How have you surprised your GM lately?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Last session of my Rise group, my character got grappled but still attacked with his dwarven waraxe. My GM let out an exasperated 'how?' since finding a clear weakness to the character is difficult. I explained the description and showed him he had the exotic proficiency feat. Such joy... haha. The ironic thing is, I never set out to for that weapon build and got the waraxe through a fallen PC so he carries it mainly as a reminder of the character. I only ended up giving him the feat when we had some extended downtime and I did some retraining on the character.


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I stopped reading at 'synthesist'


Not to be a dick or nothing, but I thought you could only use light weapons while grappled?

In any case, I always love the reaction on a gms face when I introduce my summoner who is also a barbarian. Because why not.


By rules checking the Summoner at my table and discovering that many of the things that were making the guy unstoppable were just rules he was breaking that the GM was too inexperienced to be aware of.


Wow. Instant criticizing of the class I played rather than the question I posed especially when they have nothing to do with each other. Yay forums.

@FanaticRat:

Quote:
Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you.

There, I edited my post to just say 'character.' See how nothing changes?


Buri wrote:

Wow. Instant criticizing of the class I played rather than the question I posed especially when they have nothing to do with each other. Yay forums.

@FanaticRat:

Quote:
Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you.
There, I edited my post to just say 'character.' See how nothing changes?

My bad, I just misremembered the rules. I wasn't trying to criticize or anything.


No worries. That last line wasn't at you.


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Ally grappled by a tentacled monstrosity grappling him, ally near dead. CMB check is crazy high, so of course he's maintaining the grapple on my dear old buddy. Wizard strokes his beard, "I cast Maze."

"What does that do?" asks the DM

I read him the description.

DM Swears and, since it affects only one creature, no save, the grappler doesn't get to take his snack with him. Meanwhile, the creature, who we later find out has an int of 10, spends 4 minutes trying to escape while the party heals, buffs, battlefield controls, and waits with readied actions. When creature rolls a 20 on his Int check, he reappears... triggering 10 readied actions, which consist of our biggest blasts (naturally).


Buri wrote:
Wow. Instant criticizing of the class I played rather than the question I posed especially when they have nothing to do with each other. Yay forums.

For the record I wasn't trying to be antagonistic either, but in retrospect it absolutely looks like it and so I apologize.

The guy in my game was a real ass about it so... yeah.


Thanks for that.


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My GM isn't too familiar with the Oracle class, which is something I found out only after he approved my Oracle with the Lore mystery. 90% of my time with the character is goofy roleplaying. She's a doddering old lady with a penchant for the preparation and smoking of flayleaf, loudly talking smack on the rest of the party with the invisible spirits next to her, and awkwardly flirting with the party's big armored tank whom she's affectionately nicknamed "canned beef".

I think that 90% lowers my GM's expectations of granny's power level. Granny somehow has a high AC and Reflex saves (Sidestep Secret) and can regularly get ludicrously high Knowledge check results (Lore Keeper + Focused Trance). At one point, she successfully disarmed a Large scythe-wielding enemy and ran off with the weapon (Pilfering Han). There really wasn't alot of cheesy stuff I did, but the roleplaying seemed the cause my GM to lower his guard. Funny stuff.


A ratfolk bard was standing next to a huge beef-stick of a half-orc in medium armor with two kukris while my own half-orc alchemist was next to the TWF half-orc. The Bard drank a potion of invisibility, and then it went to my guy's turn. He five-foot stepped back, threw a bomb at the half-orc, and the splash-damage ended the ratfolk's invisibility, allowing the group's paladin to charge and critical the ratfolk in half. Turns out the ratfolk was going to try and run away to his family, because he didn't want to be there.

My half-orc didn't care.

That was the second thing that surprised the GM in that session. One of the brawlers in the group had the feat Step-Up, which he used twice to smack two different casters that tried getting off a spell.

Then there was a time where my druid's snake threw a goblin off a cliff, and another time when the snake climbed a vertical surface to get to an enemy in the shortest distance possible... Then the snake got turned into stone by a basilisk... :(

Silver Crusade

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I spotted the hiding bandits, but instead of attacking them, I waved to them and asked them if they needed anything because we saw some bodies earlier and a lot of blood and are you guys alright?

Ended up talking to them, learning how scared they were, reassuring them, and escorting them out of the dungeon (going the way we'd already cleared) to make sure they got out safely, then went on with our delve.

Turns out that after having run that scenario multiple times, ours was the first table that didn't just murderhobo them into paste.

"Good" is not a jersey.

...

Did I mention I'm a bloodrager?


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If I get stuck in a Tank role, I pack rat all manner of gear (rope, spikes, cloth, sledge, etc.). A local GM is switching to PF after wasting years in 4E, with little experience in real RP. After 8 hours of me literally pulling solutions out of my bags, we finally get to the loot pile. Having expended some 60lbs of water, rope and wine, the party discovered that everyone was so weight/move critical that only 'I, the tank' could haul more than 20 lbs of loot out. I dumped my 'possibles' bags and shifted the haul to over 120lbs, over half the total haul. Having run 4E only, she had never had to deal with players using non-magical solutions to events.

Incidentally, the other players got into my list of gear and used 1) candles for range finding 2)a grappling hook to pin an Ogre to a door for a trap reset 3) 3 hams to bribe a most reasonable troll 4) a few gallons of water to find a trap in a hallway 5) I used the wine as barter with a whole lot of goblins, ticking off the Dwarf 6) greasing the escape rope AFTER we passed.

After the game, the three aged GMs at the table took her to IHOP and did a brief seminar on GMing beyond the rules. She listened to us and ran two games this past weekend with positive reviews.

Shadow Lodge

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We enter a room, full of cages and one guy waiting by a switch. He gets a surprise action, flicking the switch, opening all the cage doors.
I then go first, cast mage hand, and flick the switch back.

The following fight ended up one-sided, with us taking on the one guy (who kept trying to get his backup). And when it did arrive, it was in twos, due to the fight over the switch.


Recently, I was playing a game where we were doing like a council meeting. I play a bard in the campain who isnt the best person in the world. A womanizer, who has been thrust into the role of a baron, but lives in a chivalric nation so he is kind of surrounded by people who just don't like him. Its a greyhawk based world campaign.

We had a world council meeting to decide if the many nations of said council (not sure if this is part of the actual campaign world anymore as this version of the world was running for like 15 years and has deviated from the normal path) Greyhawk, Furyondy, Nyrond, and many other nations were making a bid to try and go to war with the Pomarj as they had claimed the Ulek territories, and most of the Wild Coast.

Anyways had had a very narrow path for the system and it actually worked very well. We had to make arguments in this world council meeting, and counter others. Well- we made most of the standard arguments that he expected, but there was one thing that we absolutely could not argue against, but he expected us to do it regardless.

Well the surprise was... we didn't. In fact, every time the subject was brought up, we just razzle-dazzled our way from that subject. We rhetoric'd, and rabble'-rabbled. We were representing multiple nations, and we even started to argue amongst each other to divert attention away from the one weakpoint in our argument. We would just completely derail every attempt for our opposition to bring up their arguments sufficiently. Was funny and he did not expect it at all.


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Jenter Troiano wrote:
Turns out that after having run that scenario multiple times, ours was the first table that didn't just murderhobo them into paste.

Murderhobo is now a verb.

Inform Webster's.


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Bwang wrote:

If I get stuck in a Tank role, I pack rat all manner of gear (rope, spikes, cloth, sledge, etc.). A local GM is switching to PF after wasting years in 4E, with little experience in real RP. After 8 hours of me literally pulling solutions out of my bags, we finally get to the loot pile. Having expended some 60lbs of water, rope and wine, the party discovered that everyone was so weight/move critical that only 'I, the tank' could haul more than 20 lbs of loot out. I dumped my 'possibles' bags and shifted the haul to over 120lbs, over half the total haul. Having run 4E only, she had never had to deal with players using non-magical solutions to events.

Incidentally, the other players got into my list of gear and used 1) candles for range finding 2)a grappling hook to pin an Ogre to a door for a trap reset 3) 3 hams to bribe a most reasonable troll 4) a few gallons of water to find a trap in a hallway 5) I used the wine as barter with a whole lot of goblins, ticking off the Dwarf 6) greasing the escape rope AFTER we passed.

After the game, the three aged GMs at the table took her to IHOP and did a brief seminar on GMing beyond the rules. She listened to us and ran two games this past weekend with positive reviews.

Did she completely give up on 4e? I am not saying that to start an edition war, just that gming beyond the rules is a great thing and it would be a shame if she didn’t expand that to every system she plays instead of just thinking it's a pf only thing.


I bumped into mine while he was shopping for groceries. I was wearing a white shirt labeled on the front in black Helvetica: +1 shirt.

Needless to say, the aisle cleared out shortly thereafter.


FanaticRat wrote:
Did she completely give up on 4e? I am not saying that to start an edition war, just that gming beyond the rules is a great thing and it would be a shame if she didn’t expand that to every system she plays instead of just thinking it's a pf only thing.

There may be a reason someone who started playing with 4e or spent a long time playing 4e would have trouble thinking "outside the box."

Here's an excellent explanation.


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DM not knowing grapple rules, just like you Buri. My DM became a sad panda when he tried to grapple my DR 26, 1d6+35 scimitar wielding barbarian with a supposedly badass giant that strikes fear into the hearts of heroes. Oh, he grappled me, but didn't realize it didn't stop the full attack. It makes me think of Watchmen: "I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me." He realized this was a bad idea and spent his next turn throwing me as far away from him as he could... which provoked an attack of opportunity from me because it was a ranged attack.


Casting Blood Rage.

Needless to say, my Cleric killed some punks.

Scarab Sages

Scavion wrote:

Casting Blood Rage.

Needless to say, my Cleric killed some punks.

My oracle of battle will have Blood Rage in two more levels.

After that, her next goal will be Deadly Juggernaut.


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chaoseffect wrote:
which provoked an attack of opportunity from me because it was a ranged attack.

*blinks*


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"How do you have a +58 Perception? Wait, I don't want to know. Wait, yes I do."

*Explains*

*GM sighs*


most of our party was arrested and the GM wasn't gentle with them. the heal is missing a leg. we are playing S&S so a peg leg is normally cool but she is also a prostitute so it looks bad. so she and the ratfolk alchemist had a crazy idea. Heal is missing a leg and the Alchemist just grew and extra arm. so they tried to attach them rats limb. oh and early in the campaign the party went ashore the heal and the barbarian hired painters to paint the ship blue for sea camouflage.


It's fun when Synth summoners get to change their evolutions when they level up, it's always nice surprising your DM with immunity to the currently predominant energy type the enemies rely on...

Or when the guy who's newly immune to fire is being used as a human shield by the villain, the magus (known for loving fireball) knows the synth is immune to fire, but the villain does not. Figuring the grappled synth is an easier target, rather than firing at the villain who has cover and buffs and such, the magus proudly declares "I cast FIREBALL" the DM smirks and points out my synth is right there too, and then smugly points out his health isn't in the best shape. The magus response? "I know, he's the one I'm targeting."

GM: "So you're going to kill him?" *gesturing at me*
Magus: "No, I'm going to kill HIM" *pointing at the villain mini*
Me: "I smoosh in cozy like with the gropey villain."
GM: *Sigh* You're immune to fire, aren't you?
Me: "I'm immune to fire, but mr handsy isn't is he?"
GM: "...no" *Cue dejected sad DM look.


I said I wanted to play a rogue... But that doesn't count because my rogue was a Bard.

Let's see... I tried to shoot a NPC we were supposed to rescue.


Lemmy wrote:

I said I wanted to play a rogue... But that doesn't count because my rogue was a Bard.

Let's see... I tried to shoot a NPC we were supposed to rescue.

Was the NPC someone that the bad guys needed to sacrifice at a very specific time to summon some sort of elder evil? Because if so my old Call of Cthulhu (really re-skinned Hunter the Reckoning) group adopted that concept as one of our core group beliefs after a while.

"Burn the book, kill the kid, -there was a third but no one can remember-."


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Level 5~6 party. DM ask for a roll to see if there is any random encounter this day. Our warrior rolls resulting in a T-Rex charging to the group. The 3rd time we roll the same encounter in this campaign, previous times DM had changed it for other mobs because he didnt want to TPK the group.
*INIs rolls*
Teeto, my archaeologist, goes first. He swings his sling-staff and scores a crit on the first bullet. We use crits cards, so the T-Rex takes 2 INT damage, and falls down unconscious.
Poker face on DM, and I win a Hero Point because luck.


Did she completely give up on 4e? I am not saying that to start an edition war, just that gming beyond the rules is a great thing and it would be a shame if she didn’t expand that to every system she plays instead of just thinking it's a pf only thing.

She kept hearing about stuff not allowed in 4E and actually plays PFS. She's a decent GM, just wanted to run some more exp people to see what real RP is about. We were really sweet and the non-RPing GMs helped her with mechanics, etc. Of the 5 players at the table, the 'rookie' started with 3.0 in '99, and 2 of us started in the '70s.

And her 4E group failed contact with the start of school.


I had a really crazy Rogue once that did some of the craziest stuff. She had throw anything and managed to disarm a poison trap, save the poisoned needle, tie it to a pickle extractor (A pointed stick basically) and throw it at an enemy and hit it... She also jumped into a bath in full armor with some random guy who we were supposed to help because she was invited to join him (Although I don't think he meant IN the bath).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Last Sunday I was playing Eyes of Ten with my Sumoner.

I'd just sent my eidolon to harass a pair of archers and assasins. The Judge decided that the guy was tough enough to take an AOO from my eidolon so the assasin backed off to knife our cleric in a flank.

GM pretty much figures I'm going to hit and says roll and tell me the damage. I say to him that I'm striking with the claw instead of the bite. I hit give him some damage and the GM says " Fine", but as he continues the move, I then tell him. "And now I get the grab."

One CMB roll and one round of attacks later it was all over for the poor schmuck.

I'd surprised him already that day by purposely starting out the module with my eidolon unsummoned.

Standard Action Summons are such a game changer.


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By destroying half of the city in search of my character's kidnapped daughter. The DM planned and intrigue filled adventure. I think he forgot who my character was. Or thought that his DMPC (my character's father) could handle her in a completely pissed off state.


I suggest pizza and possibly beer (if legal)


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I had a Barbarian who figured out how to use a Loadstone as an offensive weapon. The old-school Loadstone didn't just make you move at half your movement speed, it encumbered you at Medium Encumbrance all the time. That meant that it had to weigh, magically, enough to do so. One visit to a Cleric and a Wizard later, and Hogrif the Bold had a magical pouch and gloves with a permanent Remove Curse effect on them, and the Loadstone had Returning.

It's really funny to see a dragon scoff at a 1lb rock being tossed at them, only to be crushed by the effective weight of a 22-ton boulder.


At our session two days ago my character used Pilfering Hand to nab a big bad's holy symbol which stopped his worst spells and the negative channeling he was blasting us with. Was rather pleased with myself. Made that particular battle much more manageable.


Aleron wrote:
At our session two days ago my character used Pilfering Hand to nab a big bad's holy symbol which stopped his worst spells and the negative channeling he was blasting us with. Was rather pleased with myself. Made that particular battle much more manageable.

I did that once against someone who was supposed to be a serious threat and the DM was disappointed enough that the (un)holy symbol scalded me when it touched my hand because of the eeeeeeveeeeeeeeel. I don't think he liked the tactic.


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So here's a story that happened to me as a DM that it just occurred to me was worth sharing. Happened last Saturday in my game.

The party is helping defend an old fort on a hill with a bunch of trapped dwarves against an undead siege. Like hundreds of undead, so many that they are nearly battering down the gates and the ones on the non-gate sides are literally starting to dog pile themselves up and over the walls. To put this in perspective, the fort sits on top of a 40 foot tall hill and the walls are 20 feet high. So undead stacking themselves 60 feet.

One party member is slowing the dog pile method and the party ripping apart the ones are the gate means the fort is lasting much longer than the necromancer in charge of the attack anticipated. Time for plan B.

Some party members who teleported behind the main assault and were fighting some of the lesser necromancers in charge of the army (Vampires btw), suddenly see some sort of giant metallic contraption gleaming in the moonlight, approaching fast. It is a Battlehulk (3pp, Slumber Tsar), a construct with 40 strength and a battering ram on the front. It is a living tank. Clinging to the top of it are 4 ghouls and a vampire wearing a conductor's hat. The vampire raises one hand and a Wall of Stone ramp is formed (crushing many undead but who cares) to give him and his tank a straight shot up to the heavily damage gate. The one holding out the undead horde. The party has an "oh s++@" moment and I'm nothing but smiles.

Then the PCs blow my mind. One of them acrobatics in front of it and mid leap clicks his Immovable Rod. The thing slams into it, nearly destroys the rod, but only manages to move 10 feet before being stopping against it, desperately trying to continue forward. It's turn ends. And then another player casts Spiked Pit. The tank has a 4 reflex. It fails. It falls. My awesome tank/battering ram being controlled by a vampire in a conductor's hat, the one that was going to escalate the siege into a brutal melee, is now a non-issue. The 4 ghouls get crushed to death under the tank and the vamp reflexes to barely avoid having the several ton machine land on him.

F@+~ing Immovable Rods man.


Some time ago. But that was the last time I REALLY surprised the GM.
We were playing rogue trader (a warhammer 40k game by FFG) and were flying away from some planet to get to a point where we could activate the warp drives when we were hailed by some other vessel. They broadcasted a call for help while powering towards us and away from another spaceship that was firing in the fleeing ship's direction.
Before someone could do something stupid the following ensured.

Me: "It's a trap. They work together to bring the fleeing ship close enough for a boarding action".
GM: "How do you know?"
Me: "Gut feeling."


I got two things:

1) Most recently, we had a barghest suddenly become visible next to my inquisitor while he was checking a room, surprising him and knocking him down to -6 hp with the ol' claw/claw/bite routine. The GM was about to knock over my mini, but I grinned. "Ferocity!" Then, I got a look at the thing w/ Monster Lore and quickly figured out my usual bag of tricks wasn't going to work on it. As the rest of the party debated fleeing or fighting (most leaning toward fleeing), I pondered my options. I realized that no matter what I did, the thing would get another shot at me and probably kill me. So ... I declared, "I'm an inquisitor of Abadar, and I live for this." Swung my sword at the beastie ... natural 19. Rolled to confirm the crit ... and GM offered me a crit card. Thanks to the crit card, the barghest was going to take 8 pts of bleed damage each round. I halfway expected the rest of my group to run away, but they piled in, with the druid's baby elephant leading the way. 9 rounds, several healing spells, and a lot of judgmenting later, the barghest fell.

2) In the campaign I GM, my players surprised the hell out of me last session. They're trying to get into a keep held by hobgoblins. The party's rogue gamely scouted the keep, but he didn't find any secret doors. My players killed a couple patrols outside the keep, then looked it over, toyed with a few ideas and didn't seem to reach consensus. I jokingly suggested, "Well, why don't you just walk up to the guards and say hello?" And ... my players walked up to the guards and said hello. I completely did not expect this, so I improvised off the top of my head with a minigame using the Social Combat cards. One game later, my players were inside the keep and going to see the commander.


I just remembered something I did recently. My character, a human Inquisitor and the party she was with were staying in a barn for the night. My character and another were taking watch when we heard some commotion outside. Not loud, mostly whispering (both of us have HUGE perception checks) so we peak outside and see some shadows including the shape of a wagon, several men and a pair of horses.
They apparently had a prisoner because they were whispering quietly about what to do with him. So the other player says to the GM,

"I speak their language so I'm going to go to the door and pretend to be drunk" this included some pretending to vomit and such. My character is pretty short, so she's just behind him out of sight in the shadows. He talks to the guys for a bit, playing the drunken idiot, when all of a sudden I go
"I cast light on the closest horse's head"

The GM says, "What? You cast light, on its head?" or something to that affect and I say "Yup"
He says, "Okay, suddenly the closest horse's head is lit up. The horse gets spooked and starts to run, not very fast because the wagon and all." rolls some dice "And the two (or three can't remember) guys at in the rear of the party take off running scared out of their minds."
The fighter wakes up at this point and comes out, all but naked, with his Greatsword in his hand. I say "I transfer the light to the greatsword"
At that point a couple more of the party seeing this big human mostly naked holding a rather large lit up sword, take off running. I think we had to kill two of them out of about seven...


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chaoseffect wrote:
Aleron wrote:
At our session two days ago my character used Pilfering Hand to nab a big bad's holy symbol which stopped his worst spells and the negative channeling he was blasting us with. Was rather pleased with myself. Made that particular battle much more manageable.
I did that once against someone who was supposed to be a serious threat and the DM was disappointed enough that the (un)holy symbol scalded me when it touched my hand because of the eeeeeeveeeeeeeeel. I don't think he liked the tactic.

I love Pilfering Hand, ranged legerdemain, and Mad Monkeys for exactly this kind of insanity. The first time I asked, "So ... how is this caster casting his spells?" my GM gave me a really odd look. I asked, "Is she using a spell component pouch?" My GM looked confused, and said, "Yes ... " "Good," I intoned. "Monkeys, after the pouch!!!"

Two sessions later, I asked, "So, how is the giant casting those spells." The GM looked at me. "This one has Eschew Materials!!"

Scarab Sages

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I rolled up a character with an interesting backstory and put time and effort into his name, character, and class/race choice.


chaoseffect wrote:
Aleron wrote:
At our session two days ago my character used Pilfering Hand to nab a big bad's holy symbol which stopped his worst spells and the negative channeling he was blasting us with. Was rather pleased with myself. Made that particular battle much more manageable.
I did that once against someone who was supposed to be a serious threat and the DM was disappointed enough that the (un)holy symbol scalded me when it touched my hand because of the eeeeeeveeeeeeeeel. I don't think he liked the tactic.

While I've yet to see steal in action, I have seen sunder actions typically annoy DMs a bit. I've also heard of a few GMs who have a policy of "You don't use sunder, I won't use sunder." as a sort of gentleman's agreement.


Davor wrote:
I rolled up a character with an interesting backstory and put time and effort into his name, character, and class/race choice.

If a player that never did that would do it, I would be surprised too.


Westphalian_Musketeer wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Aleron wrote:
At our session two days ago my character used Pilfering Hand to nab a big bad's holy symbol which stopped his worst spells and the negative channeling he was blasting us with. Was rather pleased with myself. Made that particular battle much more manageable.
I did that once against someone who was supposed to be a serious threat and the DM was disappointed enough that the (un)holy symbol scalded me when it touched my hand because of the eeeeeeveeeeeeeeel. I don't think he liked the tactic.
While I've yet to see steal in action, I have seen sunder actions typically annoy DMs a bit. I've also heard of a few GMs who have a policy of "You don't use sunder, I won't use sunder." as a sort of gentleman's agreement.

As both player and GM, I'm at the opposite end of things like that. I put Sunder, Disarm, Steal, Pick Pocket, etc., in the same category as spellcasters' debuffs (also known as Save or Suck spells). I also think that smart entities -- whether PC or NPC -- ought to exploit opponents' weaknesses.

I used steal and pickpocketing a lot with an Arcane Trickster I played. To me, this was just an extension of his abilities. He was OK at sticking the pointy end of his rapier in things, but his strength lay more in the creative application of skills, feats, and spells. So while the sorceress and paladin merrily blasted and carved up the bad guys, I usually worked from further back to make the enemies less threatening.

As a GM, I view such things as a way to challenge my players. Not every foe comes in to sunder weapons and steal spell component pouches. But occasionally, my players face an enemy who is smart enough to, for example, take away the wizard's bonded object or stop to wake up the sleep-hexed minion. Another way to think of it is that many game abilities come with a weakness. The witch can slumber opponents, but those opponents can be awakened. A wizard gets benefits from a bonded item, but he has to make concentration checks if somebody takes it away from him. Occasionally, I think, smart enemies should take advantage of those weaknesses.


My DM is new. Some of our players refuse to fight, and some of them average about 10 damage per hit. My orc barbarian drank a potion of blood rage and then got a crit with a furious great axe. It ended the encounter because the rest of the enemies ran.


Westphalian_Musketeer wrote:


While I've yet to see steal in action, I have seen sunder actions typically annoy DMs a bit. I've also heard of a few GMs who have a policy of "You don't use sunder, I won't use sunder." as a sort of gentleman's agreement.

I have yet to use sunder as a DM, but for the most part I consider it fair game, especially as most things that are going for a sunder won't want to permanently destroy the item they hit for the same reason PCs don't; it would be breaking their loot.


While our group was stopped at a local tavern our DM thought a bit of DM scry and fry might be in order. Shortly afterwards he was reading the description of Detect Scrying. I made the opposed caster level check, viewed the scryer and then teleported to the scryer's camp location just outside of town. The group overpowered the caster and a couple of other foes, cleaned up the camp and waited for the rest of their group to return from searching for us in town and then pummeled them into submission.

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