ACG Switch Hitter?


Advice


I'm trying to put together a Dex-based switch hitter using the goodies from the ACG. Not sure how well I did.

Clever Clevermouse

Clever Swashbuckler build:

Clever Clevermouse
Human Investigator 1 (Steel Hound/Sleuth)/ Swashbuckler X (Inspired Blade/ Mouser)

Str 12
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 14
Cha 14
Wis 10

Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Survivalist

Feats (Features):

1 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot. (Bonus Feats: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus Rapier).
2 Investigator Level. Gain Inspiration (3 points), Skills, +2 to Luck/Panache Pool, Will Save bonus, Proficiency with Musket/Double Musket
3 (Charmed Life). Dodge
4 (+1 Con, Nimble +1)
5 Battle Cry. Bonus Feat: Mobility
6 (Rapier Training)
7 Deadly Aim (Charmed Life)
8 (Nimble +2, +1 Dex)
9 Dazzling Display? Bonus Feat: Canny Tumble?

This would be intended for PFS and is intended to act as a swiss army knife to fill different roles based on what other folks have brought to the table. So, for example, if the party is mostly melee muscle, our girl can stand back and take pot shots with her longbow (musket or double musket after level 1) while the big boys mess him up.

Seems to me like there's a lot of wiggle room for action economy.

Level One - let's say our girl starts her turn ten feet away from the bad guy (and I'll make it my business to make this happens). She drinks her Reduce Person potion as a move action, then five foots forward and takes a shot with her 'lil longbow - defensively - at a bonus of +2 to hit and a mere d6+1 damage (unless there's a bard or some other buffs). This ought to trigger an opportunity attack. This triggers a Dodging Panache deed, which bangs her effective AC up to 22 in studded leather or 23 in a chain shirt. If that attack misses, our heroine can now slide under his legs and has the option of either going throw with the (short) longbow attack or draw her Rapier for a potential opportunity attack.

Now everybody who wants a flanking bonus only has to be adjacent to me (and therefore the bad guy). Hi rogues! (Did ACG make them an endangered species?) Hi ninjas and slayers! Bad guy meanwhile suffers a

At level 2, this can be done with a musket. Small size is a mere d10 versus touch AC . If the bad guy is Large - which will happen more often as she levels - she can forego Reduce Person; at the end of that sequence she can fire for d12+1 and draw her Rapier as a move action. Guy's already taken his Opportunity Attack. I've been trying to find a place to squeeze Quick Draw in without sacrificing too much too early.

Any suggestions? The goal is to create an effective switch hitter with a gun. The melee part of this build is more focused on "anvil" than on "hammer".

Liberty's Edge

Steel Hound is not allowed in PFS play.


One unfortunate part of Swashbuckler is that there doesn't seem to be any way to get Precise Strike on non-thrown ranged weapons, even with the gun-based archetypes.

However, the Flying Blade archetype gets pretty much all of its bonuses to melee as well as ranged attacks, as long as they use starknives or daggers.

Sorry, not sure if this is helpful for what you're looking for... it's just what came to mind when I read the title.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Steel Hound is not allowed in PFS play.

For real? What a bummer.

Liberty's Edge

joeyfixit wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Steel Hound is not allowed in PFS play.
For real? What a bummer.

This is true of almost all non-Gunslinger archetypes that use guns. I think it's a theme thing.


Okay, how about a Mysterious Stranger for level 2? Gets me the weapon proficiency (and a free gun), trade Fort save for Will, and inspiration for BAB. Two fewer skills and I lose a boatload of trained skills, but I retain the basic concept.

Requires me to swap Survivalist trait for Indomitable Faith. Luckily I have a Charmed life.

If I cough up the Battle Cry for Quick Draw, it looks more like:

1 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot. (Bonus Feats: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus Rapier).
2 Gunslinger Level (Mysterious Stranger). +2 to Grit/Panache Pool, Will Save bonus, Proficiency with firearms, battered Musket.
3 (Charmed Life). Quick Draw
4 (+1 Con, Nimble +1)
5 Dodge. Bonus Feat: Mobility
6 (Rapier Training)
7 Battle Cry (Charmed Life)
8 (Nimble +2, +1 Dex)
9 Deadly Aim Bonus Feat: Canny Tumble

Also, she can't do two immediate actions on the same turn. So either she's dodging or she's mousing. However, I think it's possible for her to fire a shot defensively, then step into threat range and drink a potion. If the attack misses, she should be able to drink the potion and then spend her immediate action to slide under his legs. And then draw a weapon as a free action. If the DM doesn't allow it, she can drink the potion, then fire the smaller weapon and try the same thing without the dodging panache bonus (but with an equivalent small sized, dex-boosted bonus).

Liberty's Edge

You should definitely leave room for the Fencing Grace Feat. It's not available in PFS yet, but Dex-to-damage in melee is great on this build, and only a Feat away once it is available in October. I'd swap out Mobility for it, personally.


Level 1:
:

Initiative +3
HP 12

Rapier: +5, d6+1
Longbow(30'): +5, d8+1
Heavy Xbow (30'): +5, d10+1

Fort +1
Reflex +5
Will +1

50gp will get me a Reduce Person potion if there's no willing caster to buff me to get under a Medium bad guy and provide a flanking buddy/debuff vs. notme.

Level 2:
:

Rapier: +6, d6+1
Musket (30') +6 vs touch AC, d12+1 (Focused Aim: d12+3)

Fort +3
Reflex +7
Will +1


Level 3:
:

Rapier +7, d6+1
Musket: +7 touch AC, d12+1/+3

Fort +3
Reflex +8
Will +1 (yikes!)

Add +2 to a save 2/day


Level 4:
:

+2 inish, draw Rapier for free
+1 Dodge (nimble)

Rapier: +8, d6+1
Musket: +8, d12+1/+3

Fort +5
Reflex +8
Will +2

After hitting a big bad with the rapier, can try for a steal CM as a swift action, no AoO.

By level 5, I should have about ten grand. That's +1 for each weapon and a belt of dex +2, with enough left over for a ring of deflection. However, given that the character's will save is only a +2 at level 5, the ring will have to be replaced by a cloak of Resistance +1 and a +1 for the chain shirt.

Level 5:

Initiative +5
HP 49

AC: 21
Touch AC: 16
FF AC: 15
+4 vs movement Opportunity Attacks

Dex (4) + Dodge (2) + Chain Shirt+1 (5)

Rapier: +10, d6+2
Musket: +10, d12+2/ Focused Aim d12+4

Fort +6
Reflex +10
Will +3

Littled:

AC 23
Touch AC 18
FF AC 16

Rapier +12, d4+1
Musket: +12, d10+2/d10+4

Fort +6
Reflex +11
Will +3

Level 6

Let's hope that we can afford that ring by now, as well as an aegis or recovery.

Level6:

AC 22
Touch 17
FF 16

Rapier: +12/+7, d6+4
Double Musket: +11/+6 vs touch AC, d12+2/d12+5

Fort +6
Reflex +11
Will +4

Littled: Rapier +14/+9, d4+3
Double Musket: +13+/+8 vs touch AC, d10+2/d10+5

At this point, we're saving up to add the Agile Quality to the rapier, at which point we can more or less save the musket for when it's really needed. Bad guys across a canyon, or feet stuck in liquid stone or some such. Or rapier fell off a cliff.

I don't play melee characters in PFS too often; does this look pretty good?


Deadmanwalking wrote:
You should definitely leave room for the Fencing Grace Feat. It's not available in PFS yet, but Dex-to-damage in melee is great on this build, and only a Feat away once it is available in October. I'd swap out Mobility for it, personally.

Wow. With that I would absolutely swap Strength for Wisdom.

So, a halfling with a 20 dex can have a +6/d4+5 melee weapon at first level? Crazy.


Okay, so that build would be more like:

Stats:

Str 07
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 12
Cha 14
Wis 12

Accelerated Drinker
Indomitable Faith

1 Point Blank Shot, Fencing Grace. (Bonus Feats: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus Rapier).
2 Gunslinger Level (Mysterious Stranger). +2 to Grit/Panache Pool, Will Save bonus, Proficiency with firearms, battered Musket.
3 (Charmed Life). Quick Draw
4 (+1 ?, Nimble +1)
5 Dodge. Bonus Feat: Mobility
6 (Rapier Training)
7 Battle Cry (Charmed Life)
8 (Nimble +2, +1 Dex)
9 Deadly Aim. Bonus Feat: Canny Tumble

Level 01

HP 13

Rapier +6/d6+4
Longbow nope
Heavy Xbow +6/d10+1

AC 17 (Studded Leather)

Fort 2
Reflex 7
Will 2

Littled

AC: 19

Rapier +8/d4+4
Longbow still nope
Heavy Xbow +8/d8+1

I'm wondering if a switch hitter really needs Precise Shot. If there's melee, I should be hopping in there.

Do I really need a 14 INT without the investigator level?

Level 02

Rapier +7/d6+4
Musket +7/d12+1

Liberty's Edge

Unless you're gonna wait a month and a half to start the character, Fencing Grace won't be available for PFS yet (since the book it's in isn't technically out yet), so I'd put it off until a slightly higher level (like 3rd)...or wait. Your choice.

Str 13 is also still very useful for Swashbucklers so they can grab Power Attack...though it's not required by any means.


So now my thinking has shifted completely around. I'm approaching more as

Inspired Mouser 1/Mysterious Stranger 1/Sleuth X

with the original stats. Also, doing away with all of the ranged feats, except maybe Deadly Aim. If precise shot is required, she'd rather ditch the gun and just hop in the fray. And guns target Touch AC, and eventually she'll be able to make a studied strike with her Rapier.

I'm hanging on to the gunslinger level for the proficiency, free gun, boost to grit/panache/luck pool, and Fort save. Not to mention BAB and HP. Also, a deed that boosts damage for the gun - by third level there'll be 8 points to spend.

Stats:

Str 12
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 14
Cha 14
Wis 10

Feats:

1 Dodge, Mobility
3 Quick Draw
5 Battle Cry

Can't see past level 5. Might want extra talents or something by then. Or Canny Tumble.

This build has become less of a damage dealer and more of a battlefield manipulator. For level one, she'll have a tactic of attacking defensively, running circles around a bad guy hoping he'll take an opportunity attack. If he swings and misses she hops in his square to provide the flanking bonus and debuff. At level two she can shoot the bad guy (defensively) and then drop her gun to run circles around him. At level three she can shoot the bad guy in the face, dodge his attack, and then draw her weapon as a free action once she's in his square.

Liberty's Edge

Why would you go Sleuth? It's an awful Archetype in many ways. It's not terrible for a 1-level dip, but it's really not a good plan as a primary class, giving up spellcasting for a set of very mediocre capabilities.


The main reason is that the Spellcasting will already be 2 levels behind, which is terrible. Still doing 1st level extracts at level 5? No thanks.

Also, this is a melee-focused build (I'm not even going to sink any feats into it). I'd want to hang around with Sleuth for at least 4 levels, to pick up inspired alertness (with so much invested in Dex, not being caught flatfooted will be handy) and studied strike. If I hop back to Swashbuckler after, I've only lost 1 BAB.


As I look through the ACG, four levels of Sleuth will give me:

A boatload of skill points, and stealth and disable device and diplomacy and all the knowledges.

A grit/luck/panache pool of 8 points, unless I'm very wrong about them stacking. And I don't think that I am.

Half of an improved initiative (should stack with the nimble bonus that the swashbuckler level could eventually give me).

Evasion.

Four Inspiration points. Good for a bonus to skill checks but more importantly, +d6 to a saving throw or attack roll twice per day. Which as I read it comes after seeing what the result is (probably won't work on a natural 1).

The ability to use one of those points to avoid being flatfooted (!).

+2 to melee rolls against a target as a swift action (for the cost of one Extra Investigator talent feat). Which I can do while I'm occupying a big bad's square.

Sneak attack damage rolls if I hit against said target.

For +3 BAB and +4 Will, I think that's pretty good. I might even consider taking exclusively fighter levels from then on to free up a few feats for extra inspiration or extra investigator talents.


Inspired Blade and Mouser don't stack, as they both replace the Bleeding Wound deed.


SunsetPsychosis wrote:
Inspired Blade and Mouser don't stack, as they both replace the Bleeding Wound deed.

(Sigh). Right you are. Okay, so the main difference is -1 to Rapier attacks and two fewer Panache Points.


You have fewer Panache points, but by dropping Inspired Blade, you get back the ability to gain Panache from killing blows. By choosing your targets well (or sniping kills from your teammates), you could potentially make up some of that difference. You also get more weapon options, so not a total loss.


Played with this build (Mouser only) last night. It was a really RP/Social heavy mod. I didn't expect the melee character to do too well; for example, the first (and only) combat encounter didn't start til the last ten minutes of scheduled playtime. But I think she did pretty well in the social encounters. Bluff, Intimidate, and Oratory Perform do well to make up for a lack of diplomacy in a pinch, if you have a decent CHA.

One of the benefits of shrinking as a move action (accelerated drinker) is the boost to Dex skills without nerfing your speed. Helps you Acrobat through a glass window and tumble through people's spaces.

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