Greetings all,
I am putting together a Magus/Rogue BBEG for my group, and I came across something I need community input on.
As we all know, Magus can deliver touch spells through their weapon, no problem. But then I came across this:
At 10th level, an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the same type as the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage.
So my question is this: If a Magus/Arcane Trickster lands a sneak attack on a flat-footed target, then does that mean they do the sneak attack damage on the attack and does sneak attack damage again on the channeled spell?
So a Rogue 3 / Magus 4 / AT 10 would sneak attack for +7D6 and then spellstrike shocking grasp for another +7d6?
That seems incredibly powerful to me, but RAW that's what I take it to mean; does anyone know if this has been errata'd or anything?
Thanks!
Actually, I think it would actually work just that way....neat!
My guide points this out and it is potentially powerful.
However getting the right set up to have the spells, be able to hit and not be too squishy is an incredible balancing act.
Lots of potential... very difficult to get the mix right.
That sounds really powerful, but as we're talking about a 16th level NPC here, CR15, it's not that sick..
All it would take would be a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier to drop 14d6 off that damage.
Also, remember that the SA on the spell is the same type...
Hey. Does that mean someone able to cast CLW as an arcane spell caster with this ability could sneak attack an undead with a CLW and get an extra +Xd6 Sneak attack on the CLW? nice..
That sounds really powerful, but as we're talking about a 16th level NPC here, CR15, it's not that sick..
All it would take would be a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier to drop 14d6 off that damage.
Also, remember that the SA on the spell is the same type...
Hey. Does that mean someone able to cast CLW as an arcane spell caster with this ability could sneak attack an undead with a CLW and get an extra +Xd6 Sneak attack on the CLW? nice..
But not on healing someone for damage because healing isn't damage.
Just one thing, you need +3d6 Sneak attack to qualify for AT, when Rogue 2 only has 1d6, but otherwise I love this, and it makes one of my NPCs (Catfolk Rogue/Sorc/AT) more dangerous when she's using her claws to attack (i forget where, but i remember reading somewhere that you can deliver touch attacks while using natural weapons for what basically amounts to the Magus' spellstrike.)
Yes, you only need +2d6 to qualify, but you do still need Rogue 3.
I edited the original post to correct it, thanks. The build is ultimately going to be Rogue 3/ Blade Adept Arcanist 7 / Arcane Trickster 10 but since mechanically it's identical to a Magus I figured I'd keep it simple.That sounds really powerful, but as we're talking about a 16th level NPC here, CR15, it's not that sick..
All it would take would be a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier to drop 14d6 off that damage.
Also, remember that the SA on the spell is the same type...
Yes, but once you add in how ever hard they hit on the attack, with whatever other bonuses they have; shock, etc. And they still have the rest of their iterative attacks. We all know the stories of the 20D6 shocking grasp attacks, so 1d8 + 7d6 + 20d6 + 7d6 is a pretty big hit. Especially since Arcane Tricksters happen to have another ability Impromptu Sneak Attack (Ex) that can force a target to be flat footed. And if you happen to crit, it's through the roof!
Hey. Does that mean someone able to cast CLW as an arcane spell caster with this ability could sneak attack an undead with a CLW and get an extra +Xd6 Sneak attack on the CLW? nice..
As DM I'd rule that would in fact work. Since the ability says "any spell that deals damage", not a damaging spell. A small but significant difference.
And the Jingasa only applies if they're not using the head slot for something else (though fortification enchantments will still possibly screw that over), although yeah, a conditional 14d6 SA damage is not impressive for a CR 15, but hey, if OP likes it I vote go for it!
And at my table we love rolling dice, so 1d8+34d6 is beautiful and the stuff we dream of.
2d8 + 54d6 on a crit is even better. I like to think we're pretty big power gamers, but I don't want to see the table where a hit like that isn't impressive!
If you guys love rolling a bucket full of d6, you should play Shadowrun. ;-)
But yeah, nothing like picking up you little box of 36d6 and dumping the whole lot on the table..
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If you guys love rolling a bucket full of d6, you should play Shadowrun. ;-)
But yeah, nothing like picking up you little box of 36d6 and dumping the whole lot on the table..
Shadowrun, ah memories. Headaches, and memories.
2d8 + 54d6 on a crit is even better.
yikes!
I played Legacy of the Stonelords at 10-11 last night, and one of the other players had a Sorcerer with a tricked out Battering Blast, and I thought that was big time nasty...
I'm actually thinking Eldritch Scion with Slayers levels. it will take a while longer to get the SA dice needed for the cross to AT, but the character its self will have many more possibilities and tricks to use. plus the BAB will be higher, so hitting will be easier.
[Edit] and while im at it, the need to pick up the magus arcana Precient Attack is a nessesary evil if you are going for this build because once you can force a SA using impromtue sneak attack, you can then force the rest of your attacks that round to also become sneak attacks, resulting in even higher damage! this requires 6 levels in magus, however, so this build might well end up being a level 20+ build. still a fun idea though...
*Note, 15d6 is the shocking grasp max, or 30d6 on an intensified empowered crit. So only +44d6, which is, of course, utterly unremarkable. ;)
there ARE however ways to make that damage remarkable, such as maximizing an already intensified empowered SG, tagging on SA for another 7D6, then tagging on the weapon and weapon SA for another 7D6 + weapon damage dice + damage from things like power attack and what not. that's getting pretty ridiculous for something that targets FF AC...
I honestly think Greensting slayer should qualify. Yes, you need to spend arcane points on it, but you still do get SA die.
1 Snakebite striker instead of 2 Rogue levels as well to get it online faster.
I'm not sure that would fit the concept I'm after (Bladebound, and possibly Bladebound/Kensai) But you are absolutely right: AT only requires: Special: Sneak attack +2d6, so mechanically it would work.
That means Magus 4/AT 10/Magus 6 (or something else entirely) becomes a possibility. Well played, LoneKnave; well played.
You're right. The original plan was for a Blade Adept Arcanist, which has a particularly useful Arcane Exploit called
Eldritch Blade:
A blade adept with this exploit uses her caster level instead of her class level for the purpose of advancing her bonded sword's powers.
I took my eye off the ball with the Kensai stuff once I realized that archetype works with a Bladebound Magus (instead of Arcanist) but it wouldn't be worth giving up the sword.
Got to put some more thought into this now, but thanks again.
Bladebound doesn't play nice with AT (as it doesn't advance your blade). If you want a blade that advances with your AT levels, you'll have to go Blade Adept arcanist. Which you already do.
That said, getting SA soonest as possible, with Snakebite Striker 1/Rogue1 Arcanist 2/AT10/Arcanist8 seems to be a real nice build.
You need level 2 spells, so unless your DM allows early entry hijinxs (I, being DM do not) it would have to be
Snakebite Striker 1/Rogue 1 /Blade adept Arcanist 5/AT10/Arcanist 3 still seems to be a really nice build, yep.