Does an Alchemist drinking an extract provoke an Attack of opportunity?


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It seems ambiguous to me. At first glance, the answer appears to be yes, since the class ability says that extracts are drunk like potions. Drinking a potion provokes. However, unlike drinking a potion, an alchemist can get an extract out and drink it in one standard action, or if he has the infusion discovery, can get it out and use it on an ally as a standard action. I've determined this by reading the various threads on the subject that a search of this forum has turned up.

From what I can see, there's been a lot of assuming that extracts share the property of potions that drinking them provokes. And I would assume this is the case for a non-alchemist drinking an extract, since they don't have the class feature Alchemy in which alchemists get to draw and drink extracts as a single standard action.

Yet, it seems unclear. Does anyone have a firm indication that it does provoke, other than the inference that it's like a potion and provokes because drinking a potion does?


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I'm going to bed, so I'll keep this short for now.

If extracts don't function like potions, then what do they function as? Unless you have a way of "drinking defensively", it seems clear to me that drinking one, would provoke.


I'm curious to opinions on this too actually. I don't have an alchemist, but I was looking into making one. A PFS GM, during the last game I played, had his BBEG Alchemist make a concentration check to use his extract defensively as though casting a spell. I questioned this and the GM (he has an alchemist character of his own that he plays at times, I think) and the person playing a PC alchemist at the table both said it was valid. I was unsure, but let it slide for the sake of time, ease, lack of personal knowledge, and Rule 0. This thread has brought that back up for me, so please, any input people have would be great, because I'd love to know for future games just how this is supposed to work.

Thanks!


Using an extract isn't casting a spell. It isn't subject to spell concentration checks due to inclement weather, entangles, getting hit for damage, etc.

This is bad because you can't cast defensively if you aren't casting a spell. If you "quaff" an extract, like quaffing a potion, you are going to provoke an AOO.

This is good because as long as you survive the incoming beating from the AOO, the extract is going to take effect.


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Well, the whole point of provoking an AoO is that you're doing something that gets in the way of fighting and protecting yourself. If you look at it that way, it isn't the magic of the potion or extract, it's the action; and the action is the same for both.


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The rules are slightly contradictory on this. Alchemy is an SU ability which does not provoke, but references potions which do. Then there are the FAQs on Alchemists that say that imbibing an extract is not the same thing as drinking a potion and that the whole sequence of drawing, empowering, and drinking an extract is a single standard action.

All this leads me to conclude that drinking an extract does not provoke as it is an SU action.

Grand Lodge

thorin001 wrote:

The rules are slightly contradictory on this. Alchemy is an SU ability which does not provoke, but references potions which do. Then there are the FAQs on Alchemists that say that imbibing an extract is not the same thing as drinking a potion and that the whole sequence of drawing, empowering, and drinking an extract is a single standard action.

All this leads me to conclude that drinking an extract does not provoke as it is an SU action.

Unless there's more information out there than what's in this post, this sounds like the answer as SU abilities don't provoke unless they say they do. Not even a concentration checked is needed (though I would've never applied a concentration check to drinking anyways).


Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion

The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.

Shadow Lodge

RumpinRufus wrote:
Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.

Will this mean you cannot "drink defensively then"? cause it would be a huge pain


ElementalXX wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.
Will this mean you cannot "drink defensively then"? cause it would be a huge pain

You absolutely can't. No more than you can drink a potion defensively.

There's no mention of it, no mechanism for it, no Concentration roll to make, no reason to think you can.

Shadow Lodge

Well it seems that alchemist so much needs some sort of teleportation


RumpinRufus wrote:
Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.

But it is not exactly as drinking a potion or you would be able to use the Accelerated Drinker feat with extracts, which you cannot. FAQ


I think it's a quirk or the class, but not a fatal one. MY alchemist has gotten into the habit of carrying Snapleaf for emergencies. Also note that you can imbibe in areas of silence, unlike normal spell casters, so there is a trade off.


thorin001 wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.
But it is not exactly as drinking a potion or you would be able to use the Accelerated Drinker feat with extracts, which you cannot. FAQ

Accelerated Drinker applies specifically to potions. An extract is "cast" by drinking it as if it were a potion (thereby provoking,) but that does not make it a potion.


RumpinRufus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.
But it is not exactly as drinking a potion or you would be able to use the Accelerated Drinker feat with extracts, which you cannot. FAQ
Accelerated Drinker applies specifically to potions. An extract is "cast" by drinking it as if it were a potion (thereby provoking,) but that does not make it a potion.

By that logic then it is not a potion for provoking either. You cannot have it count as a potion for drinking purposes for one effect but not another.


thorin001 wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.
But it is not exactly as drinking a potion or you would be able to use the Accelerated Drinker feat with extracts, which you cannot. FAQ
Accelerated Drinker applies specifically to potions. An extract is "cast" by drinking it as if it were a potion (thereby provoking,) but that does not make it a potion.
By that logic then it is not a potion for provoking either. You cannot have it count as a potion for drinking purposes for one effect but not another.

You fail to understand - it doesn't provoke because "it is a potion", because it isn't. It provokes because the action of drinking it is done as if imbibing a potion.

The extract is not a potion. But the action of drinking it is done as if you were drinking a potion.


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I would expect every GM to feel entitled to an Attack of Opportunity against an Alchemist who attempts to imbibe an Extract, Potion, or Mutagen during melee.

However, I don't think being damaged by that attack will disrupt your drinking the way it would a Wizard casting a spell. I think the opportunistic attacker would have to either Disarm you of the Extract while you drink it or Sunder it in your hand. Those wouldn't be unlikely, though: even a rather uneducated opponent would figure you were drinking a potion, and they wouldn't want to find out what your potion does.

I guess Disarm might not the right maneuver since the Extract isn't a weapon. They might have to Steal it. If it were a Bomb in your hand, then maybe that would require Disarm. Hm.

There are 3 ways to drink an Extract in melee without provoking an Attack of Opportunity.

A Volatile Vaporizer can turn your Infusion into Vapor that everyone in a radius will inhale and enjoy the benefits of. A GM might allow you to have your Tumor Familiar to take the pellet and go right inside your lungs and break it open there, which could allow you keep the Infusion to yourself. I reckon it even money whether any GM would allow that to work. The other problem with the VV is that it is a single use item that costs 2000gp.

If you take 3 levels in Monk and become a Drunken Master, "the act of drinking is a Standard Action that does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity." I can imagine a GM trying to rule against that applying to Potions or Extracts.

There is the Feat Potion Glutton from Inner Sea Gods which lets you drink any potable as a Swift Action. The prerequisite is that you have to worship Uragothoa, though.

There is also the Sipping Jacket, which lets you drink Potions as a Swift Action, but since it doesn't specifically allow Extracts or Mutagens, any PFS DM might disallow it. If this were for a homespun campaign, you can just vet the idea with your referee in advance, and plan accordingly. You can expect him to be consistent with himself, which means you have the right to be grumpy with him if he isn't.


I thought of another way to use Extracts in melee without provoking AoO's. I overlooked the obvious.

Use magic Wands instead!


I believe the RAI is that all "spell casting" classes use the same rules for "Spell casting". Thus the alchemist is casting a spell even though he is doing something different just like a sorcerer, wizard, witch & cleric are all doing different things but the result is a "spell".

The drinking is really just fluff otherwise as two move actions shouldn't an alchemist be able to quaff two extracts? The alchemist isn't really drinking a potion he is "casting" an extract.

But that is just my take on it.

Dark Archive

Mike Franke wrote:

I believe the RAI is that all "spell casting" classes use the same rules for "Spell casting". Thus the alchemist is casting a spell even though he is doing something different just like a sorcerer, wizard, witch & cleric are all doing different things but the result is a "spell".

The drinking is really just fluff otherwise as two move actions shouldn't an alchemist be able to quaff two extracts? The alchemist isn't really drinking a potion he is "casting" an extract.

But that is just my take on it.

Well first you have to remember this basic rule.

Alchemist ARE NOT spellcasters, none of those rules apply to them. They don't cast spells so they can't cast defensively. They are simply using a self-powered magical item that they create themselves. It's one of the basic confusions of the class.


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DA RULES wrote:

Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).

...

Physical Description: A typical potion or oil consists of 1 ounce of liquid held in a ceramic or glass vial fitted with a tight stopper. The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high. The vial has Armor Class 13, 1 hit point, hardness 1, and a break DC of 12.

Identifying Potions: In addition to the standard methods of identification, PCs can sample from each container they find to attempt to determine the nature of the liquid inside with a Perception check. The DC of this check is equal to 15 + the spell level of the potion (although this DC might be higher for rare or unusual potions).

Activation: Drinking a potion or applying an oil requires no special skill. The user merely removes the stopper and swallows the potion or smears on the oil. The following rules govern potion and oil use.

Since Extracts are ingested "like potions," it sounds like the total intent is this:

Alchemist Ed (yes, I went there) goes to drink an Extract. He thus provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

His opponent has 2 options:

1) His opponent can make an attack against Ed, but even if he is hit and he's not knocked unconscious, he continues to drink and gets the Extract's effect.

2) His opponent can attack the Extract, which will negate the Extract and render it useless, but Ed will be okay and his opponent will have burnt up an Attack of Opportunity only to stop a cast spell, and not deal damage to his opponent.

This seems like a bad thing, until you consider that a typical real Caster can suffer damage AND have their spell be fizzled by not making a concentration check.

An Alchemist, however, forces their opponent to make a deal with the devil, as it were - choose to either fizzle an Extract but let the Alchemist go unscathed, or hurt the Alchemist but let him cast the spell unimpeded. They also require no Somatic or Verbal components, just like Potions, so things like Silence spells will not stop an Extract.

The trade-off, however, is because Extracts are neither Alcohol nor Potions, they cannot be speed-drinker'ed via a lv1 Drunken Brute, or Faster Drinker, nor are they Spells, so they cannot use Metamagic Feats like Quicken Spell or Still Spell in order to bypass the Attacks of Opportunities.

In short, Extracts ALWAYS provoke Attacks of Opportunities; however, you also have several benefits in downing Extracts that you do not get with Spells, so the pros even out with the cons.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Extracts "behave like spells in potion form." They are “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion.

It seems absolutely clear to me that any feat, magic item or class ability that effected drinking a potion would also effect drinking an extract.

Equally, drinking an extract is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The only difference that I know of is that an extract can be retrieved from alchemist supplies and drank as part of a single standard action.

It is unclear if an infusion extract given to someone else could also be retrieved and drank in a single action, personally I would rule that the retrieval and drinking as a standard action is part of the alchemist, not part of the infusion.


RumpinRufus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Alchemy wrote:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
The act of drinking is explicitly done "as if imbibing a potion", which means it provokes.
But it is not exactly as drinking a potion or you would be able to use the Accelerated Drinker feat with extracts, which you cannot. FAQ
Accelerated Drinker applies specifically to potions. An extract is "cast" by drinking it as if it were a potion (thereby provoking,) but that does not make it a potion.
By that logic then it is not a potion for provoking either. You cannot have it count as a potion for drinking purposes for one effect but not another.

You fail to understand - it doesn't provoke because "it is a potion", because it isn't. It provokes because the action of drinking it is done as if imbibing a potion.

The extract is not a potion. But the action of drinking it is done as if you were drinking a potion.

But it is different than drinking a potion, the FAQ says so.

Without the FAQ I would agree with you. Currently RAW using an extract is not the same as drinking a potion, and only the drink potion action provokes. Drinking other stuff does not by RAW.

Right now the common interpretation is extracts count as potions for detrimental effects and do not count as potions for anything beneficial. Worst of both worlds does not seem like standard policy.


Dave Justus wrote:
It seems absolutely clear to me that any feat, magic item or class ability that effected drinking a potion would also effect drinking an extract.

Unfortunately, there are FAQs which state explicitly that this is 100% wrong. Fast Drinker, Raging Drunk, and Accelerated Drinker do not work with Extracts, because Extracts are a third "special liquid" that are neither Alcohol nor Potions.

Alchemist Class

Alchemist FAQ

Because Alchemists are not spellcasters, that means that Extracts, while they BEHAVE like spells, are not actually spells; therefore, anything which effects "spells" and "spell-like abilities" are not applicable - they ARE, however, Supernatural, and thus can be affected by things like Dispel Magic, etc.

The Alchemist only gains Brew Potion as a Bonus Feat, and RAW an Alchemist cannot take Brew Potion thereafter as a normal Feat (if they take an Archetype which removes Brew Potion) because they have no Caster Levels. Even if they gain Master Craftsman they cannot take Brew Potion, since the only applicable feats to be gained through Master Craftsman is Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magical Arms & Armor, at least RAW.


Seems like the general consensus is "It probably provokes, but the rules are ambiguous."

Anyone care to join me in clicking the FAQ button on my original post?


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You have my sword

Grand Lodge

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And my bow


Well, what do we have....
"An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion"
"It is a standard action to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb"
"alchemists are not spellcasters"
From Potions: Using a potion... provokes attacks of opportunity
From FAQ: Accelerated Drinking does not effect extracts.
From FAQ: Fast Bomb Discovery allows for use of feats such as rapid shot.

From these, as we cannot benefit from either accelerated drinker or quicken spell as extracts are not a potion and alchemist is not a spellcaster. Seeing as it is not a potion, not affected as potion, and drinking an extract is cast as if imbibing a potion. I would say that there is no AOO. Extracts are not potions and do not gain advantages as being one. Then not being a potion it does not gain the disadvantages of being one. Thats my take on it.

The Exchange

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Seems like the general consensus is "It probably provokes, but the rules are ambiguous."

Anyone care to join me in clicking the FAQ button on my original post?

There's no need for an FAQ. Drinking an extract provokes. I get that you'd rather it didn't or that you could drink defensively. But you can't. Thats just how it is. It's one of the weaknesses of the alchemist and you accept it along with being able to hit touch AC and do splash damage.

Also I need to address something from your first post. You can't "Use" an infusion on an ally. Infusions are treated as potions. So you pass them out to allies, you don't use them on them. Unless you have poisoners gloves, touch injection or a medilance.

Shadow Lodge

I think a FAQ would be good. I'd rule it provokes (but can't be interrupted) as well, but I can also see the other side of it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

A Drunken Brute Barbarian should be able to drink an Extract, without provoking.

Drunken Brute wrote:
Raging Drunk (Ex): While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition to the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does. This ability replaces fast movement.

Dark Archive

blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Drunken Brute Barbarian should be able to drink an Extract, without provoking.

Drunken Brute wrote:
Raging Drunk (Ex): While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition to the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does. This ability replaces fast movement.

Why would you think that? An extract is not a potion, it's used as one but is explicitly called out as an extract not a potion or alcohol and Raging drunk only works with those 2 choices.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Actually, I think you are right.

Well, there is always Infusion + Poisoner's Gloves + touching yourself.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Drunken Brute Barbarian should be able to drink an Extract, without provoking.

Drunken Brute wrote:
Raging Drunk (Ex): While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition to the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does. This ability replaces fast movement.
Why would you think that? An extract is not a potion, it's used as one but is explicitly called out as an extract not a potion or alcohol and Raging drunk only works with those 2 choices.

But isn't that the point? how much IS it like a potion? You either treat it "as if imbibing a potion" or you don't. So far, from the FAQ's it looks like it's not. If extract is it's own thing, then does it say it provokes?

It's a double standard, catch 22. It's like a potion so it must provoke. But it's not a potion so these abilities don't work...

Dark Archive

graystone wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Drunken Brute Barbarian should be able to drink an Extract, without provoking.

Drunken Brute wrote:
Raging Drunk (Ex): While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition to the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does. This ability replaces fast movement.
Why would you think that? An extract is not a potion, it's used as one but is explicitly called out as an extract not a potion or alcohol and Raging drunk only works with those 2 choices.

But isn't that the point? how much IS it like a potion? You either treat it "as if imbibing a potion" or you don't. So far, from the FAQ's it looks like it's not. If extract is it's own thing, then does it say it provokes?

It's a double standard, catch 22. It's like a potion so it must provoke. But it's not a potion so these abilities don't work...

No, It's just like using a reach weapon against something with cover where it says use the rules for ranged attacks. It doesn't stop the reach weapon from actually being a melee weapon it just says use this part of the rules for resolution instead of the normal rules.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, how do we know it counts as a potion, works like a potion, and when it doesn't?


Do I really need to post this again?

Alchemist FAQ

Fast Drinker is functionally identical to the Drunken Brute's Rage Drinker class feature and to the Accelerated Drinker trait.

Since 1 doesn't work because "extracts aren't potions" then 2 and 3 don't.

We've gotten the ruling - Extracts Aren't Potions. They're similar, but different.

I do, however, agree that having an FAQ over the exact mechanics of AoO's - whether they can be targeted in the same way a potion can, whether they require a Concentration check like spells do, or if they guarantee the Alchemist gets their effect at the cost of an opponent taking a pot-shot at them.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, how do we know it counts as a potion, works like a potion, and when it doesn't?

It NEVER counts as a potion - it is ingested LIKE a potion. A Potion and an Extract are two entirely different things that happen to be swallowed.

This is like how a firearm is fired LIKE a crossbow, but it's not a crossbow.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
graystone wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Drunken Brute Barbarian should be able to drink an Extract, without provoking.

Drunken Brute wrote:
Raging Drunk (Ex): While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition to the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does. This ability replaces fast movement.
Why would you think that? An extract is not a potion, it's used as one but is explicitly called out as an extract not a potion or alcohol and Raging drunk only works with those 2 choices.

But isn't that the point? how much IS it like a potion? You either treat it "as if imbibing a potion" or you don't. So far, from the FAQ's it looks like it's not. If extract is it's own thing, then does it say it provokes?

It's a double standard, catch 22. It's like a potion so it must provoke. But it's not a potion so these abilities don't work...

No, It's just like using a reach weapon against something with cover where it says use the rules for ranged attacks. It doesn't stop the reach weapon from actually being a melee weapon it just says use this part of the rules for resolution instead of the normal rules.

the difference is that you missing an actual rule in the extract. In your example it says "When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks." It's clear where and when it's treated as a ranged attack. There is no "when checking for AoO, treat extracts as potions."

All I see is "as if imbibing a potion", and every FAQ that clairifies that statement is that it actually doesn't count as a potion.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
chbgraphicarts wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, how do we know it counts as a potion, works like a potion, and when it doesn't?

It NEVER counts as a potion - it is ingested LIKE a potion. A Potion and an Extract are two entirely different things that happen to be swallowed.

This is like how a firearm is fired LIKE a crossbow, but it's not a crossbow.

Those ARE some GREAT points.

So, it doesn't provoke, like drinking a potion?


graystone wrote:
All I see is "as if imbibing a potion", and every FAQ that clairifies that statement is that it actually doesn't count as a potion.

The most glaring question would be if the Extract itself can be targeted for an attack during an AoO the same way a Potion can. While an Extract IS uncontestedly NOT a potion, the container of the extract itself is generally presumed to be a small vial.

We know for certain that an Alchemist needs to DRINK the Extract, and that it's done like a Potion. The exact mechanics of "Drinking" the Extract, however, are vague. If an Extract uses a 1in x 2in vial like a Potion, it makes sense for the opponent to be able to attack and break the vial, causing the Extract to fizzle.

However, there is no codified, official method for how Extracts are stored; the best we have to go on is the Iconic Alchemist who has tons of vials all over him, which we can only assume to be extracts.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
chbgraphicarts wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, how do we know it counts as a potion, works like a potion, and when it doesn't?

It NEVER counts as a potion - it is ingested LIKE a potion. A Potion and an Extract are two entirely different things that happen to be swallowed.

This is like how a firearm is fired LIKE a crossbow, but it's not a crossbow.

Those ARE some GREAT points.

So, it doesn't provoke, like drinking a potion?

I'm either calling "troll", or you're just horrendously misinterpreting.

Drinking Alcohol provokes an attack of opportunity.

Drinking a Potion provokes an attack of opportunity.

Drinking an Extract provokes an attack of opportunity.

Fast Drinker allows you to drink Alcohol as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Accelerated Drinker allows you to drink a Potion as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Raging Drunk allows you to drink either a Potion or Alcohol as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Nothing in the game allows you to drink an Extract as a Swift Action, and thus drinking an extract always provokes Attacks of Opportunity.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Drunken Brute Barbarian should be able to drink an Extract, without provoking.

Drunken Brute wrote:
Raging Drunk (Ex): While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition to the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does. This ability replaces fast movement.
Why would you think that? An extract is not a potion, it's used as one but is explicitly called out as an extract not a potion or alcohol and Raging drunk only works with those 2 choices.

Just mix your extracts with liquor. After all, alcohol is a solution.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
chbgraphicarts wrote:

I'm either calling "troll", or you're just horrendously misinterpreting.

Drinking Alcohol provokes an attack of opportunity.

Drinking a Potion provokes an attack of opportunity.

Drinking an Extract provokes an attack of opportunity.

Fast Drinker allows you to drink Alcohol as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Accelerated Drinker allows you to drink a Potion as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Raging Drunk allows you to drink either a Potion or Alcohol as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Nothing in the game allows you to drink an Extract as a Swift Action, and thus drinking an extract always provokes Attacks of Opportunity.

Don't be jerk, and start name calling. Not cool.

I know Accelerated Drinker doesn't work with Extracts.

I noted that after a second reading, Raging Drunk didn't work with Extracts.

Now, the last part, about provoking, is not listed, anywhere.

The only way anyone has come up with a reason why it would, is to compare it to Potion.

See the confusion now?


chbgraphicarts wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
chbgraphicarts wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, how do we know it counts as a potion, works like a potion, and when it doesn't?

It NEVER counts as a potion - it is ingested LIKE a potion. A Potion and an Extract are two entirely different things that happen to be swallowed.

This is like how a firearm is fired LIKE a crossbow, but it's not a crossbow.

Those ARE some GREAT points.

So, it doesn't provoke, like drinking a potion?

I'm either calling "troll", or you're just horrendously misinterpreting.

Drinking Alcohol provokes an attack of opportunity.

Drinking a Potion provokes an attack of opportunity.

Drinking an Extract provokes an attack of opportunity.

Fast Drinker allows you to drink Alcohol as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Accelerated Drinker allows you to drink a Potion as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Raging Drunk allows you to drink either a Potion or Alcohol as a Swift Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Nothing in the game allows you to drink an Extract as a Swift Action, and thus drinking an extract always provokes Attacks of Opportunity.

Is there something that says drinking Alcohol provokes? I know there are several abilities that use Alcohol that don't provoke, but I can't remember a general rule that it provokes.

I also don't recall extracts being called out either.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
See the confusion now?

Not really.

It's ingested like a Potion, which provokes an Attack of Opportunity; it functions just like a Spell, and Casting provokes an Attack of Opportunity. It's generally accepted that Extracts, as they are a mosh-up between casting spells and drinking potions, should and does provoke AoOs.

The Raging Drunk also states:

"While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

This lends further credence to the idea that drinking a liquid of ANY kind in melee will provoke an Attacks of Opportunity.

So if Alcohol and Potions provoke Attacks of Opportunity, and casting Spells provokes Attacks of opportunity, basically everyone accepts that Extracts must provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
chbgraphicarts wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
See the confusion now?

Not really.

It's ingested like a Potion, which provokes an Attack of Opportunity; it functions just like a Spell, and Casting provokes an Attack of Opportunity. It's generally accepted that Extracts, as they are a mosh-up between casting spells and drinking potions, should and does provoke AoOs.

The Raging Drunk also states:

"While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

This lends further credence to the idea that drinking a liquid of ANY kind in melee will provoke an Attacks of Opportunity.

So if Alcohol and Potions provoke Attacks of Opportunity, and casting Spells provokes Attacks of opportunity, basically everyone accepts that Extracts must provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

I already noted, and will note again, that I realized the Raging Drunk ability doesn't work with Extracts.

Still, even though you straight up decided to say that anyone who compared Extracts to potions, as stupid, or a troll, your reasoning for them provoking, is to compare them to potions.

Remember, the Alchemy(which is the class feature containing Extracts) is a Supernatural ability.

Supernatural abilities normally don't provoke, unless noted so, in their description.


graystone wrote:

Is there something that says drinking Alcohol provokes? I know there are several abilities that use Alcohol that don't provoke, but I can't remember a general rule that it provokes.

I also don't recall extracts being called out either.

Besides the Raging Drunk feature of the Drunken Brawler, from 3.5 there's the Drunken Master class Variant from the Complete Warrior:

"Drink Like a Demon (Ex): A drunken master's body handles alcohol differently from other people's. He can drink a large tankard of ale, a bottle of wine, or a corresponding amount of stronger alcohol as a move action. Every bottle or tankard of alcohol he consumes during combat reduces his Wisdom and Intelligence by 2 points each, but increases his Strength or Constitution (character's choice) by 2 points. A drunken master may benefit from a number of drinks equal to his class level. The duration of both the penalty and the bonus is a number of rounds equal to the character's drunken master level + 3."

"For Medicinal Purposes (Sp): At 8th level, a drunken master gains the ability to convert a single alcoholic drink he has ingested into a single potion of cure moderate wounds, as if he had just drunk a dose of the potion. To use this ability, the character must be under the effect of an alcoholic drink (see Drink Like a Demon, above). When he converts one drink of alcohol into one dose of the potion, his ability scores change (+2 to Intelligence and Wisdom, —2 to Strength or Constitution) as if the duration of the alcohol's effect had expired. This ability can be used up to three times per day. It is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity."

---

There is also Paizo's own Drunken Master:

"At 3rd level, a drunken master can drink a tankard of ale or strong alcohol and gain one temporary ki point. The act of drinking is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The monk can have a maximum number of drunken ki points equal to 1 plus one additional point for every two levels thereafter (5th, 7th, and so on). The monk can gain this temporary ki even before he gains a ki pool at 4th level. These drunken ki points last for 1 hour or until spent, whichever is shorter. As long as he has at least 1 drunken ki point, the monk can spend 1 ki point as a swift action to move 5 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity.

This ability replaces still mind."

---

The fact that there are several abilities which feel the need to say that they are non-Free, non-Swift Actions which don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity gives the idea that, yes, drinking of any kind provokes Attacks of Opportunity.

Even in the rules for Attacks of Opportunities, they say:

"Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.

Moving
Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.

Performing a Distracting Act
Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity."

It's just generally accepted that trying to drink while not getting killed is "distracting" and thus provokes Attacks of Opportunity - at least if it's done as anymore more than a Swift Action.

"Drinking" is never specifically mentioned, no, but neither is tying your shoes, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a DM that wouldn't count "tying your shoes" as "Distracting" and thus provoke an AoO.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Supernatural abilities normally don't provoke, unless noted so, in their description.

I'd like to see examples of that; generally, any ability of any kind which requires either a Standard or Move Action to perform will say whether it provokes an Attack of Opportunity or not.

Constant effects of any manner don't, obviously, and Free & Swift Actions explicitly state in the rules that they don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Because Extracts are Standard Actions and involve drinking, it's always been a given that they provoke AoOs for the previously mentioned rules.

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