Rerolling


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


1) Jirelle can reroll any die on any check (assuming she has the swashbuckling trait - for the sake of this post let's say she always does) and Meliski can allow a character at his location to reroll a die on a failed check. However, both of these say "must take the second result;" i would initially assume that this means they can't go with what they had before they rerolled it. So, can Jirelle reroll a die twice (three rolls total) using Meliski's and her own power? Or can it not be rolled the third time "because you must keep the second result"?

2) Jirelle's Duelist role also has a power that lets her roll a d4 and add it to the result if any of her dice come up an 8 or greater. I assume this is meant to work with her reroll ability and allow her to roll a poorly rolled die to try and get an 8 so she can add the d4?

3) The Duelist ability to add a d4 on an 8 or higher - can Jirelle reroll that, or is it not part of the check (since it's added to the result)?


First instincts

1) With both powers, up to 2 dice may be rerolled once, keep new result.

2) Sounds correct.

3) Only if she hadn't used her power to that point; can only use a power or card once per check I believe.

I'm sure Hawk will give a nearly official answer soon ;p


Ironvein wrote:
Only if she hadn't used her power to that point; can only use a power or card once per check I believe.

I'd agree that she definitely couldn't if she had already rerolled something. But I'm not sure that the d4 is actually considered part of the check, per se - it could perhaps be rolled at a time outside of the window of opportunity in which her reroll ability operates in.

Ironvein wrote:
I'm sure Hawk will give a nearly official answer soon ;p

Haha, he has an even better grasp of the rules than I, but I do believe that these are questions only the game devs can answer as they are new interactions with no precedent. Not even the mighty Hawkman ( ;P ) is necessarily equipped to handle them.

XD


Hmm, now that I think on it a bit... what about weapons with reroll options in the mix (spears/darts); 'must keep second result' gets muddled in concert with those powers...

Looking at the INTENT of the 'second result' is that you may not 'go back' on the reroll if the roll ends up being worse.

So probably (back to question one), you can choose to reroll one die with one power, if still bad use another power to get a third, and in the case of the weapon with reroll; do it a third time (in any order)... you just keep using powers until you get the roll you want or run out of powers (powers can only be used once per check).

'must keep second result' seems to be bad wording... maybe 'continue to resolve with the new result' would be better?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Yeah, I think you'll need the devs for this one. But my guesses are:

1. Second result means second result, so you can't stack the two powers on the same die.

2. I think so too. She can reroll to get an 8+ first then if she does she can add the d4.

3. I feel like it isn't really part of the check. It is just a number she adds to the result.


Orbis Orboros wrote:


I'd agree that she definitely couldn't if she had already rerolled something. But I'm not sure that the d4 is actually considered part of the check, per se - it could perhaps be rolled at a time outside of the window of opportunity in which her reroll ability operates in.

A die is a die, shouldn't matter if it comes as a result of a power. Powers can be resolved in any order as long as they apply to the immediate situation.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

Yeah, I think you'll need the devs for this one. But my guesses are:

1. Second result means second result, so you can't stack the two powers on the same die.

2. I think so too. She can reroll to get an 8+ first then if she does she can add the d4.

3. I feel like it isn't really part of the check. It is just a number she adds to the result.

These are exactly my thoughts, were I to issue a ruling on the spot.

Great minds, Hawk, great minds.

As usual. :D

Ironvein wrote:
A die is a die, shouldn't matter if it comes as a result of a power. Powers can be resolved in any order as long as they apply to the immediate situation.

It's not a matter of where it comes from that concerns me, but how it's added. It doesn't say "roll an additional d4," it says to "roll 1d4 and add it to the result."

To try and reword what the problem may be, let me rephrase it two ways:

1) Add 1d4 to the check

2) Roll 1d4. Whatever the resulting number is, this power adds amount that to the check.

In number 1 you'd be able to reroll for sure, but you wouldn't in number 2. It could be interpreted either way.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Orbis Orboros wrote:

1) Jirelle can reroll any die on any check (assuming she has the swashbuckling trait - for the sake of this post let's say she always does) and Meliski can allow a character at his location to reroll a die on a failed check. However, both of these say "must take the second result;" i would initially assume that this means they can't go with what they had before they rerolled it. So, can Jirelle reroll a die twice (three rolls total) using Meliski's and her own power? Or can it not be rolled the third time "because you must keep the second result"?

2) Jirelle's Duelist role also has a power that lets her roll a d4 and add it to the result if any of her dice come up an 8 or greater. I assume this is meant to work with her reroll ability and allow her to roll a poorly rolled die to try and get an 8 so she can add the d4?

3) The Duelist ability to add a d4 on an 8 or higher - can Jirelle reroll that, or is it not part of the check (since it's added to the result)?

1) When we say "second result," we mean it. So you can use one power or the other, but not both.

2) Sure (so long as that power hasn't already been used on that check, of course).

3) If she hasn't rerolled a die on the check already, she can reroll that one if she wants. (It is part of the check; additional dice count as additional modifiers under the "Attempt the Roll" step.)


Vic Wertz wrote:


1) When we say "second result," we mean it. So you can use one power or the other, but not both.

So does that mean, in case of a spear weapon, that she can only use her power or the spear's power and not both?


Vic Wertz wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:

1) Jirelle can reroll any die on any check (assuming she has the swashbuckling trait - for the sake of this post let's say she always does) and Meliski can allow a character at his location to reroll a die on a failed check. However, both of these say "must take the second result;" i would initially assume that this means they can't go with what they had before they rerolled it. So, can Jirelle reroll a die twice (three rolls total) using Meliski's and her own power? Or can it not be rolled the third time "because you must keep the second result"?

2) Jirelle's Duelist role also has a power that lets her roll a d4 and add it to the result if any of her dice come up an 8 or greater. I assume this is meant to work with her reroll ability and allow her to roll a poorly rolled die to try and get an 8 so she can add the d4?

3) The Duelist ability to add a d4 on an 8 or higher - can Jirelle reroll that, or is it not part of the check (since it's added to the result)?

1) When we say "second result," we mean it. So you can use one power or the other, but not both.

2) Sure (so long as that power hasn't already been used on that check, of course).

3) If she hasn't rerolled a die on the check already, she can reroll that one if she wants. (It is part of the check; additional dice count as additional modifiers under the "Attempt the Roll" step.)

Thanks for the quick reply!

One quick clarification on question #1 - Let's say I roll a d10 and a d6. Can I reroll the d10 for Jirelle's power and the d6 for Meliski's? Put succinctly, does the "you must keep the second result" apply to the die or to the check?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Your first reroll gives you your second result.


All right. Don't take Meliski and Jirelle at the same time. Got it.

XD


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks for this - I would have interpreted "take the second result" as applying to the individual dice roll, not the total set of dice!


A followup question: how do these character powers interact with monsters (or other cards) that force a reroll on a successful attack (like Crab Swarm)?

A) 'must take the second result' = Cannot reroll, and cannot trumps can. AKA, the same ruling Vic just made about multiple character powers. Whichever reroll is triggered first happens, but no further rerolls are possible.

B) By the Golden Rule, character cards trump monster cards. Thus, if a monster forces you to reroll, you can still use your character power, but if you have already used a character power, the monster reroll cannot override your power's 'use the second result'.

In either case, is there anything preventing Jirelle (whose reroll power doesn't require failing a check) from rerolling a single die of an already-good-enough check to prevent the monster reroll from happening?


philosorapt0r wrote:

A followup question: how do these character powers interact with monsters (or other cards) that force a reroll on a successful attack (like Crab Swarm)?

A) 'must take the second result' = Cannot reroll, and cannot trumps can. AKA, the same ruling Vic just made about multiple character powers. Whichever reroll is triggered first happens, but no further rerolls are possible.

B) By the Golden Rule, character cards trump monster cards. Thus, if a monster forces you to reroll, you can still use your character power, but if you have already used a character power, the monster reroll cannot override your power's 'use the second result'.

In either case, is there anything preventing Jirelle (whose reroll power doesn't require failing a check) from rerolling a single die of an already-good-enough check to prevent the monster reroll from happening?

The second result is what you must use to determine if you are successful, then, if a bane says you must re-roll a successful check, you re-roll if your second result was successful. You may not use any cards or powers you used previously, because it's a re-roll and not a brand new check.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I would say you can use her power even when a monster forces you to reroll. But only if you haven't used it before the monster forced you to reroll. So...

Good
Roll check.
Use power to reroll a die.
Monster makes you reroll.
*Can't reroll a die again.

Also Good
Roll check.
Monster makes you reroll.
Use power to reroll a die.

Not Good
Roll check.
Use power to reroll a die.
Monster makes you reroll.
Use power to reroll a die.

And yes, she can use it on a successful check or a failed check. But rerolling a successful check might turn it into a failed check.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

I would say you can use her power

And yes, she can use it on a successful check or a failed check. But rerolling a successful check might turn it into a failed check.

Quite true, though there's not really any downside when otherwise you'll be forced to reroll *all* your dice anyway. And if you can somehow add a source of d4s (a fighter/ranger/bard ally, or perhaps most likely with Jirelle a 2d4 weapon like a rapier), there will often be a successful roll with a die that can be rerolled without any risk at all.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
philosorapt0r wrote:
Hawkmoon269 wrote:

I would say you can use her power

And yes, she can use it on a successful check or a failed check. But rerolling a successful check might turn it into a failed check.

Quite true, though there's not really any downside when otherwise you'll be forced to reroll *all* your dice anyway. And if you can somehow add a source of d4s (a fighter/ranger/bard ally, or perhaps most likely with Jirelle a 2d4 weapon like a rapier), there will often be a successful roll with a die that can be rerolled without any risk at all.

Really any sized die could be a 1 or 2 but the other dice are large enough where you made the check.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Card Game / Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion / Rerolling All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion