ebola wars

[yellowdingo]

Simon Legrande wrote:

You know, I have ebola cereal for breakfast almost every morning and I feel fine. I must be immune. Hooray!

Its the ones with strong immune systems that die horribly...

[thejeff]

BigDTBone wrote:

All the things brought up in that article are what many of my friends in medical research have been saying for months.

A buddy of mine is a cellular immunologist and literally laughs out loud whenever she hears someone say "it can only be transmitted by patients who are displaying symptoms," and holds a great deal of contempt for the idea that fluid/fluid transfer is the only possible transmission vector.

And yet somehow Ebola keeps behaving the same way. People keep getting it when they're exposed to fluids from people in the very late stages of the disease or through contact with bodies of those who've died and not through casual contact with who later come down with it or even people in the early stages.

Whatever your friends in medical research think, the experts actually working with the disease keep saying the same thing - isolate once symptoms appear. It actually is a hard disease to get, unless you're taking care of someone very sick from it.

None of Duncan's family or close contacts became ill, despite him being sent home with a 103 fever for two more days. No one who had contact with Nurse Vimson became ill. We're not out of the incubation period for possible contact with Dr. Spencer, but we're through the most likely time. It's even starting to look like the girl in Mali, who died the day after being admitted to the hospital and thus was likely much sicker, didn't infect anyone - I really thought that was probably going to be bad.

Now, if your friends are just talking about theoretical, but extremely unlikely routes of transmission, they're probably right. It's probably possible - blood transfusion early on before symptoms appear or some other methods once the viral load is high and the patient is very ill, maybe. But as far as epidemiology goes, those are basically irrelevant. They aren't going to have a noticeable impact on keeping an outbreak contained. Even on an individual level the risk is so low that even if you've had casual contact with someone who later came down with Ebola, there are far bigger risks in your everyday life.

[Simon Legrande]

yellowdingo wrote:

Simon Legrande wrote:

You know, I have ebola cereal for breakfast almost every morning and I feel fine. I must be immune. Hooray!

Its the ones with strong immune systems that die horribly...

If I do somehow managed to get infected, I'll just go out and get struck by lightning. Because I'm 99% sure that lightning cures ebola.

[BigDTBone]

thejeff wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

All the things brought up in that article are what many of my friends in medical research have been saying for months.

A buddy of mine is a cellular immunologist and literally laughs out loud whenever she hears someone say "it can only be transmitted by patients who are displaying symptoms," and holds a great deal of contempt for the idea that fluid/fluid transfer is the only possible transmission vector.

And yet somehow Ebola keeps behaving the same way. People keep getting it when they're exposed to fluids from people in the very late stages of the disease or through contact with bodies of those who've died and not through casual contact with who later come down with it or even people in the early stages.

Whatever your friends in medical research think, the experts actually working with the disease keep saying the same thing - isolate once symptoms appear. It actually is a hard disease to get, unless you're taking care of someone very sick from it.

None of Duncan's family or close contacts became ill, despite him being sent home with a 103 fever for two more days. No one who had contact with Nurse Vimson became ill. We're not out of the incubation period for possible contact with Dr. Spencer, but we're through the most likely time. It's even starting to look like the girl in Mali, who died the day after being admitted to the hospital and thus was likely much sicker, didn't infect anyone - I really thought that was probably going to be bad.

Now, if your friends are just talking about theoretical, but extremely unlikely routes of transmission, they're probably right. It's probably possible - blood transfusion early on before symptoms appear or some other methods once the viral load is high and the patient is very ill, maybe. But as far as epidemiology goes, those are basically irrelevant. They aren't going to have a noticeable impact on keeping an outbreak contained. Even on an individual level the risk is so low that even if you've had casual contact with someone who...

Believe whatever makes you happy.

Both nurses in Texas that were infected were said to have committed a breach of protocol, yet no one can explain or point to those particular breaches. The first two doctors to come back to the states for treatment were in full isolation suits and caught it.

Clearly there are transmission vectors in play that we don't understand.

[thejeff]

BigDTBone wrote:

thejeff wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

All the things brought up in that article are what many of my friends in medical research have been saying for months.

A buddy of mine is a cellular immunologist and literally laughs out loud whenever she hears someone say "it can only be transmitted by patients who are displaying symptoms," and holds a great deal of contempt for the idea that fluid/fluid transfer is the only possible transmission vector.

And yet somehow Ebola keeps behaving the same way. People keep getting it when they're exposed to fluids from people in the very late stages of the disease or through contact with bodies of those who've died and not through casual contact with who later come down with it or even people in the early stages.

Whatever your friends in medical research think, the experts actually working with the disease keep saying the same thing - isolate once symptoms appear. It actually is a hard disease to get, unless you're taking care of someone very sick from it.

None of Duncan's family or close contacts became ill, despite him being sent home with a 103 fever for two more days. No one who had contact with Nurse Vimson became ill. We're not out of the incubation period for possible contact with Dr. Spencer, but we're through the most likely time. It's even starting to look like the girl in Mali, who died the day after being admitted to the hospital and thus was likely much sicker, didn't infect anyone - I really thought that was probably going to be bad.

Now, if your friends are just talking about theoretical, but extremely unlikely routes of transmission, they're probably right. It's probably possible - blood transfusion early on before symptoms appear or some other methods once the viral load is high and the patient is very ill, maybe. But as far as epidemiology goes, those are basically irrelevant. They aren't going to have a noticeable impact on keeping an outbreak contained. Even on an individual level the risk is so low that even if you've had casual

Believe whatever makes you happy.

Both nurses in Texas that were infected were said to have committed a breach of protocol, yet no one can explain or point to those particular breaches. The first two doctors to come back to the states for treatment were in full isolation suits and caught it.

Clearly there are transmission vectors in play that we don't understand.

As I said, it's very dangerous in the late stages, viral load is very high, it only takes a little bit of contact to be a problem and the patient is emitting gallons of virus laden bodily fluids.

We don't know exactly what went wrong in Texas. We do know that the Dallas Hospital was slow in implementing the full protocols. We do know that they hadn't had updated training for staff in following the protocols. Among other things they didn't have anyone watching when removing the protective gear, which is when many protocol breaches happen.

It's possible there's something else going on that's being overlooked in late-stage transmission, though I suspect human error is enough to explain the known cases. That's not an attack - the protocols are hard to follow, especially in West Africa where the workload is overwhelming and conditions are rough.

That has nothing to do with justifying quarantines, which are all based on worries about asymptomatic or very early stage transmission. Nor is it really a concern at the "stopping an epidemic" level. Such transmissions are rare enough not to prolong an outbreak, when protocols are in place.

We know how to stop the epidemic: Get enough resources in place to isolate and treat anyone who presents with symptoms. Trace their recent contacts and monitor them, getting them into isolation early. The problem in West Africa hasn't been mysterious infections that standard protocols don't prevent, but that the number of cases is growing faster than the health care system and international response can keep up with, along with local customs that facilitate transmission, especially funeral customs, and some distrust of the government and of medical workers.

[yellowdingo]

The mistrust is high, mobs gather when those who handle the bodies are working.

[yellowdingo]

oops! Islamic religious leader misdiagnosed.
Now followers, friends, family, and anyone who cared for his corpse is infected, dying, or dead. New ebola strain doesnt seem to have hemmoragic bleeding. Kidney failure. Awesome. Symptoms will be dehydration, constriction of airways, inability to breath while sleeping.

new york times article

[Doodlebug Anklebiter]

I can't believe that I forgot that one of my schoolchums had moved out to the Bay Area in the mid-'90s and has been plugging away with his band Bobby Joe Ebola and the Children MacNuggits ever since. I wonder if he's gotten any increased attention lately.

Here they do a fake metal/D&Desque tune: Bone Dagger

[yellowdingo]

doctor in usa dies of ebola

[Coriat]

Well, I'm pretty sorry to hear that.

[yellowdingo]

man 'cured of ebola' returns to India from liberia, tests positive to ebola in sperm.

[yellowdingo]

deceased woman to be tested for ebola after dying from heart attack after returning from Guinea.

Didnt have bleedy bleedy ebola symptoms. It might be the nasty one that targets kidneys that people think is flu.

[thejeff]

yellowdingo wrote:

deceased woman to be tested for ebola after dying from heart attack after returning from Guinea.

Didnt have bleedy bleedy ebola symptoms. It might be the nasty one that targets kidneys that people think is flu.

Sounds like a precaution. It's possible, of course, but the only real indication is that she was in Guinea.

If it was Ebola, it'll be interesting to see the public reaction.

[yellowdingo]

thejeff wrote:

yellowdingo wrote:

deceased woman to be tested for ebola after dying from heart attack after returning from Guinea.

Didnt have bleedy bleedy ebola symptoms. It might be the nasty one that targets kidneys that people think is flu.

Sounds like a precaution. It's possible, of course, but the only real indication is that she was in Guinea.

If it was Ebola, it'll be interesting to see the public reaction.

If it turn out to be ebola spread in drinking water, it will be a threat because terrorist will be able to use it.

[thejeff]

yellowdingo wrote:

thejeff wrote:

yellowdingo wrote:

deceased woman to be tested for ebola after dying from heart attack after returning from Guinea.

Didnt have bleedy bleedy ebola symptoms. It might be the nasty one that targets kidneys that people think is flu.

Sounds like a precaution. It's possible, of course, but the only real indication is that she was in Guinea.

If it was Ebola, it'll be interesting to see the public reaction.

If it turn out to be ebola spread in drinking water, it will be a threat because terrorist will be able to use it.

And if it turns out to be ebola spread by bad mangos, the terrorists will be able to use it too.

Overwhelmingly likely it isn't ebola. If it is, overwhelmingly likely it was spread by the known vectors.

One comment in that article suggests the Mali imam was a different strain and suggests drinking water, but gives no evidence. AFAICT, while the imam was misdiagnosed and died of kidney failure, that's a possible effect of the current strain, which he acquired in Guinea and passed to others in Mali, by the normal methods and with the normal symptoms.

[yellowdingo]

thejeff wrote:

yellowdingo wrote:

thejeff wrote:

yellowdingo wrote:

deceased woman to be tested for ebola after dying from heart attack after returning from Guinea.

Didnt have bleedy bleedy ebola symptoms. It might be the nasty one that targets kidneys that people think is flu.

Sounds like a precaution. It's possible, of course, but the only real indication is that she was in Guinea.

If it was Ebola, it'll be interesting to see the public reaction.

If it turn out to be ebola spread in drinking water, it will be a threat because terrorist will be able to use it.

And if it turns out to be ebola spread by bad mangos, the terrorists will be able to use it too.

Overwhelmingly likely it isn't ebola. If it is, overwhelmingly likely it was spread by the known vectors.

One comment in that article suggests the Mali imam was a different strain and suggests drinking water, but gives no evidence. AFAICT, while the imam was misdiagnosed and died of kidney failure, that's a possible effect of the current strain, which he acquired in Guinea and passed to others in Mali, by the normal methods and with the normal symptoms.

'Rome's fall (was) not as a consequence of specific, dramatic events, but as the result of gradual transformations including the decline of civic virtue and the rise of Christianity, which made the Romans less vested in worldly affairs, shifting their attention towards the rewards waiting for them in the Kingdom of Heaven.' here's hoping the tyrants win.

[yellowdingo]

the other stuff we are dying from

[yellowdingo]

pay dispute in sierra leone results in dumping of ebola victims bodies

And...the corruption is kicking in.

[Scythia]

An organization sent a team of doctors to Liberia, to fight ebola... with homeopathy.

I didn't know that in addition to the Ebola epidemic, Liberia was suffering a sugar pill shortage.

[yellowdingo]

Scythia wrote:

An organization sent a team of doctors to Liberia, to fight ebola... with homeopathy.

I didn't know that in addition to the Ebola epidemic, Liberia was suffering a sugar pill shortage.

Scythia...slap me in the face. I live on a planet with people who are either dumb-ass or evil. Probably wont fix the problem but I think I have this comming.

I just realized I qualify to be a doctor. Here let me shake this bone rattle to drive out the evil spirits that cause ebola...miley Cyrus Begone!

[Scythia]

yellowdingo wrote:

Scythia wrote:

An organization sent a team of doctors to Liberia, to fight ebola... with homeopathy.

I didn't know that in addition to the Ebola epidemic, Liberia was suffering a sugar pill shortage.

Scythia...slap me in the face. I live on a planet with people who are either dumb-ass or evil. Probably wont fix the problem but I think I have this comming.

I just realized I qualify to be a doctor. Here let me shake this bone rattle to drive out the evil spirits that cause ebola...miley Cyrus Begone!

I'm reminded of a joke line that's sadly too true these days (updated for this era): "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on the internet"

[yellowdingo]

vaccine ready for trials in 2015

[yellowdingo]

because not being sorry for ignoring quarantine rules realy angers the rest of us?

[thejeff]

yellowdingo wrote:

because not being sorry for ignoring quarantine rules realy angers the rest of us?

I'm somewhat torn on that one. On the one hand, breaking her self-imposed quarantine did no harm and put no one at risk. There was no reason for her to be quarantined in the first place.

On the other hand, she'd publicly agreed to it and then broken it on a whim and added to the fuss and ruckus about whether people could be trusted to self-monitor and the like.

So basically, she should never have agreed to the quarantine, but once she did, sneaking out was really bad.

[yellowdingo]

twenty plus days after hugging ebola survivor, president Obama has sore throat

Ebola?

[yellowdingo]

new protective suit because...plastic apron, dust mask, and splash goggles were...a lie.

[thejeff]

yellowdingo wrote:

new protective suit because...plastic apron, dust mask, and splash goggles were...a lie.

Not so much a lie, as the new suit is cooler, which is important for being able to work in it for extended periods in Africa, and more importantly easier to take off safely.