Adjusting the acrobatics, break DCs, and combat maneuver rules to emulate anime


Homebrew and House Rules


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Personally, I happen to enjoy anime. I'd like to make some adjustments to the Pathfinder system to bring in some elements I particularly like. Something I've been going on about for a while is encouraging a greater degree of mobility for martial characters. I was thinking of borrowing the iterative attack system from Trailblazer and making vital strike, shot on the run, and spring attack normal parts of the combat system rather than feats. This is something I've been planning for, like, three years now. By the time I'm done, I'll basically have a system that's halfway between being Pathfinder and being it's own D20 based system, in that Pathfinder is the chassis of the system, but enough is different that it can't really be referred to as Pathfinder with house rules.

Explanation aside, I got back into anime recently, and I've been seeing some things that I totally want in my system. I actually like the way a lot of anime martial characters have ridiculous jumping abilities. Like, 20 feet up into the air? No problem. Leap almost all the way across a chapel? Sure. Jump on top of buildings during a chase? Okay. I also like it when people get shoved back absurd distances, or a really big enemy flings people through walls. Want martials to be able to do this. Granted, it's all ridiculous, but dragons can fly without casting spells, so it's not like the laws of physics are being strictly adhered to.

I suspect that, rules wise, the big things that have to be done is to drastically drop jump DCs so that a lot of massive jumps don;t actually require a check at all, dropping strength checks for breaking walls and doors, and (this is the hard one) figuring out a way to incorporate chucking people around into the combat maneuver rules and into certain spells. Damage for falls and impacts with the environment needs to be even less of a threat, as well. Any ideas as to what a good sweet spot for check DCs might be here? Exactly how I could incorporate the rag doll effects? What effect does this all have on caster/martial disparity? And, most importantly, what character options/spells will changes like this conflict with or make obsolete? Which classes get more powerful, and which get their abilities overshadowed? I'm looking, but I don't have everything memorized, and I'm still absorbing the Advanced Class Guide materiel.


Actually... Just raise the stats... All characters should have an insane amount of HP and DR period. Extremely high dex should also affect your movement speed. Ridiculously high strengths will handle the break DC's just fine. The reason anime worlds seem like their made of paper is to exemplify how strong the characters are. As for the ground breaking and walls breaking just make the objects take a proportional amount of damage that the character takes when it hits them and breaking them could be pretty easy.

Also you may want to incorporate some kind of blur affect for characters that can't keep up with other characters speed. Make a skill that's half perception and half reflex to actually be able to see and track fast moving opponents otherwise you take penalties to fighting them.


like, if using a single vital strike attack, by which each 5 the attack beats the AC, the target must move 5 feet?


Also I just watched Feitan fight so I must say this. Make a scaling feat for certain abilities you want to emulate. Like a fast moving character using pillars and walls and other obstacles to quickly change direction while moving at extremely fast speeds possibly allowing him multiple spring attacks in one round.


rainzax wrote:
like, if using a single vital strike attack, by which each 5 the attack beats the AC, the target must move 5 feet?

Make the hungry ghost monk's scaling punishing kick a staple for all characters.

I made a Sanji Character that used to so he could kick colossal creatures 20 feat with no problems. Anti-Manner Kick Course. I love anime... So I've spent plenty of time thinking up ways to emulate characters in pathfinder


Hmm. It seems somewhat common that a martial can block spells with a weapon or shield. Perhaps allow shield bonuses to AC against ray spells, and make the AC bonus from defended actions a shield bonus if it isn't already?


Ray shield is a thing. Make it available more easily. That would basically be the theme of this revamp. Things that could already be done with difficulty in pathfinder should be simple for an anime character.

Also. Another thing about spells. Many just dodge. Successful reflex saves should be able to shunt a character in a direction of their choosing a certain distance based on their speed. Also. You should be able to perform some kind of feint or bluff check to trick an enemy into thinking you got hit by the thing you easily dodged. Ala Hiei or Killua seemingly being stabbed when in fact they had no trouble being somewhere else well before(attoseconds really) the attack hit.

Silver Crusade

It may go beyond the scope of the OP, but perhaps consider making bladed dash a scaling x/day ability for martial characters? :D


Yes.


Mikaze wrote:
It may go beyond the scope of the OP, but perhaps consider making bladed dash a scaling x/day ability for martial characters? :D

Maybe a class feature or feat, but I do like the idea of some non-spellcasters to be able to pull that off.


Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Also. Another thing about spells. Many just dodge. Successful reflex saves should be able to shunt a character in a direction of their choosing a certain distance based on their speed. Also. You should be able to perform some kind of feint or bluff check to trick an enemy into thinking you got hit by the thing you easily dodged. Ala Hiei or Killua seemingly being stabbed when in fact they had no trouble being somewhere else well before(attoseconds really) the attack hit.

Hmm. Make dodge bonuses easier to obtain?

I see no problem with allowing Bluff checks to pretend to be injured.


Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Also I just watched Feitan fight so I must say this. Make a scaling feat for certain abilities you want to emulate. Like a fast moving character using pillars and walls and other obstacles to quickly change direction while moving at extremely fast speeds possibly allowing him multiple spring attacks in one round.

Yes.

Scaling feats in general should be more of a thing in Pathfinder.


Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Actually... Just raise the stats... All characters should have an insane amount of HP and DR period. Extremely high dex should also affect your movement speed. Ridiculously high strengths will handle the break DC's just fine. The reason anime worlds seem like their made of paper is to exemplify how strong the characters are. As for the ground breaking and walls breaking just make the objects take a proportional amount of damage that the character takes when it hits them and breaking them could be pretty easy.

I want to be careful not to increase the system calculus too much, though, and higher average strength means I have to adjust monster stats upwards, and there may be unforseen butterflies, too. It feels like it would be easier to modify the specific mechanics in question rather than one of the base stats.


The After Image.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Actually... Just raise the stats... All characters should have an insane amount of HP and DR period. Extremely high dex should also affect your movement speed. Ridiculously high strengths will handle the break DC's just fine. The reason anime worlds seem like their made of paper is to exemplify how strong the characters are. As for the ground breaking and walls breaking just make the objects take a proportional amount of damage that the character takes when it hits them and breaking them could be pretty easy.
I want to be careful not to increase the system calculus too much, though, and higher average strength means I have to adjust monster stats upwards, and there may be unforseen butterflies, too. It feels like it would be easier to modify the specific mechanics in question rather than one of the base stats.

Oh well ok then. I was under the assumption monsters would get similar boosts but that makes sense and it would be complicated.


Chaotic Fighter wrote:
The After Image.

Definitely something a Swashbuckler, Rogue, Monk, or light armor Fighter should be able to learn.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Chaotic Fighter wrote:
The After Image.
Definitely something a Swashbuckler, Rogue, Monk, or light armor Fighter should be able to learn.

Isn't there a feat or ability somewhere that gives the character the effects of Blur for 1 round when they move 10ft or more?

What about one that gave you Mirror Image?

Dark Archive

Doing away with falling damage and changing the formula might be helpful to you.

You could take the 5e route, and let you move up to your speed while interspersing a full attack if desired.


Also, for flavor reasons I didn't really want heavy armor to be a thing in my campaign setting (plate just doesn't work with the image I have in my head for my world). Should I scale armor AC bonuses upwards to compensate (perhaps shuffling around armor categories, so that the system has heavy armor, but it is stuff like chainmail and breastplate, and medium armor is some of the heavier light armors), with the end effect that the AC bonus for wearing the best armor is the same, the armors are just lighter, or do something else?

I do think unarmored Fighters should have some way of being practical. Very common anime trope, the unarmored sword expert is.


If you want to dump armor for your d20, 7seas d20 had a system for it based on BAB for scaling. I'll see if I can find my books over the next couple days. Grocery and gaming day for me, so not a lot is getting done here outside of those and prep.

Edit: link to Unarmored Defense Proficiency (Beginner).

Should help you decide if it's what you need or not. There are three tiers, if I remember right.

Dark Archive

Conan d20 also had a scaling AC setup, and armor provided DR instead of AC. It worked quite nicely.


Darkholme wrote:
Conan d20 also had a scaling AC setup, and armor provided DR instead of AC. It worked quite nicely.

Great game too. The only thing I didn't really care for was the massive damage threshold set at 20 points (iirc). It was too lethal. I think I house ruled it to 50 points OR 50% of the individual's total maximum hit points (whichever was greater). I got real tired of a lot of my big bads getting 1-2 shot, if you couldn't tell. =)

Dark Archive

Haha, yeah, fair enough.

Conan d20 is pretty great, I agree. Definitely one of the better d20 variants.


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You should check out mythic rules

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
I actually like the way a lot of anime martial characters have ridiculous jumping abilities. Like, 20 feet up into the air? No problem. Leap almost all the way across a chapel? Sure. Jump on top of buildings during a chase?

Aerial Assault:

You can charge at creatures in the air, or leap across obstacles as part of a charge. When making a charge attack, you can expend one use of mythic power to include a single Acrobatics check made to jump, adding 10 feet per tier to the height or distance you jump. You take no falling damage from the height gained as part of this leap. If your attack hits, you may deal an amount of additional damage equal to the falling damage appropriate for the height you reached. Alternatively, you may replace your melee attack from this charge with a grapple check. If you successfully grapple a creature, you bring it to the ground with you at the end of your jump, and it takes an appropriate amount of falling damage for the height it was at when you grappled it.
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Okay. I also like it when people get shoved back absurd distances

Blowback:

As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make one melee or ranged attack at your full base attack bonus. If the attack hits, your foe is also knocked directly away from you a distance equal to 10 feet per tier. If the foe strikes a solid object before reaching this distance, it takes 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet it couldn't travel.

If it strikes another creature, both it and the creature it strikes take half this damage.

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
dropping strength checks for breaking walls and doors

Display of Strength:

As a free action, you can expend one use of mythic power to attempt a feat of Strength, gaining a +20 circumstance bonus on one Strength-based skill check or Strength ability check. Alternatively, you can use this ability to apply a +20 circumstance bonus to your Strength score for a number of hours equal to your mythic tier for the purpose of determining your carrying capacity.

Juggernaut:

Little can stand in your way when you charge forth into battle—even solid doors and walls don't stand a chance. While charging, you may attempt a free Strength check to break through a single door or wall in your path. You can expend one use of mythic power while performing this charge to gain a +10 circumstance bonus on your Strength check to break the object. If you destroy the object, you can continue your charge as though it were never there. If you fail to destroy the object, your movement ends in the square before that object. Note that destroying integral parts of a structure may trigger a collapse (treat as a cave-in) at the GM's discretion. This ability can be combined with other path abilities and effects that modify charge attacks, such as the burst through path ability. You can select this ability up to three times. Each additional time you select it, you may break through one more wall or door during your charge, and the circumstance bonus on your Strength check increases by 10 (to a maximum of a +30 circumstance bonus).

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Hmm. It seems somewhat common that a martial can block spells with a weapon or shield. Perhaps allow shield bonuses to AC against ray spells, and make the AC bonus from defended actions a shield bonus if it isn't already?

Parry Spell:

As an immediate action, you can expend one use of mythic power to block a spell targeting you or an ally adjacent to you. The spell must be a ray, a single-target spell, or a spell that creates an effect targeting one creature (such as acid arrow), and the level of the spell's spell slot must be equal to or lower than your tier. Make an attack roll as if making an attack of opportunity. If the result of the attack roll is greater than the spell's attack roll or save DC, the spell has no effect on the intended target (though other targets from the same spell, such as multiple targets of scorching ray, are affected normally). A spell that has neither a DC nor an attack roll (such as magic missile) can't be affected by this ability.

You must declare using spell parry after the spellcaster's target is announced, but before the target's saving throw or attack roll is made

What do you think about this? This is exactly what your talking about.

You could always look here to check all the books out.


And that's why I love mythic so much.


Da'ath wrote:

If you want to dump armor for your d20, 7seas d20 had a system for it based on BAB for scaling. I'll see if I can find my books over the next couple days. Grocery and gaming day for me, so not a lot is getting done here outside of those and prep.

Edit: link to Unarmored Defense Proficiency (Beginner).

Should help you decide if it's what you need or not. There are three tiers, if I remember right.

in 3.5 there was a set of feats that gave you 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and 100% your class levels in armor class when not wearing armor. I forget the name but it was in a 3rd party AEG book called "feats". Completely broken in 3.5 but maybe not so much for what you are going for.


I'll take a look through my copy of Mythic Adventures. I hadn't thought to use it, but it should be thematically appropriate to give all PCs tiers.

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