Metamagic Mastery & Magical Liniage - How does this work in PFS?


Pathfinder Society

Scarab Sages

The title says it all.

If I have a character with both traits, is this legal in PFS, and how does it work game-mechanically?

Thanks.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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If you come to my table, and claim to have a trait named "Metamagic Mastery", you won't be able to play that PC (or, if I'm generous, you just won't be able to use that trait).

Spoiler:
There is no trait named "Metamagic Mastery". That's the name d20pfsrd gave to "Wayang Spellhunter" to avoid copyright infringement, and claiming you have that trait shows that you don't own the book that the trait is actually from.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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Now, with that aside, if you do have Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter (and can show you own a copy of Dragon Empires Primer), the two traits work together to lower the effective Metamagic Level of a spell by 2.

As always, a quick search of the Additional Resources document will tell you whether a trait such as this is legal for Society play.

Scarab Sages

Not sure why you insist on product ownership at your table, but thanks for the info.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
PSusac wrote:
Not sure why you insist on product ownership at your table, but thanks for the info.

It's to make sure that the player is using rules coming from an official source:

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organised Play v6.0, p5 wrote:
In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a printout of the relevant pages from it

After all, you did ask this question on the PFS boards, and asked specifically about PFS legality.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

PSusac wrote:
Not sure why you insist on product ownership at your table, but thanks for the info.

Actually, Pathfinder Society does insist on prodcut ownership, the additional resources and the guide to organised play are pretty damn clear.

Paizo is supporting organized play and this is the way they have chosen, to let the players support them in turn.

Shadow Lodge

PSusac wrote:
Not sure why you insist on product ownership at your table, but thanks for the info.

If you don't have the product you cannot confirm it's legality as most of the time the additional resources refer to page numbers. If you cannot prove the trait/feat/spell/archetype's legality, no one has to let you use it, additionally, you have to provide the rules as written in the original document for the GM to interpret should they wish to see the text.

Scarab Sages

Ah, I see. Clearly I have much to learn about PFS. Thanks.

3/5

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PSusac wrote:
Ah, I see. Clearly I have much to learn about PFS. Thanks.

It's cool. We all were new at some point. I know that many players join PFS through conventions or even local games without being given the full spiel on need-to-know info.

The key thing you'll need is the Organized Play Guide

That guide will give you all of the PFS-specific rules (well okay, a lot of them).

You will also likely want to check out the Additional Resources Page to determine things that can be used outside of the Core Assumption (see the guide and additional resources page for more info on that). As people have noted, you need to have the physical book, the watermarked pdf, or printouts of the relevant pages from your watermarked pdf in order to use things outside of the Core Assumption. This is both to make sure that Paizo is supported and to make sure the GM at any table can see the rules relevant to what you're playing. The watermark must be of your name/pfs number.

Finally, you can find some other campaign-specific rulings on our FAQ Page.

If you have any other questions, please use the boards here to get them answered, or contact your local Venture Officers (contact information for them is provided in the back of the guide I believe).

There is a lot of stuff to read when you first start out, I know, but after you do it once, it's not so bad to keep up with changes, and can make games go much more smoothly. It's the unfortunate price to be paid to keep a worldwide organized play setting, well... organized.

Welcome to the Pathfinder Society game and community. Please let myself, your Venture Captain (VC), or the entire community know if you have any more questions.

Scarab Sages

Is Varisian tattoo a similarly "must buy" feat?

Sovereign Court 2/5

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It depends on what your build is. Some casters don't really benefit from the increase in caster level on certain families of spells. For instance, caster level doesn't really do too much for Summon Monster X.

IME it mostly makes a difference for evocation casters...

3/5

PSusac wrote:
Is Varisian tattoo a similarly "must buy" feat?

Indeed. If it's not from the Core Rulebook or the Guide to Organized Play, you need to be able to provide the pdf/book (as described above).

3/5

Acedio wrote:
It depends on what your build is. Some casters don't really benefit from the increase in caster level on certain families of spells. For instance, caster level doesn't really do too much for Summon Monster X.

I believe he's asking if he "must buy" the sourcebook to use it.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Gotcha. It's not in the core rulebook so you have to make sure you own one of the listed sources here that are allowed in additional resources.

Inner Sea World guide costs the most but you get a ton of other really cool stuff. Pathfinder Player Companion: Varisia, Birthplace of Legends would be the cheapest legal source.

3/5

Archives of Nethys is a useful resource to (i) determine if something is PFS-legal (there's a little Glyph of the Open Road icon next to it) and (ii) see what book or resource it's in. (I think you can even click the links there and it takes you straight to the item on Amazon.)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Agreed. I, too, primarily use Archives of Nethys for most of my searches.

Especially since searching the new PRD is more difficult now than it was before.

Scarab Sages

Muchas Grasias!

5/5 5/55/5 * Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

Acedio wrote:
Pathfinder Player Companion: Varisia, Birthplace of Legends would be the cheapest legal source.

He's talking about the "Varisian Tattoo" Feat, not the Trait. The feat can only be found in the Inner Sea World Guide.

The Inner Sea World Guide is money very well invested, though, even if you don't use it for PFS. It's full of information about the countries of the Inner Sea, has lots of minor deities, description of human ethnicies, and some more feats than just "Varisian Tattoo", most of which are really good. (There's more stuff in there, but I think those are some of the best parts.)

Sovereign Court 2/5

Andreas Forster wrote:
Acedio wrote:
Pathfinder Player Companion: Varisia, Birthplace of Legends would be the cheapest legal source.

He's talking about the "Varisian Tattoo" Feat, not the Trait. The feat can only be found in the Inner Sea World Guide.

The Inner Sea World Guide is money very well invested, though, even if you don't use it for PFS. It's full of information about the countries of the Inner Sea, has lots of minor deities, description of human ethnicies, and some more feats than just "Varisian Tattoo", most of which are really good. (There's more stuff in there, but I think those are some of the best parts.)

Thanks for the correction, was not aware there was even a trait.

Dark Archive

I little suggestion if price of the books is an issue. You can buy PDF's from Paizo for much less than the books cost(especially the hardcover books), then print out the pages you need that will show your watermark to prove you bought it. It's also a lot less heavy than hauling all your books around everywhere.

Oh course, I've rarely seem anyone check to make sure everyone has all the books they need, even at big conventions. But any GM is well within their rights to call you on it, and say you can't use the ability or even play the character if you can't provide the books they are in.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Victor Zajic wrote:

I little suggestion if price of the books is an issue. You can buy PDF's from Paizo for much less than the books cost(especially the hardcover books), then print out the pages you need that will show your watermark to prove you bought it. It's also a lot less heavy than hauling all your books around everywhere.

Oh course, I've rarely seem anyone check to make sure everyone has all the books they need, even at big conventions. But any GM is well within their rights to call you on it, and say you can't use the ability or even play the character if you can't provide the books they are in.

And if you have an electronic reader (like a kindle), a tablet or a laptop, you can just show the source to the GM on that. But it still has to be a legal pdf source. Alternatively you just have to provide any source, if one of your friends has a physical copy of the product (maybe they are a subscriber) they can lend it to you and use their pdf.

Scarab Sages

The only time I've had anyone check that I( or someone else) had the source material:
- I was using a trait that the GM hadn't heard of, and he asked to see the source to see WTF does that do?
- As a mildly passive-agressive way of saying I think this ability use is cheesy and if you're going to use this at my table, you better damn own the book

3/5

There are GMs that regularly check. Plus, these are the rules, people shouldn't try to circumvent them. For home games that is fine, but if you're going to be a member of a group (like PFS), you agree to follow their rules. There's always the Core book.

Scarab Sages

I have no objection to buying the book. I already have the inner sea guide, and a pdf of the Dragon Empires Primer is no big deal.

I'm happy to support my hobby.

3/5

PSusac wrote:

I have no objection to buying the book. I already have the inner sea guide, and a pdf of the Dragon Empires Primer is no big deal.

I'm happy to support my hobby.

Awesome! The ISG is a really great book. I wasn't referring to you specifically, and hope I didn't offend. My statement was a general one made in reference to comments I've seen others make in the past (heck, that I've thought in the past myself).

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