I have made what I believe is currently the most comprehensive Gunslinger Guide. I try to cover topics like Gear, Race, Multiclassing, Deeds, Feats, Traits, and more.
One problem I see right off the bat, and is unfortunately common in a lot of Gunslinger builds, is completely dumping strength. To stay at a light load with a strength of 7 you need to be carrying 23 or fewer pounds in equipment, which you reach pretty quickly with one or more firearms, ammunition, armor and a few pieces of gear.
Yeah, bags of holding/handy haversacks and some equipment help with this, but it doesn't eliminate it entirely.
However, your mileage, houserules and play style may very.
I disagree with a few things in your guide, and I'm confused by a few others. You have "knowledge" in general as blue, but the 2 individual ones you get are black and green. Huh?
I also agree with Doug's assessment of the 8 Str. Early on, before you can afford mithral or darkleaf cloth armor, you're going to be butting right up against the light load limit. Remember, as a full BAB class, you don't necessarily need an 18 in Dex at level 1. If you insist on it, might I recommend:
However, I really like a little Cha on a 'slinger, even one that's not a Mysterious Stranger. Being able to use your own wand of abundant ammunition can end up saving you a ton of money. For that, I'd recommend the Dangerously Curious trait and an ability spread that looks like:
An 8 Str and a masterwork backpack will get you a carrying capacity of 30 lbs. That should be enough to hold you over as long as you wear leather armor until you can afford the aforementioned mithral kikko or darkleaf cloth leather lamellar. This will give you a +6 in UMD at level 1, and if you sneak in a Skill Focus later on, you'll be able to auto-activate any wand by level 9 or so.
Even with no bonus to Dex the Dwarf makes a really really nice gunslinger. As you say in your guide, your targetting touch, so being slightly lower on Dex doesn't hurt that much in the long run. Additionally, you get bonuses to 2 really important attributes.
Slow and steady is a huge boon to you. 20 foot movement doesn't matter much as your usually full attacking from anywhereish. Additionally, it makes it so your 7 strength is a weight limit of 69 lbs! Very nice indeed! Other races have a ton of inventory management if they want to have a 7 strength, but the dwarf actually thrives with a 7 strength.
Their -2 is to your other dump stat(cha), which is super win.
Also, their FCB is probably the best in the game. Reducing misfire means not spending actions to clear your gun, and not shooting 5 shots to misfire on the 2nd one and loose all additional attacks.
They probably aren't a blue option, but I'd say they are a green choice.
Also, I'd organize feats by MUST TAKE THESE, and then followup with all the other feats.
Bah! Now you've got me wanting to make a dwarven musket master. It's like the original World of Warcraft cinematic all over again.
Edit: Wait, Slow and Steady only affects movement. Having a medium/heavy load would still affect max Dex to AC, attack rolls, and whatever else it affects.
I currently have a human musket master that has 3 scenarios under his belt. I am almost certainly playing him Saturday in Mask of the Living god (2-4 mod), so he's going to be locked in after that. I have to make sure I'm happy with whatever I decide.
I currently have a human musket master that has 3 scenarios under his belt. I am almost certainly playing him Saturday in Mask of the Living god (2-4 mod), so he's going to be locked in after that. I have to make sure I'm happy with whatever I decide.
REMAKE HIM!
Humans may be the superior mechanical choice, but then you don't get to be a DWARF!
And think of all the cool lines you can harvest! And really, the gunslinger is so broken mechanically you hardly notice the hit to power. And the - to misfire is really nice at higher levels. Roll a 2, doesn't stop you from full attacking, AND it still hits!
Ezekiel Bainbridge
Male Human (Taldan) Gunslinger (Musket Master) 2 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0, 9)
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +7
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 18 (2d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +3
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Ranged masterwork musket +8 (1d12+1/×4)
Special Attacks grit
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 12
Base Atk +2; CMB +1; CMD 16
Feats Gunsmithing[UC], Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload
Traits dangerously curious, trustworthy
Skills Acrobatics +8, Bluff +1 (+2 to fool others), Craft (alchemy) +4, Diplomacy +6, Knowledge (engineering) +3, Knowledge (local) +3, Perception +7, Survival +7, Use Magic Device +7
Languages Common
SQ deeds (deadeye, quick clear, steady aim)
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds, wand of abundant ammunition (50 charges); Other Gear darkleaf cloth studded leather, alchemical cartridge (paper) (20), masterwork musket, backpack, masterwork, silk rope (50 ft.), wrist sheath, spring loaded, 503 gp
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Special Abilities
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Grit (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on firearm crit/killing blow.
Gunsmithing You can use a gunsmithing kit to craft/repair firearms and ammo.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Reload (Musket) You can reload fast with one type of Crossbow or Firearm.
Trustworthy +1 on Bluff checks to fool someone.
Wand of abundant ammunition (50 charges)
And this is the dwarven musket master I made.
Dwarf musket master:
Dwarven Musket Master
Dwarf Gunslinger (Musket Master) 2 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0, 9)
LG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 10 (+4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 18 (2d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +3; +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training (+4 dodge bonus to AC vs. giants)
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Special Attacks grit, +1 on attack rolls against goblinoid and orc humanoids
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 5
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 17 (21 vs. bull rush, 21 vs. trip)
Feats Gunsmithing[UC], Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload
Skills Acrobatics +9, Appraise +1 (+3 to determine the price of nonmagic items with precious metals or gemstones), Craft (alchemy) +6, Knowledge (engineering) +5, Knowledge (local) +5, Perception +8 (+10 to notice unusual stonework), Survival +8
Languages Common, Dwarven, Goblin
SQ deeds (deadeye, quick clear, steady aim)
Other Gear 1,622 gp
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Special Abilities
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Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Grit (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on firearm crit/killing blow.
Gunsmithing You can use a gunsmithing kit to craft/repair firearms and ammo.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Rapid Reload (Musket) You can reload fast with one type of Crossbow or Firearm.
I didn't add gear to the dwarf, but assume it's the exact same as the human. The human just looks a lot better.
Given how often the two are conjointly banned or allowed in many groups, I'd suggest taking a look at the psionic multiclassing options.
Aegis and Marksman in particular make superb combinations with the gunslinger, and Adaptive Warrior in particular deserves special mention for the sniper builds, as you can eventually auto-threat with it.
As you've pointed out the hit to Str does Diminish your Carrying Capacity and will hinder you somewhat in that respect. The solution is Muleback Cords.
"The wearer treats his Strength score as 8 higher than normal when determining his carrying capacity."
For 1,000g you should be able to pick them up fairly early in the game, probably by lvl3.
Will reply to other concerns when I have more time
Except they take up the same slot as a cloak of resistance. Although being a Dex and Wis based character with a goof fortitude save, a cloak of resistance is less important for a gunslinger.
Question: why does nobody take notice of Kitsune for Mysterious Stranger gunslingers? if you could add them to the guide that would be nice :)
Because Mysterious Strangers are a sub optimal choice.
I agree, but if you're going to do a gunslinger guide you have to include them. And if you're including them, kitsune is one of the best races for them.
I'm quite excited. I get to play my musket master in a mod tomorrow. Once the mod is over, I'll be level 3 and have Rapid Shot and be able to fire 2 shots per round.
I'd like to start things off by saying Thank You all for taking the time to actually look at my guide. I put quite a number of hours into it and Every time I see a comment here or a person looking at the file it means a lot.
I'd also like to say that I'm going to try to explain my thought process on the issues you bring up and hopefully we will correct any issues that may be present and this can become the best of the few Gunslinger Guides out there.
So:
I rate Knowledge as Blue because in general the knowledge skills are some of the most useful. Information is king and you live and die by what little you can get. Basically in my opinion knowledge skills are extremely useful and everyone should consider having at least one rank in some of the knowledge skills. Dungeoneering, Religion, Planes, Nature, Local, and History all will at some point inevitably come up in any game you play and being able to attempt a knowledge check at +1 is better than not being able to do so at all. However, I rate the two that are given as class skills based on their usefulness to you as a Gunslinger, rather than as a player. This is why they are Black and Green respectively.
Dwarves are in my opinion a totally fine choice. If you want to play a dwarf and would have fun role-playing it then go for it. You won't be mechanically hindered in a significant way, but you also aren't getting quite the advantage that some of the other races would have provided.
I'm also assuming that most people will play a pistolero or Musket Master because they are the most popular. This means that at lvl 13 their Favored Class bonus becomes Irrelevant. Even if you do not play one of those Archetypes, most firearms won't incur a misfire value greater than 2 on average, so you'll start to see diminishing returns after lvl 8, whereas Humans for example, gain Grit, which is useful forever. There are a few more reasons that I've decided not to rate them Green, but ultimately it comes down to them being overall an average choice, neither good nor bad mechanically and thus I give them a Black Rating.
The Muleback Chords taking up the same slot as Cloak of Resistance is as you pointed out, not quite as bad considering Gunslingers have ok saves overall, but you are also forgetting that you can add effects to items after the fact, albeit for an increased cost.
I have arranged the Feats in order of Prerequisites as able. I considered organizing them in order of rank, but felt that that would be slightly more confusing and somewhat unnecessary due to color coding them making it fairly easy to just scroll though looking for Blue and Green options.
I Decided to Dump Strength because I feel that Cha is more important to a Gunslinger. As was said before, being able to use a Wand is great and also things like Diplomacy and Intimidate use Cha.
I did consider lowering Int for Str, but felt that Int is more important. You'll want to take advantage of all the skill points you can and you'll want to have at least 10 Int for that.
I didn't Include Kitsune because I haven't gone through the Uncommon Races list in this Guide yet. I'm eventually going to add them later on, but for now I have excluded: Changelings, Duergar, Gillmen, Grippli, Kitsune, Merfolk, Nagaji, Samsarans, Strix, Suli, Svirfneblin, Vanara, Vishkanya, and Wayangs.
I've Excluded Psionics for now Mostly because I'm not as familiar with all of the material regarding Psions, but also because they are somewhat less common overall. I do hope to add them eventually as well though.
one thing to keep in mind is that restricting people to appropriately sized weapons is actually a houserule, thats why we have inappropriate size penalties and goblins in particular have this which is one of the reasons they are considered one of the best gunslinger races.
Another concern is if your party is cool with having a goblin join the team. If yes then they are not too bad a choice, only concern is that you may benefit more from other choices. Also you don't necessarily want to be forced tot take an extra feat, however depending on build obviously you may be fine with that. Just some things to consider.
Also, in the guide I have to make the assumption that you are using appropriately sized weapons always.
I think that you entirely underrate the tank role. You have good dexterity, and therefore good ac. In PFS with my gunslinger , I frequently have the highest AC at the table. In addition, you have really good saves because the only stats that you should be putting points into are dex, con, and wis, and good hit dice. The only issue is provoking when you attack, and so a way to get concealment or the feat deft shootist. Optionally, though, you could just invest heavily in AC and fight defensively (to hit penalties, what a joke) and eat the AOOs, giving your teammates additional options when the enemies cannot take attacks of opportunity (this strategy is less awesome if fighting high dex enemies who have combat reflexes). With this style, the snapshot chain becomes blue because you can move in and lock down an area.
Stat arrays- depending on what level it will go to, a higher dex may be useful. On my PFS gunslinger, I started with 18 dex 14 con 14 wis 11 str 7 int 7 cha, with the racial in dex. My only regret with that stat array is that I wish I had swapped int and str for more skill points.
I would put sense motive at least green, with extra skill points not needed for in combat skill, it allows social ability if you dumped cha (which you should)
Depending on play style, investing too heavily in deeds may be a trap. Absolutely invest in wisdom, but extra grit is not worth it for a resource that you can regain through normal adventurer action (killing people), and full attacking is generally superior to using a deed. IMHO, they are useful only for when full attacking is unfeasible or when trying to do something specific.
YMMV with initiative boosters. Personally, I take reactionary, but get more value out of other feats than improved initiative. I typically stop boosting at around a +10, which is very easy for a gunslinger to get, (my PFS 'slinger has +11, +2 trait +6 dex +2 deed +1 stone) and I still reliably go first.
Just a note, additional traits should almost never be red. Traits are awesome. Godless healing should always be red because just get a wand and a umd ioun stone. Or a potion.
Mysterious stranger is not very optimal if you are playing to late game. It is effectively a trade between social skill bonuses or dodge bonuses (trades nimble for a bonus on will saves approximately equivalent to a standard gunslinger's wisdom bonus as he levels) and perception bonus (the latter is the better end), and having to spend a grit every time you want a stat to damage. It also has some early game problems in that, if you misfire, you cannot repair in combat.
Multiclassing is actually for once a very good idea, and I am glad that you recommended it. The mysterious stranger does have good synergy with other charisma based classes, and becomes more viable with that considered, but still not quite optimal. However, even for the base gunslinger multiclassing is a good idea. If you have a decent wisdom you can go into one of the various divine casters and pick up some utility. A personal favorite of mine is the new warpreist for their swift action buffing, and inquisitors, druids, and clerics all have much to offer. The fact is, after you get dex to damage, you gain significantly less in Gunslinger than you would if you went elsewhere. My gunslingers nearly always multiclass in their 6th level, only changing class at 7th for the defensive builds that can afford it (another +1 dodge from nimble and all saves go up 1). You can also go fighter, if you want to go a straight combat route, but I find that warpriest offers almost as much for combat and has added utility.
As a ranged character, you get your damage from full attacks, and so your first priority should be getting rid of weaknesses to make sure that you can full attack to maximum effect. After +1, your first enchantment for your gun should be reliable; you do not want your full attacks interrupted. Next should be dealing with any other problems that you find with your ranged attacks, but you share your plight with archers, and so with a combination of feats and enhancements you can be consistently making high damage full attacks.
You make a few good points. I'll add some of it to the guide :)
I am not planning on recommending anyone attempt to make a tank type build as a gunslinger though. If you want to do it you certainly can accomplish it, but I feel that you are going to be limiting yourself by doing so. Also, you would be outmatched by several other classes in this role. As such, if you are a player looking for a class to be a tank then you should probably move along as there are much better options.
There seems to be confusion about the Black rating. Basically it means that whatever it is will flux between green and orange. If you are in a game where you do only combat then it's pretty orange, but if you get into social areas then its green.
I expect most people will get at least a little bit of use out of Sense Motive, but probably not as often or as effectively as another skill.
I agree with you on extra grit and will bump it down to black. Some people burn through grit like crazy or will not invest in Wis as much as they should have. Its a pretty decent feat for someone to take if they don't have anything else to go for though.
As Deeds are essentially why you pick gunslinger over making a fighter with firearms proficiency (i know there's more to it than that.) I feel that most people will want to use them to some extent and so I make the guide under the assumption that players are intending to use them.
True with initiative boosters, but imo it's always better to go first with a DPS class. You can always delay if you need to.
I agree about additional traits. I think I originally planned on it being orange. I'll move it up to there. Personally I find that Traits can be pretty situational for the most part, but you are correct. It's a decent and variable boost, so it can be worthwhile. As it replaces a feat however it is unlikely to go above orange as I think there are better things to pick.
I originally put Godless healing as an option for people with limited ways to heal. Not everyone includes Magic Mart (TM) in their setting. You are right though, over all it's pretty red.
I agree about Mysterious strangers, I don't like them very much personally, but they are popular, so I address them as best i can.
Multiclassing is plenty viable and I give a few tips on ways to do it, but at the end of the day this is a gunslinger guide, not a Gun-Wiz-Pala-Monk guide. I give some tips on ways to go about it and on things to consider, but there are also guides out there exclusively about multiclassing, so it's probably best to look to one of those.
If anyone wants to get into their builds or any interesting MC they've done PLEASE DO SO. I'd love to see this page full of it.
The enchantments are not in any particular order or ranking as it's all pretty variable. Instead I opted to just list ones that are most notable with a brief description of the effect or my thoughts on it.
I post my PFS gunslinger 5/warpriest, as it is so far my most interesting build
Musket Master, Blessings good and luck
As of now at level 7.2
23 dex (18 +2 racial +2 item +1 level)
16 wis (14 +2 item and I wish I had invested more in this)
14 con
11 str (too much for what I use it for)
7 int
7 cha
Traits- fates favored, reactionary
Feats
1- point blank shot, precise shot (human), rapid reload (musket master)
3- rapid shot
4- deadly aim
5- combat reflexes (retrained from toughness)
6- weapon focus (warpriest)
7-clustered shots, snapshot (bonus from a scenario)
planned
8- improved critical
9- extra traits???
11- weapon specialization, improved snapshot
Notable items:
Dex belt, wis headband, natural armor amulet, cloak of resistance, ring of protection, +1 mithral parade armor, +1 buckler, +1 musket, jingasa of the fortunate soldier
Planned future purchases:
Greater reliable for musket, celestial armor, pearls of power for warpriest spells, improvement to dex belt, ac boosters
He is a blast to play, and versatile. His AC is sitting at 28, he does not provoke when I use the air blessing, and he threatens. If more ac is needed, +3 from fighting defensively, because hitting is trivially easy. To put things in perspective for PFS players out there, this is a build that can thrive in the elemental room in Bonekeep 1. Lowest save is a +9 in will. Abundant ammunition is on the warpriest spell list, although not fervor-able, so at the start of the fight I use a wand of that and fervor a divine favor. From there I go wherever the carnage may take me.
The only two things that I consider weak on this build is the lack of defense against grapples and the high rate of misfires. Therefore, greater reliable is going to be a purchase when I have the money, and I am looking for ways to keep my cmd up.
Last session I used the Targeting Deed on a Hag's arms so she let go of our dwarven cleric. This could work with other GMs too.
I would like to ask: What is more important: Improved Precise Shot or Signature Deed? How often do you need (as a Musket Master, p.e.) a specific Deed or how often is cover a problem?
Because, from my experience, cover is more often a problem (especially soft cover because of my comrades), especially if you took the Snap Shot feats (because no AoO against enemies with cover!). For that reason I would recommend taking Improved Precise Shot.
You have nothing in there for the new Bolt Ace archetype. This is a very significant archetype because it allows for gunslingers in games which do not allow guns. Currently the archetype is somewhat broken because it still has gunsmithing and gun proficiency. You may want to add a line that in home games players should request Rapid Reload as a bonus feat instead of gunsmithing and to have proficiency with all crossbows instead of guns.
Reading through this, I'm not at all in love with the formatting, although I don't care for black as a rating color for anything other than 'non applicable', since it's very easy to blend into the rest of the topics. That and the margins along the side simply feel too large for me. I do appreciate the in guide linking, that's always a strong plus.
Page numbers would be nice, as it'd help keep a better way of seeing where you are in the guide. Looking in some sections (Grit), you have some things in black that are also bold, and I'm not sure why that is. Is it to make the black options stand out more? I'd suggest bolding all the options or not bolding any, since as they're only average options, it draws the eye too much to them...yeah, it seems like you're bolding black options quite often. I'd bold all options, it helps separate them from the text that follows them.
I'd also argue coat pistols being light weapons due to weight, as it's the ease of how they're wielded which determines handedness, not the weight.
If you're gong to include 3rd party feats (which I don't recommend myself, but I'm a jerk), I'd suggest linking them, since most players will be less familiar with them. Also are they all rated black? I'm not sure what they're rated due to how they're presented.
Why is Endurance higher than Diehard? Endurance doesn't really give much, and Diehard is the gateway to a few solid feats, like Heroic Defiance, and Stalwart (improved).
The spacing between options also feels needlessly large, like it feels like a larger document than it needs to be, although I will admit it makes each option stand out, that's more personal preference on my part.
Are archetypes not rated? I'd assume Pistolero and Musket Master (especially) are hands down better for people who are going that route, seeing as you need Musket Master to drop that reload time.
Gear seems oddly unrated, only one thing is bolded, and that seems odd. It looks like you're going for more of a general 'buyer's list rather than rating anything here. Also do you really recommend Speed? It's not hard to be hasted, and boots of haste seem like a better purchase in the long run instead of putting a +3 enchant onto your main weapon, as well as working with your backup (heaven forbid you need it.)
For elemental, you might want to talk about the differences in elements. They're really not great, as it's only 1-6 additional damage, and a lot of things resist elements 5, which means you'll rarely see it. Straight bonuses seem like a better call to me so you can punch through DR without needing special ammo.
The bolding of only black options is really jarring in the situations where it's only one half of the rating. I do appreciate the warning about double guns, as some players think it's all fun and games to use them.
Sorry if it seems like I'm being over critical, it looks like you have some good information in your guide, and I want it to be the best that it can be.
-Personally I value Signature Deed over Improved Precise Shot. however if you run into not being able to shoot due to cover you have a couple decent options; the first being IPS and the second being a seeking enchantment.
-I'm only addressing the 4 most popular archetypes currently. If I have time ever I will add more though. Good point on the bolt ace one though, it is good for gun-less gunslingers. If I start adding that will be the first one to get put in.
-Regarding formatting with black options they are bolded so they stand out as ratings rather than just as text. they should all be bolded for this reason, except for leadership which is a special instance of my leaving it intentionally.
I will go and bold all rating options however for ease of reading.
I can certainly adjust the margins, but I'll have to make sure that won't screw up the rest of the formatting before I commit to it.
You can see page numbers by mousing over the scroll bar.
I only include a handful of 3pp feats (maybe 3?) for snipers because they are comparable to another feat which is arbitrarily restricted to kobolds only.
Endurance is in my opinion slightly better than diehard, and I try not to rate things based on being prerequisites as i am able. In my experience often if you are reduced to <0 HP you die most of the time, so having an extra round to maybe drink a potion usually doesn't save you and in PF it is almost always better to be offensive than defensive.
I did not rate archetypes as it's up to you what you want to play based on preference of play style. Though my personal preferences go: Pistolero > Musket Master > Siege Gunner > Mysterious Stranger
I didn't rate gear either as it is more a list of things that you might find useful, rather than a buy list. Every campaign is different so I didn't get to in depth with it. It's something I want to add to and I have slowly been editing that section when I'm not too busy real lifeing.
I can add some discussion on elemental enchants though as it is worth noting.
