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Namely, an entire mechanic?
Alignment: A mysterious avenger must be of a good alignment, and must be dedicated to the protection of the good and the powerless under her care. If she ceases to be good or betrays the trust of those she was sworn to protect, she loses her secret identity and greater charmed life class features. She can regain them if she atones for her violations by some means that the GM sees fit (possibly by way of the atonement spell if the mysterious avenger is especially religious).
What does this secret identity do for me? Why do I need to maintain it? How does losing it work? Can I suddenly not don my costume, suddenly be unable to claim to be Zorro? Does everyone magically know who I am, but forget once I've repented? If I lose my secret identity, say I'm captured and exposed to the city, do I lose Greater Charmed Life? Can I lose my secret Identity via the aforementioned mundane method?
Secret Identity: At 3rd level, a mysterious avenger's force of personality and dedication to her cause give her the ability to keep her true identity secret, even from magical prying. She gains a +4 bonus on Disguise checks in a single disguise of her choice, typically her avenger persona. Once this disguise has been chosen, it can't be changed. She also gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against divination effect. At 11th level, she becomes immune to all scrying effects and other magical effects used in attempts to uncover her secret identity.
Why would I want to do this? I could wear a full face mask for 1 Silver and Batman my voice and get +99 to my persona disguise. This loops back on my previous questions of why the secret identity even matters, why I should care about maintaining it, why I should bother with the 1d3 + 10 or whatever minutes it takes to put on a disguise. Why I would bother with not being able to to travel with my party during the day. "Well, those five always hang out together, I hear that swashbuckler fellow is quite the combatant. But when the group is gallivanting about slaying foes, the swashbuckler fellow is replaced by...a swashbuckler fellow in a mask...my god..."
I was originally thinking Avengers getting Finesse at lvl 2 was just an editing error, from back when swashbucklers got finesse at level 2, but now I'm thinking that it is in fact correct, and Avengers were supposed to get some sort of Secret Identity mechanic in its place at level one. At least, I hope that's the case since it's a hell of a lot more interesting than an arbitrary alignment restriction and some useless secret identity fluff that literally any other class could do except for maybe certain classes with arbitrary alignment restrictions.
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You have bolded the wrong part:
Secret Identity: At 3rd level, a mysterious avenger's force of personality and dedication to her cause give her the ability to keep her true identity secret, even from magical prying. She gains a +4 bonus on Disguise checks in a single disguise of her choice, typically her avenger persona. Once this disguise has been chosen, it can't be changed. She also gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against divination effect. At 11th level, she becomes immune to all scrying effects and other magical effects used in attempts to uncover her secret identity.
A blanket +4 save against divinations isn't bad, and the 11th level ability is even better, as most divination effects count as an attempt to discover the secret identity.
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You have bolded the wrong part:
Secret Identity: At 3rd level, a mysterious avenger's force of personality and dedication to her cause give her the ability to keep her true identity secret, even from magical prying. She gains a +4 bonus on Disguise checks in a single disguise of her choice, typically her avenger persona. Once this disguise has been chosen, it can't be changed. She also gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against divination effect. At 11th level, she becomes immune to all scrying effects and other magical effects used in attempts to uncover her secret identity.
A blanket +4 save against divinations isn't bad, and the 11th level ability is even better, as most divination effects count as an attempt to discover the secret identity.
Unless they think the suit makes the man, they're not going to search for "Zorro's true identity", they're going to search for "Zorro, I don't give a damn who he really is" because in reality you wouldn't give a damn who he really is unless you though his clothes are what makes him powerful and to have any chance to beat him you have to confront him when he's naked. Unless of course taking off the disguise magically removes any connection between you and Zorro for the magic to track. That would be useful and it would also make no sense. The +4 against divination has nothing to do with the secret identity. I do like the archetype, but too much of it doesn't make sense. You have fluff...that seems to either do nothing or negatively impose itself on you VIA blocking your Greater Charmed Life. Your scrying immunity relies on your adversary to make a very disney-esque "SHOW ME HIS TRUE IDENTITY" demand and it's silly. They could just check back from time to time, Zorro can't always wear a mask, and he stands out when he does. That also raises the question as to whether you lose the bonuses when you're out of costume or your adversary knows who you are.
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Right but if you don't know who Zorro is you cannot use divination to find him. Zorro would be an invalid target for divination spells as he doesn't exist. It makes finding him magically difficult unless you can name him.
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Right but if you don't know who Zorro is you cannot use divination to find him. Zorro would be an invalid target for divination spells as he doesn't exist. It makes finding him magically difficult unless you can name him.
Wrong. You do not magically stop being Zorro when you take the mask off.
Damn it , we're off topic already. This isn't about The latter half of Secret Identity.
TLDR: There are no bonuses and no penalties for maintaining or losing your secret identity. It is a mechanic that does NOTHING. This is odd because Paizo is Hardcore Mechanics-over-Fluff, all day, every day. Does any other archetype have a mechanic that does literally nothing?
I say mechanic, I suppose it's fluff masquerading as a mechanical feature.
The Mysterious Avenger archetype is there to support the masked man trope of serial fiction (Zorro, as you point out; also Batman, the Shadow, the Lone Ranger, etc.)
A secret identity goes hand in hand with that archetype; it is not strictly speaking a mechanical entity, but a roleplaying one. In this circumstance, the mechanics exist to provide some benefit to the roleplay aspect of the archetype. If you don't find any particular mechanical benefit for the secret identity, then clearly this particular archetype is not for you. Ignore it, don't use it. Paizo isn't always about "Mechanics Over Fluff, all day, every day."
(Alternatively, if you want to find some kind of mechanics for a secret identity, use the rules for Reputation and Fame from Ultimate Campaign. Specifically, the Alter Egos, Aliases, and Secret Identities section towards the bottom of that page of the PRD.)
Also, note that the portion you bolded in the OP mentions that if the MA "ceases to be good or betrays the trust of those she was sworn to protect..." she loses the Secret Identity and Greater Charmed Life class features. It doesn't say she loses her secret identity, but the benefit that the MA archetype provides that goes along with it (the bonuses). Hence, if they perform some kind of redemption, she regains those class features.
The class feature mechanics exist as a benefit to the secret identity (because really, anyone can put on a mask).
Wrong. You do not magically stop being Zorro when you take the mask off.
Just to be a Jerk - Billy Batson ABSOLUTELY stops being Captain Marvel when he says Shazam!
Back on topic: Doesn't almost every Divination spell that scrys or spies on subjects rely on you at least knowing the name/identity of your target? AND They almost all allow for a Save?
Just look at Scry:
Scrying
...
Saving Throw: Will Negates.
Lex Luthor knows Superman; Lex doesn't know Superman is Clark, erego, Lex doesn't/can't know Superman Intimately, so he already gets a reduced ability to Scry if he's using magic (Met the Subject: +0). Superman gets a +4 vs. Lex's attempt (which, with no visual reference available, is at a +0 modifier to the Save DC).
If Lex tries to uncover Superman's secret identity (which he doesn't even think Superman has one, post-Crisis, but that's a whole other nerd tirade), Superman, because he's well past lv11, is immune to any Scry attempts to discover he's really Clark.
I fail to see, then, how getting an immediately +4 vs ALL Divination affects is "no bonuses and no penalties for maintaining or losing your secret identity."
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Wrong. You do not magically stop being Zorro when you take the mask off.Just to be a Jerk - Billy Batson ABSOLUTELY stops being Captain Marvel when he says Shazam!
Yeah I covered that contingency with the 'clothes make the man' statement. For the most part the Mask is as much part of the person as the person is part of the Mask. I maintain that taking the clothes off and changing the name does not magically unmake you that person unless, as you pointed out, it in fact MAGICALLY does. The rest of your post, this is about the secret identity itself and how it does nothing, not the last half of Secret Identity.
Also, note that the portion you bolded in the OP mentions that if the MA "ceases to be good or betrays the trust of those she was sworn to protect..." she loses the Secret Identity and Greater Charmed Life class features. It doesn't say she loses her secret identity, but the benefit that the MA archetype provides that goes along with it (the bonuses). Hence, if they perform some kind of redemption, she regains those class features.
The class feature mechanics exist as a benefit to the secret identity (because really, anyone can put on a mask).
Then we are in agreement, it does nothing, which was my point. Anyone can put on a mask, we don't need Paizo to remind us of that. You lose class mechanics for breaking arbitrary alignment restrictions, it has nothing to do with your secret identity so why is it CALLED secret identity? The entire world could know your secret identity and it would have zero effect on you mechanically. It. Should. Do. SOMETHING. The costume is hugely important to Zorro or Batman, it should be important to the Mysterious Avenger as well. In no way do the class features have anything mechanical to do with your secret identity. You have no reason to protect it, hell no reason to use it in the first place. I like the archetype, I plan on playing one when I can find a nice city-centric campaign, I know it'll be hard keeping the Irresponsible Playboy and Batman separate while not limiting the group to only operating when Batman can come out and play and... there's no real reason to do so. You should lose something if your identity is found out, just like Zorro would.
I don't know if you can tell yet but my problem is it's an archetype whos fluff is based around maintaining one costume, one persona, and it gives you zero reason to do so. Many movies and comic books and books have those tense scenes where the corrupt sheriff is inches from discovering the irresponsible playboy is indeed Hero Man and Hero Man has to scramble to throw off the scent and...there's no reason to do that if you're a Mysterious Avenger. Just stab Corrupt Sheriff in the face.
Sure, a GM could have the bad guys go after your family and friends or something if your identity is found out, but if he does that for you he'd have to do that for the entire party. Then everyone would have to wear a mask. Suddenly you've got the g@* d+&n Justice League running around Sandpoint.
Then we are in agreement, it does nothing, which was my point. Anyone can put on a mask, we don't need Paizo to remind us of that. You lose class mechanics for breaking arbitrary alignment restrictions, it has nothing to do with your secret identity so why is it CALLED secret identity?
I'm not really agreeing with you. Look at it this way: you're taking the archetype in order to play a character who- as the description says- "...keeps her identity hidden in order to fight for those who cannot fight for themselves."
This archetype is for people who want to have their PC adopt a secret identity and do feats of derring-do while hidden under a mask.
As a benefit, they gain the benefits of the Secret Identity class feature to assist them. The bonuses to keep that identity secret.
They can now go about slapping on a domino mask and clashing with the ne'er-do-wells and scoundrels that are running this town into the ground for their own gain by night, while keeping up their playboy identity by day, confident they will not be found out.
If you stop being a crusader for justice (ie, your alignment changes), or you betray those you trust, you lose those benefits, which means it is harder for you to maintain that secret identity than before, which could put you or your loved ones in dire danger.
This archetype is pretty well geared towards a certain style of game and roleplay; it's not something most players are likely to use in, say, a dungeoncrawl campaign. Heck, I'd argue that it's pretty much not really geared towards group gameplay.
Not all benefits and mechanics are geared towards all styles of play, and some of them are geared more towards supporting certain styles of gaming and roleplay. This is an archetype that falls into the latter category.
Then we are in agreement, it does nothing, which was my point.
(insert obvious Inigo Montoya quote)
"She gains a +4 bonus on Disguise checks in a single disguise of her choice, typically her avenger persona."
"She also gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against divination effect."
Those are effects. Effects do something. Something is not nothing.
The first part is only partially tied to the Secret Identity, and doesn't necessarily have to be their hero persona. It says TYPICALLY, but doesn't say it MUST be. I look at this like Bruce Wayne having Batman (which completely hides his identity due to the cowl), but also Matches Malone (which this ability mimics perfectly).
The second part isn't dependent on you being in your hero persona at all. You just always get a +4 vs Divination effects, which I already pointed out almost ALWAYS have a Save chance.
Again - it does, in fact, do something. It's not a GREAT something, but stop saying they do "nothing" when that's categorically wrong.