a strength of 16 (20 while raging) and I have a furious AOMF. In the long run natural weapons get less and less strong because of loosing iteratives.

My options, as I see them:
1) Take power attack (yea, I don't have it yet)
2) Take power attack and multiattack, use armor spikes in addition to natural attacks
3) Take power attack and tail terror for more natural attacks
4) Take tail terror and multiattack and use armor spikes

5) Go a different route, take draconic breath and noxious bite for debuff madness.

The GM is ok with me using monster feats so no need for a discussion about them being legal. For other suggestions, PF stuff is legal but 3pp is not.
The thing is I already have another kobold pc with noxious bite. And while it is strong (perhaps even too strong) that's the reason I think I'll stay away from that.


I find combining manufactured weapons with natural attacks just do not cut it unless you have other sources of damage e.g. elemental, arcane strike etc.

One simple way to calculate is to add up and compare the total value of strength bonus.

If you are worried about losing iteratives, you can buy Helm of the Mammoth Lord and Cloak, Tentacle (ultimate combat) for an additional gore attack, and 2 secondary tentacles respectively. All at full bab except for the tentacles and your tail.

Only way I feel manufactured are better is that they can upgrade to certain enhancement bonuses at cheaper fees to negate DR.


Unless someone is two-weapon fighting they won't get more than 3 attacks until 16th level. The real benefit to going manufactured is one and a half strength on attacks (two-handed weapon) instead of just normal strength. Between a bunch of attacks with a light weapon (armor spikes) with a good chance to miss (iteratives) or three attacks at full BAB and full strength, I know which I would choose. Multiattack doesn't help with the "half strength on secondary attacks".

Personally, I would go power attack and tail terror, then use the Long Lash tail attachment to get reach with your tail. It stops being a natural weapon but you get a surprise smack to the face to anyone without reach trying to move up to you.


Bob Bob Bob wrote:


Personally, I would go power attack and tail terror, then use the Long Lash tail attachment to get reach with your tail. It stops being a natural weapon but you get a surprise smack to the face to anyone without reach trying to move up to you.

Never thought about that. Can I attack with my natural weapons on my turn and still make an AoO with a manufactured weapon when it is not my turn?


I did some math a while ago with unarmed strikes and multi-attack, with claw-claw-bite. It seemed to only be worth it after your third iterative, as the -to-hit on your iterative and natural attacks lowered their dps enough where it didn't increase damage. This was used assuming full BAB attacks were 100% to hit, and this a -5 was 75%, -10 = 50%.

natural attacks are pretty good when they're all primary.

remember secondary natural attacks, use .5 strength to damage, when used with a manufactured weapon.

I recommend feral combat training and dragon style, to over come this on your claws.


I can't find the rules citation at the moment but to the best of my knowledge AoO don't interact with the normal turn. If it did you'd get some rules weirdness. For instance, AoO with a manufactured weapon, does that make last round's natural attacks do less damage retroactively? Next round's natural attacks do less damage? AoO and your turn should not interact at all, so you can safely make AoO with a manufactured weapon and full attack with natural attacks.


I decided against the dip and thus against the second feat to not delay my barbarian progression. While 5th level is rather empty for an invulnerable rager 6th is nice. I get cold resistance 1 (boosted to 3 by unscathed trait), DR increases and I get a rage power with new choices to qualify for.

Because of that I only took power attack. But that is already a significant increase in damage.

Thanks for the advice.


The math gets messy. Short answer is that early levels you carry around a 2h that you use when you move, dropping it when you make a full attack and use your natural attacks.

When you get your iterative it makes things... funny. The short of it is that you can do either style. Focus on either one or the other and you will be just fine.

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