Dazed and Flat-footed


Rules Questions


This came up in a pfs session I ran earlier, and I'm curious if my thoughts are correct on how this interacts.

We started combat against a nasty spellcaster. I won initiative, with the enemy going directly after me. While he was flat-footed I hit him with a Dazing spell, and he failed his will save. Creature is dazed for 2 rounds. Creature's turn comes up and he is dazed.

Dazed Condition: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

Flat-footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation.

According to my interpretation, this enemy would continue to be flat-footed until he took his first action after being dazed. Is this correct? It didn't end up mattering because it died before acting but It may come up in the future.


That seems to be correct, yes. Flat-Footed condition is only removed by an action, Dazed prevents you from taking that action.


Nasty! You just pointed out a new synergy between my wizard and a rogue friend.


I believe this technically works, but only if the opponent is flat-footed due to not having acted in combat yet and you manage to daze them before it is their turn.


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If your turn comes up and you delay then you also have not taken an action, but you would not be flat footed. The RAI is that your turn in the initiative order has not come up yet, but RAW that combo could work.

Expect table variation.


Nope. the Flat-footed condition wears off when your initiative comes up, not when you actually take an action.

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

You still get your turn, even if you can't do anything with it.


I prefer Wraithstrike's and Zhayne's opinion, I'm just not sure if it's the case or not.

I have seen some discussion about Wraithstrike's point about delaying is not an action, but that chance to act removes being flat-footed and so forth...

Still, that's a bit different from being unable to act. So the question really becomes, are you flat-footed until you act, or is it really only flat footed until your first turn in initiative order, regardless of whether you're capable of acting during you're turn. Since a dazed creature can take no action, but doesn't take a penalty to AC I think the creature can probably adequately defend themselves and end the flat-footed condition.

I'm honestly not very certain one way or the other on this.


Zhayne I can see where you could be correct. I was quoting from the glossary of conditions which has

Flat-Footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation.

And I see you quoted the section under combat which says:

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

Both say the same thing, one just clarifies further I think. Also you could read "before you have had a chance to act" to include if you are dazed. You had a chance to act, you just couldn't because you were dazed.

Scarab Sages

I think it would follow the expanded Daze description under the spell...

DESCRIPTION
This spell clouds the mind of a humanoid creature with 4 or fewer Hit Dice so that it takes no actions. Humanoids of 5 or more HD are not affected. A dazed subject is not stunned, so attackers get no special advantage against it. After a creature has been dazed by this spell, it is immune to the effects of this spell for 1 minute.

Dazed Condition: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

Although not by RAW, I think the intent of the condition is that attackers get no special benefit.

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