Watersinger Bard Archetype - Questions about Waterstrike


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Some of these questions were asked in the linked thread, but they didn't leave a definitive answer: Watersinger archetype questions

For reference:

Waterstrike:
At 3rd level, the watersinger can spend 1 round of bardic performance to command any water he is currently manipulating with his watersong performance to lash out and strike an opponent with a slam attack. The watersinger uses his base attack bonus and Charisma bonus to make this attack, and deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage plus his Charisma bonus.

The attack can originate from any square of water the bard is manipulating, and the water can get a flanking bonus or help a combatant get one, but cannot make attacks of opportunity. The water can make multiple attacks per round if your base attack bonus allows you to do so. At 10th level, the water's slam damage increases to 1d8 points and the water gains a reach of 10 feet. At 15th level, the water's slam damage increases to 2d6 points. At 20th level, the water's slam damage increases to 2d8 points.

This performance replaces inspire competence.

Now for my questions:
1. Does attacking an enemy with Waterstrike use the bard's standard action, or does it behave like a summoned creature, where it goes off your initiative and uses its own standard action?
2. Can the Watersinger take the feats Improved Natural Weapon (Slam) or Weapon Focus (Slam) to increase the damage or the attack bonus for his Waterstrike ability?
3. Assuming the Watersinger has the Outflank teamwork feat, does the Waterstrike ability also gain Outflank, and thus gain the +4 attack bonus when flanking an enemy with an ally that also has the Outflank feat?


1. I do not think it takes any extra actions as you have to already be using your Bardic performance to control the water via Watersong, which has already taken your standard action & a free action each round to continue it, you expend one extra round for each hit.

2. Those feats indicate you are using the slam, which for all intents & purposes, you are not. I do not think you'd qualify for either as the character has no natural Slam attacks to qualify with.

3. I think for the purposes of Flanking the manipulated water could almost (but not exactly) be thought of as its own creature (akin to a Water Elemental) your feats would not be used for it.


Thank you Dolanar.


FWIW I think 1 and 2 are co-dependent.

If it acts as a summoned creature your feats can't affect it anymore than it could another summoned creature.
If it requires a standard action then your combat feats can affect it (pretty sure ether way Imp. natural attack isn't an option)

Anyway
1)

Quote:
The watersinger uses his base attack bonus and Charisma bonus to make this attack, and deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage plus his Charisma bonus.

this little snippet would put me in the camp of this being a standard action. Seems expensive to have to use another round of performance and a standard action, so I'd like to be shown to be wrong, but that's how it reads to me.

2)No

3) You would need a specific ability akin to the hunter's ability to give it's AC it's teamwork feats, or an inquisitors solo teamwork ability to gain any benefit from teamwork feats in the way you describe. You simply don't have that here, so that won't work.


If it was a standard action it would say that it is a standard action. The rest is vague, though. I think I'd lean on the side of no for both 2 and 3 but I can't say with any certainty.


I actually only inferred no further action was needed after reading the rules on Bardic Performance, & I didn't recall reading anything about extra abilities needing extra actions unless they were specifically called out. If there was an Extra action needed contrary to the rules of Bardic Performance, I would expect it to be spelled out in the new ability.

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