Nymor |
If a warpriest takes Critical Versatility using one of his "special bonus feats", can he choose which feats to "copy" with his class level as both bab and fighter level?
For example, if a warpriest takes both critical versatility and tiring critical with his bonus feats, can he copy exhausting critical at level 15?
Trekkie90909 |
Bonus Feats: At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a
warpriest gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained
from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be
selected from those listed as combat feats. The warpriest
must meet the prerequisites for these feats, but he treats his
warpriest level as his base attack bonus for these feats (in
addition to base attack bonuses gained from other classes
and racial Hit Dice). Finally, for the purposes of these feats,
the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number
of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest
level as his fighter level.
Yes, but you'd have to be human as normal to take critical versatility (and obviously have critical focus).
Claxon |
This has already been argued about in some way, without an official resolution.
There are two positions:
1) A warpriest only counts as having full BAB for the purposes of qualifying for bonus feat
2) A warpriest counts as having full BAB for the prerequisites and for using the feat. So, if a warpriest selected Power Attack as a bonus feat and was level 8 he would take a -3 penalty and gain 6 damage.
Personally, I think interpretation 2 is incorrect as the passage is about qualifying for feats.
Trekkie90909 if it works as #1 then no. If it works as #2 yes. At this time there is not an official stance to my knowledge.
Owen K. C. Stephens Modules Overlord |
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Noting that I had nothing to do with writing the war priest's ability, and this is not an official answer:
I agree this would work. The warpriest's bonus feat ability says "The war priest must meet the prerequisite for these feats, but but he treats his war priest level as his base attack bonus for these feats (in addition to base attack bonus gained from other classes and racial hit dice).
So if you take Critical Versatility, for that feat you treat your wp level as your bab, and that would include what feats it gives you access to.
I'd argue the same is true of Power Attack taken with the wp bonus feat -- you'd figure your penalty and damage bonus from your wp level, rather than bab.
dragonhunterq |
dragon; re-read the class ability. The Warpriest treats his warpriest level as his bab for all purposes of his bonus feats. Not just the pre-reqs.
Yeah I did, and I don't think it say's what you think it does. That whole paragraph is about gaining feats and the pre-reqs and selection of feats. Nowhere does it say 'all purposes'. Nowhere does it refer to the function of the feats. Anything to the contrary is taking one half of one sentence out of context in light of the whole ability.
Owen K. C. Stephens Modules Overlord |
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It's pretty rare for a rule to actually say "for all purposes." It is, however, very common for them to specify something only applies for purposes of prerequisites, which is not the case here.
Looking at the brawler class's "brawler's cunning" it says it's Int counts as 13 "for purpose of meeting the prerequisites of combat feats."
Martial training says "a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats."
Now I agree it's not clear, but the way things are normally worded is to call out something is just for prerequisites (like even the warpriest bonus feats does about using his warpriest level as fighter level as a prerequisite when selecting treats, rather than the broader stament about his base attack bonus.
OTOH it would be a bit odd for Power Attack to work differently for the warpriest depending on when he took it (normal feat or bonus feat), which is one reason an official ruling might go against me. :)
Claxon |
OTOH it would be a bit odd for Power Attack to work differently for the warpriest depending on when he took it (normal feat or bonus feat), which is one reason an official ruling might go against me. :)
Personally this is the reason I'm inclined to say no. The complexity of having some feats function differently for you because you took them with your bonus combat feats rather than your regular feats would be extremely confusing to players, and highly irregualr compared to how it works for every other class I can think of. It's too far out of the norm for me to accept that it is the intention without it be clarified to be more explicit (if that is there intention).
I strongly feel that if this is ever directly addressed by the Dev team it is unlikely to function that way.
Nymor |
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:OTOH it would be a bit odd for Power Attack to work differently for the warpriest depending on when he took it (normal feat or bonus feat), which is one reason an official ruling might go against me. :)Personally this is the reason I'm inclined to say no. The complexity of having some feats function differently for you because you took them with your bonus combat feats rather than your regular feats would be extremely confusing to players, and highly irregualr compared to how it works for every other class I can think of. It's too far out of the norm for me to accept that it is the intention without it be clarified to be more explicit (if that is there intention).
I strongly feel that if this is ever directly addressed by the Dev team it is unlikely to function that way.
Isn't monk's two weapon fighting (a.k.a. Flurry of blows) just what you're describing? (a talent -even if a fixed one- that makes you perform as if your bab is = to your class level)
Claxon |
Isn't monk's two weapon fighting (a.k.a. Flurry of blows) just what you're describing? (a talent -even if a fixed one- that makes you perform as if your bab is = to your class level)
No, because Two Weapon Fighting isn't a feat that monks take. Despite working a lot like it, Flurry is a class ability not a feat. It has a specific progression clearly laid out, and despite that it has also been a source of lots of confusion over the years.
It would be much more book keeping and work to keep your bonus feats separate from regular feats and make sure to apply your full level as your effective BAB for them and not for your other feats. It just doesn't make sense to me.
claudekennilol |
Nymor wrote:Isn't monk's two weapon fighting (a.k.a. Flurry of blows) just what you're describing? (a talent -even if a fixed one- that makes you perform as if your bab is = to your class level)No, because Two Weapon Fighting isn't a feat that monks take. Despite working a lot like it, Flurry is a class ability not a feat. It has a specific progression clearly laid out, and despite that it has also been a source of lots of confusion over the years.
It would be much more book keeping and work to keep your bonus feats separate from regular feats and make sure to apply your full level as your effective BAB for them and not for your other feats. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Claxon's point is basically that Warpriests will get two feats at lvl 3, at which point is the first time they can take a feat such as Power Attack. The argument is whether or not PA acts differently if they take Power Attack as their third level feat or as their first Bonus Combat Feat. Specifically his argument is that it's stupid to think that Power Attack would act differently depending on which "slot" it filled and that the feat should act the same regardless.
Though the description is left with enough vagueness that it could be read in such a way that it does matter. Again, this creates a lot of confusing situations and is probably not intended.
(I agree that it's supposed to be as Claxon says, btw, even though there's enough evidence to support the other side)