Robot Hardness Questions


Iron Gods

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I am used to constructs with DR/adamantine, or DR/-, but not constructs with hardness.

Does this work just like an object's hardness, in that it is essentially DR/-, that is doubled against energy damage and ranged weapons that are not siege weapons (or rocket launchers)?

Robots are vulnerable to electricity and critical hits. This normally would mean that they take 150% damage from electricity, and are subject to the special effect described when a critical hit is scored against them. How does this interact with the hardness? I would say that electricity and critical hits bypass the hardness. Do you all think that's correct?

The Exchange

No, for a robots hardness, it only makes sense for it to just act like DR/-. Energy damage still does just its damage, then subtract for hardness. If it didn't work like that and instead did 1/2 damage, period and ranged attacks also do 1/2 then the lazer pistols would be doing 1/4 damage before factoring for hardness. Doesn't make much sense for the setting to design it like that so its clearly not rules as intended. If that was the case, robots would be all but invincible when fighting other robots.

Electricity will still do 150% damage but hardness is still subtracted from that number, same with crits, they still do damage but are subject to the creatures hardness.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I would say that lasers are just 1/2 damage (unless they critical) because they are energy attacks. Same with scorching ray. You do not want to use lasers on robots. Use an arc pistol/rifle instead.

If hardness were to be treated as DR/-, wouldn't the developers have given robots DR/- instead?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I guess another thing to note about robot hardness is that adamantine weapons bypass it if it is less than 20 (as per the rules for adamantine weapons).


Only objects take 1/2 damage from energy attacks. A robot having Hardness means it subtracts it's hardness from energy attacks as well as physical attacks, unlike DR, which only reduces physical attacks.

This means that a Robot would be very resistant to many types of tech firearms, since many of them do energy damage. The only one that would do enough damage would be electricity-based ones, since the robot's vulnerability would allow them to better bypass the hardness.

That being said, one could easily argue that, since a robot is specifically vulnerable to electricity, that its hardness doesn't apply to electricity. But no where in the rules does it state that.

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For example, say Creature #1 has DR 10/-, while Creature #2 has Hardness 10. Both are hit by a fireball, dealing 15 damage (And they both fail their saves). Creature #1 would take 15 damage, while Creature #2 would take only 5.

In that sense, it means that Hardness is like a combination of DR #/- and Resist Energy, all in one neat little package. Creature #2 in this example would effectively have Resist All 10 and DR 10/-.

At least, thats what I've gotten from reading up on this.


moon glum wrote:
I guess another thing to note about robot hardness is that adamantine weapons bypass it if it is less than 20 (as per the rules for adamantine weapons).

Yep! That too. Adamantine Weapons would work wonders against robots :D

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Correct; robots aren't objects and thus take full damage from energy attacks. Their hardness reduces damage done by 10 (or whatever), regardless of if it's energy damage or force damage or slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage or whatever. That's why it's not DR (which doesn't touch energy damage) or energy resistance (which doesn't touch slashing/bludgeoning/piercing damage).

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Correct; robots aren't objects and thus take full damage from energy attacks. Their hardness reduces damage done by 10 (or whatever), regardless of if it's energy damage or force damage or slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage or whatever. That's why it's not DR (which doesn't touch energy damage) or energy resistance (which doesn't touch slashing/bludgeoning/piercing damage).

Necroing this thread a little bit, but I just want to get one clarification. The Dwarf FCB for Brawler/Monk states "Reduce the hardness of any object made from clay, stone, or metal by 1 whenever the object is struck by the brawler’s unarmed strike (minimum 0)." Will this or will this not work against a robot to reduce their hardness?

Shadow Lodge

I would allow it in my game, but RAW it does say "object"


Unfortunately robots aren't objects:(

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Yup; won't work on robots on account of them not being objects. It's a fine rule to house rule, though... but I believe the idea is that the brawler is continually hitting the same spot on the object weaken it, and a robot is moving so you can't really strike with that level of accuracy.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

If robots aren't objects, then RAW would say that adamantine weapons won't ignore the hardness. You ignore hardness when sundering or attacking an object.

I guess I am wondering, from a designer perspective, is this a feature or a bug?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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John Spalding wrote:

If robots aren't objects, then RAW would say that adamantine weapons won't ignore the hardness. You ignore hardness when sundering or attacking an object.

I guess I am wondering, from a designer perspective, is this a feature or a bug?

A bug. The description of how adamantine weapons bypass hardness should say "...when attacking creatures or objects with hardness..." or the like.

Liberty's Edge

How are the robots threated against ranged weapons? i have the last couple of times played a archer and gunslinger nad both times my GM has halved the damage before hardness against those things, even when i used adamantine bullets did my damage get halved because they stated the robot are objects and thus halve all ranged and energy (This is in Society play)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Warrick Blackstone wrote:
How are the robots threated against ranged weapons? i have the last couple of times played a archer and gunslinger nad both times my GM has halved the damage before hardness against those things, even when i used adamantine bullets did my damage get halved because they stated the robot are objects and thus halve all ranged and energy (This is in Society play)

Robots are not objects. As such, you do not halve damage to them from ranged attacks.

Having hardness does NOT mean you're an object, nor do all objects have hardness.

Silver Crusade

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This thread didn't address one aspect of the original question, which is the interaction between hardness and electricity vulnerability. Do you only increase the portion of the damage that gets past hardness by 50%, or all of it first and then subtract hardness?

Silver Crusade

portion that gets past, similar to resistances + weaknesses. There are creatures that have resistance as well as weakness to fire amazingly enough, and that's how it works.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ayanzo wrote:
portion that gets past, similar to resistances + weaknesses. There are creatures that have resistance as well as weakness to fire amazingly enough, and that's how it works.

Do you have a citation for that? Because I run it the other way (vulnerability then hardness/resistance) because yours I feel is too punishing, and takes it too easy on the vulnerable creature.

Silver Crusade

Actually I don't, so I should rephrase it to that's what I believe is intended, there's no ruling for it. I see it akin to say protection and DR where it needs to bypass this threshold before it can even feel the effects. That's the logical positioning, and how I run it. I don't see it as punishing, but rather challenging for players. There's always disable construct for the especially difficult foes... if it can stick that is. But with heighten spell and the like, it will be a popular choice in terms of the nuclear option.

See

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lyfg?Protection-Resistance-and-Vulnerability

Oh, and Merry Christmas (or something else or nothing pending on association)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Rob McCreary says vulnerability then hardness, here


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Samy wrote:
Rob McCreary says vulnerability then hardness, here

Looks like Rob ignores hardness if there is vulnerability to the attack type. His example as to the warrior dolls having a DR. Fire does 150% damage, ignoring DR.

If so, then this would be a good premise to ignore DR for Robots when getting hit by electricity. Heck, looking at some of the robots vs the party at the levels, fighters get lucky to do any damage with their weapons, and a wizard would run out of electricity spells before the robot took any significant damage, assuming you used DR then the remaining damage x1.5

At least magic users can use 'jolt' do do some damage over time.

Shadow Lodge

I haven't seen this explicitly stated (here, or any other threads).

If the official word is that robots are creatures and not objects (thus none of the hardness rules pertaining to objects applies to them), does that mean...

Adamantine weapons convey no special ability to bypass hardness possessed by robots?

Adamantine Weapons wrote:
Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20.

The rules seem to suggest they only bypass hardness when used against weapons or objects. As robots are not not considered objects, am I to believe that adamantine weapons also have their damage reduced by the appropriate hardness?


@wakedown
Read the 13th post of this very thread, here.

Silver Crusade

I appologize.

In another thread i read something about being able to or not sunder a robot. Im guessing not allowed, because even though they have hardness they are not an object?

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

@Klokk: Yep. Just as you can't sunder a golem, a caryatid column, an animated object, or any other construct, unless the rules specifically allow for it.

The Exchange

wasn't there a rule that said that if you have a weapon with higher hardness rating than the creature/object, you bypass the listed hardness?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

James Jacobs wrote:
Correct; robots aren't objects and thus take full damage from energy attacks. Their hardness reduces damage done by 10 (or whatever), regardless of if it's energy damage or force damage or slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage or whatever. That's why it's not DR (which doesn't touch energy damage) or energy resistance (which doesn't touch slashing/bludgeoning/piercing damage).

Darn, so Magic Missile (a force effect) is not a bypass. :(

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