Goblin Squad Member
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I'm curious as to what rotations people have been using so far in alpha. I'm working on a program to compare various rotations and want to include popular ones.
Right now I classify the attacks in the rotation into 4 categories. Not all categories will be part of every rotation. They are:
Alpha strikes - attacks you open with and never use outside of that opener.
Conditional attacks - attacks you use only if a certain condition is in place (eg. your target has distressed)
Bread and butter - your go to attacks once your alpha is done and conditions don't hold true. Basically attacks you'd spam.
Other - your other attacks that you can rotate through when all the above are on cooldown, conditions don't occur etc.
The logic of the early version of the program works based on going through the above list in order while stepping forward in time, taking into account stamina and cooldowns. If there's a category that you think should be added let me know.
For an example of a very simple staff rotation:
Alpha - Arctic Winds
Bread and butter - Winter's Caresse
Ie. open with Arctic Winds and then spam Winter's Caresse.
A wand rotation:
Conditional - Downburst (when distressed)
Bread and butter - Flare
Ie. spam flare until distressed comes up and then use Downburst for cc.
A different wand rotation:
Other - Flare, Frost Ray
Ie. alternately use flare and frost ray
Obviously more complex rotations are possible, such as multiple conditionals, attacks falling into multiple categories. There can be aoe rotations, rotations against creatures effectively immune to certain damage types, etc.
So please post any rotation you've tried. If my categorization doesn't work for you please post it anyways and I'll try to figure out a way to accommodate it into the program.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One kind of rotation I'm interested in is:
A) Opener
B) Inflict trigger for C)
C) Take advantage of trigger from B)
D) Spam until B) is ready to go again.
That should be included in the above.
Opener = alpha
Trigger inflicter = bread and butter
Take advantage of trigger = conditional
spam while trigger inflicter is on cd = single attack in 'other'
The reason for my ordering is that the conditional attack (which is the one that capitalizes on conditions) is a higher priority than everything except the opener. So it's listed first even though it comes later. Essentially every 0.1 s the program checks if it can attack and goes through the priority list each time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My cleric was limited to three longish distance medium damage casts (like divine lance) before I had to reduce output to low damage orisons. This is because I didn't have the power reserves to fuel things like divine lance.
Generally, by that time, I would swap weapons to melee (light mace & shield) because in melee the crusader spec cleric is reasonably survivable and deals decent damage.
Yet, to gain cleric levels, divine achievements were necessary. That means I always had to swap back to divine spells for a closer before the mob went down for my divine achievement tally to increment.
My cleric never gained a single point in the divine achievement tally for healing, which seemed to me a failing for a healing class.
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
Overdraw
This. Bow so OP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Worth noting is that an algorithm that prefers to attack now if an attack is possible will end up spamming the lowest stamina ability to the exclusion of all others. Keeping enough stamina to use the conditional is a valid tactic.
Agreed. I'm thinking of adding a 'Wait' dummy attack which just waits a bit for stamina to regen. Or something similar. It may not be working for initial versions, but is on my todo list.
Eg.
Conditional #1 - X if condition Y
Conditional #2 - if Y and not enough stamina for X use Wait for stamina regen, provided the stamina regen would be complete before Y wears off
Bread and Butter - Z (applies Y)
Edit: Or if the user wants to keep a certain minimum of stamina in reserve to capitalize immediately, have a conditional to use Wait for a short period.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Now, account for how likely it is that the conditional would be met this combat, adjust for how effective possible status effects might be, and the whether or not an otherwise suboptimal DPS might finish off the opponent.
Rotations are descriptive of systems where there is little variance in tactics. I hope that at least PvP ends up not having that characteristic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One kind of rotation I'm interested in is:
A) Opener
B) Inflict trigger for C)
C) Take advantage of trigger from B)
D) Spam until B) is ready to go again.That should be included in the above.
Opener = alpha
Trigger inflicter = bread and butter
Take advantage of trigger = conditional
spam while trigger inflicter is on cd = single attack in 'other'The reason for my ordering is that the conditional attack (which is the one that capitalizes on conditions) is a higher priority than everything except the opener. So it's listed first even though it comes later. Essentially every 0.1 s the program checks if it can attack and goes through the priority list each time.
I'm old fashioned. I push de buttons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now, account for how likely it is that the conditional would be met this combat, adjust for how effective possible status effects might be, and the whether or not an otherwise suboptimal DPS might finish off the opponent.
Rotations are descriptive of systems where there is little variance in tactics. I hope that at least PvP ends up not having that characteristic.
Dealing with conditions only applied sometimes (eg. 25% chance of distressed) is relatively easy if done through monte carlos or weighting in some way. Conditions which shift the difference in attack and defense bonuses are the simplest to add and will be done first. Others to be added if/as I get a handle on the code.
I tend to think of rotations as something that is stuck to except as the situation dictates. So while it may not be perfect for pvp it gives a good idea of what to default to. In the most primitive versions of the program I've 'raced' a few simple rotations to various damage totals to see which would kill an opponent faster. Some were vastly superior to others. Eg. ~10 s to do 800 dmg or ~20 s to do 800 dmg against a given target. Even if you can't stick to a rotation perfectly due to pvp complications the algorithm can't handle it should be obvious which ones are better to use than others based on how they do in certain races.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With so much happening on-screen, I dread being able to successfully spot Effects which trigger 100% of the time, much less those with only a probability. I expect to end up one of those who spams attacks, leaving it to others to take advantage of whatever Effects I accidentally set up for them at the right moment.
My MMO-skill development seems to've stopped at about LOTRO-level. I can tell when I play Wildstar or ESO that I'm leaving a lot of gameplay on the table...which might explain why I'm not interested in them any more.
The current trend toward player-skill as opposed to character-skill is one I don't seem to have the hand/eye coordination for. Of course, having none of that coordination to begin with may have been my first clue :-).
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Goblin Squad Member
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My cleric was limited to three longish distance medium damage casts (like divine lance) before I had to reduce output to low damage orisons. This is because I didn't have the power reserves to fuel things like divine lance.
Generally, by that time, I would swap weapons to melee (light mace & shield) because in melee the crusader spec cleric is reasonably survivable and deals decent damage.
Yet, to gain cleric levels, divine achievements were necessary. That means I always had to swap back to divine spells for a closer before the mob went down for my divine achievement tally to increment.
My cleric never gained a single point in the divine achievement tally for healing, which seemed to me a failing for a healing class.
In melee the Darkness spell does useful damage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With so much happening on-screen, I dread being able to successfully spot Effects which trigger 100% of the time, much less those with only a probability. I expect to end up one of those who spams attacks, leaving it to others to take advantage of whatever Effects I accidentally set up for them at the right moment.
My MMO-skill development seems to've stopped at about LOTRO-level. I can tell when I play Wildstar or ESO that I'm leaving a lot of gameplay on the table...which might explain why I'm not interested in them any more.
The current trend toward player-skill as opposed to character-skill is one I don't seem to have the hand/eye coordination for. Of course, having none of that coordination to begin with may have been my first clue :-).
I'm afraid this is exactly my position. If I am continuously in trouble because I (as a player) am not skilled enough to note what effects are in play and therefore am wasting much of my character's capacity, I won't be able to justify involvement. The extent of my "strategy" in combat is to back away while firing arrows. If that means backing right into the next mob over, I never notice that until I start taking damage.
Perhaps I am feeble, but if my character's heroism is dependent on my skill, then I'm wasting everybody's time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In melee the Darkness spell does useful damage.My cleric was limited to three longish distance medium damage casts (like divine lance) before I had to reduce output to low damage orisons. This is because I didn't have the power reserves to fuel things like divine lance.
Generally, by that time, I would swap weapons to melee (light mace & shield) because in melee the crusader spec cleric is reasonably survivable and deals decent damage.
Yet, to gain cleric levels, divine achievements were necessary. That means I always had to swap back to divine spells for a closer before the mob went down for my divine achievement tally to increment.
My cleric never gained a single point in the divine achievement tally for healing, which seemed to me a failing for a healing class.
Stacking Darkness does indeed work well, as long as its not PvP. You just need to out heal the damage of the other 3-6 mobs hitting you.
