Super Wisdom Monk / Warpriest


Advice

1 to 50 of 52 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, under the assumption that the unarmored bonus to AC from Monk, and Sacred Fist Warpriest stack, and the Guided weapon property is available, how best to maximize it's potential?

Let's assume, 15 Point Buy, and Core Races+ Tiefling/Aasimar allowed.

Thoughts?


15 point buy seems pretty low for a theoretical build, as most games seem to be 20 or 25.

But a Plumekith aasimar who rolled/chose 50 on the variant ability table would have +2 Dex, +4 Wis for racial ability modifiers. A Faultspawn tiefling who got/rolled a 90 on the variant ability table would have +2 Dex, +4 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence for racial modifiers.

Aasimar has the advantage of no stat penalties, which is great for low point buy games. Resistances are nice, too.

Tiefling has advantage of being able to grab Prehensile Tail, Scaled Skin (with fire resist), and Fiendish Sprinter.

The Snake Style feats key off Sense Motive checks, which will be really high with a Wis build. Might be worth going for a Lawbringer aasimar instead, for the racial skill bonus.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I have many games that use 15.

So, for me, I use it as a base.

Also, the "rolled variant abilities" of Aasimar/Tieflings have never been allowed, in any game I have played in. I doubt they would in the future, and likely it would be the same for anyone else.

Silver Crusade

MOMS 1/Brawler X

1. fuse Dragon Style and Pummelling Style
2. Win
3. Roll less broken character.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Skyler Malik wrote:

MOMS 1/Brawler X

1. fuse Dragon Style and Pummelling Style
2. Win
3. Roll less broken character.

I am not sure how that combines the Monk, Sacred Fist Warpriest, and the Guided enchantment.

Silver Crusade

Edit. Fine....

MOMS 1/War Priest 1/Brawler X.

Happy?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I will show what I am talking about:

Curse of the Crimson Throne Chapter 4: A History of Ashes wrote:

Guided

Aura: moderate evocation CL 7th
Slot: weapon quality; Price +1 bonus; Weight —
Description
A weapon with the guided property allows its wielder to use his instinct when striking blows with it. Attacks from a guided weapon generally don’t strike hard, but they strike at precisely the right moment to maximize damage if in the hands of a particularly wise wielder. A character who attacks with a guided weapon modifies his attack rolls and weapon damage rolls with his Wisdom modifier, not his Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is not adjusted for two-handed weapons or off-hand weapons—it always remains equal to the wielder’s Wisdom modifier. A guided weapon may be wielded as a normal weapon, using Strength to modify attack and damage rolls, but this goes against the weapon’s nature and imparts a –2 penalty on all attack rolls made in this manner.
Construction
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spiritual weapon;


dwarf with Two weapon fighting with a Dwarven double waraxe and a boulder helmet.


Headbands of Wisdom are a must. If you get an Amulet of Mighty Fists(Guided) you're unarmed attacks will use Wisdom for damage.

Dark Archive

There are a bunch of Tiefling variant heritages that give Wisdom, so it's totally a valid option. Not being able to get Enlarge Person'd might be kind of lame, but if you're not focusing on Strength, that's actually probably for the better.

Dwarf would actually be a really solid option, too. You'd be kinda slow compared to other Sacred Fists, but it's probably not the end of the world.


Scion of humanity solves the Enlarge Person issues.

Dark Archive

That's an Aasimar thing, though. I mean, I could see a DM allowing a Tiefling version (I would allow it), but that's a homebrew deal.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Azten wrote:
Headbands of Wisdom are a must. If you get an Amulet of Mighty Fists(Guided) you're unarmed attacks will use Wisdom for damage.

That was one thought I had.


Seranov wrote:
That's an Aasimar thing, though. I mean, I could see a DM allowing a Tiefling version (I would allow it), but that's a homebrew deal.

Just pointing out that if enlarge person was a sticking point, there are 3 varieties of wisdom aasimars that could use it.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I will show what I am talking about:

Curse of the Crimson Throne Chapter 4: A History of Ashes wrote:

Guided

Aura: moderate evocation CL 7th
Slot: weapon quality; Price +1 bonus; Weight —
Description
A weapon with the guided property allows its wielder to use his instinct when striking blows with it. Attacks from a guided weapon generally don’t strike hard, but they strike at precisely the right moment to maximize damage if in the hands of a particularly wise wielder. A character who attacks with a guided weapon modifies his attack rolls and weapon damage rolls with his Wisdom modifier, not his Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is not adjusted for two-handed weapons or off-hand weapons—it always remains equal to the wielder’s Wisdom modifier. A guided weapon may be wielded as a normal weapon, using Strength to modify attack and damage rolls, but this goes against the weapon’s nature and imparts a –2 penalty on all attack rolls made in this manner.
Construction
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spiritual weapon;

I wish this was PFS legal but I think it's prohibited because they think it's too strong. Which is unfortunate because it's cool.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I just figured there was potential for a Wisdom-based martial PC.

Well, with a little Divine casting.

Dark Archive

Without the Guided enchant, the concept is going to fall flat on its face. It's the same problem Monks have: they can either build for defense or damage, but not both. A high-Wis Sacred Fist of Irori (or other god whose favored weapon is Unarmed Strikes) can use Guided Hand, but since your Str won't be as high, you won't do nearly as much damage. And it'll be like, level 7 before that comes online, because you need to get Channel Smite first (at 5, the first time you get a feat after getting Channel).

So it's a nice theory. Imagine double-dipping Wis to AC with 20+ Wisdom. Delicious. That's assuming your DM/PFS decides they stack, though.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Not the Guided Hand feat, but the Guided weapon enchantment, as outlined above.


So I was trying to build something similar yesterday using the chassis of hungry ghost/sensei monk and Sacred fist warpriest.

The idea was to use a super high crit weapon (I was fishing for the katana and Shizuru (to get the repose domain), but the feats don't fall easily into place (EWP is a drag), so I advise scimitar instead with Seranrae.

Start with a super high wis (as you say) and a decent strength. Might have to pull some shennanigans to do that. Middle Aged Aasimar with Touch of Immortality might be better for that (to start with a 20 wisdom that is).

Hmm, here is a 10th level character I mocked up:

Sylar
Male Aasimar Monk (Hungry Ghost Monk, Sensei, Qinggong Monk) 6/Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 4 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 0)
LG Medium outsider (human, native)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +21
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 36, touch 31, flat-footed 33 (+2 armor, +2 Dex, +3 natural, +1 deflection, +1 dodge, +17 untyped)
hp 82 (10d8+20)
Fort +13, Ref +10, Will +19; +2 vs. death, +2 bonus vs. enchantment spells and effects
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 keen ki focus scimitar +17/+12 (Flurry +18/+18/+13) (1d6+5/15-20) and
. . unarmed strike +15/+10 (+16/+16/+11) (1d10+3)
Special Attacks inspire competence +2, inspire courage +2, flurry of blows, ki flurry, ki speed, ki strike, cold iron/silver, ki strike, lawful, ki strike, magic, steal ki, channel positive energy 5/day (DC 20, 1d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 10th; concentration +10)
. . 1/day—lesser age resistance
. . —barkskin (self only, 1 ki)
. . —scorching ray (2 ki)
Warpriest (Sacred Fist) Spells Prepared (CL 6th; concentration +14):
. . 2nd—lesser restoration, owl's wisdom (2)
. . 1st—bless, divine favor (2), moment of greatness{super}UC{/super}, protection from evil
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light, read magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 26, Cha 10
Base Atk +7; CMB +12; CMD 41
Feats Crusader's Flurry[UC], Dazing Fist, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Lingering Performance[APG], Power Attack, Punishing Kick[APG], Weapon Focus (scimitar)
Traits heirloom weapon (proficiency), magical knack
Skills Acrobatics +15, Linguistics +12, Perception +21, Perform (oratory) +13, Sense Motive +21
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Celestial, Common, Daemonic, Elven, Gnome, Infernal, Sylvan, Tien
SQ advice, aura, blessed fortitude, blessings, blessings (good blessing, repose blessing), fervor 1d6, gentle rest, holy strike, immortal spark, insightful strike, ki defense, ki pool, maneuver training, mystic wisdom, scion of humanity, unarmed strike
Other Gear +1 keen ki focus scimitar, scimitar, belt of physical perfection +2, bracers of armor +2, cloak of resistance +2, headband of inspired wisdom +4, 3,820 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Advice (14 rounds/day) (Ex) A sensei's advice is identical to bardic performance (using oratory), allowing him to inspire courage at 1st level, inspire competence at 3rd level, and inspire greatness at 9th level, as a bard of the sensei's level, usable a total number of rounds
Advice: Inspire Competence +2 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Advice: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Aura (Ex) The character has a strong aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Barkskin (self only, 1 Ki) (Sp) Self Only. Costs 1 ki point to activate.
Blessed Fortitude (Su) If you succeed at a Fort save for partial effect, take none instead.
Blessings (5/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Crusader's Flurry May use flurry of blows with deity's favored melee weapon
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Dazing Fist (DC 23) You can daze an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Fervor 1d6 (10/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Flurry of Blows +12/+12/+7/+7/+2 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Gentle Rest (Su) Touched living foe is staggered 1 rd (8 rds if undead). Sleep if already staggered.
Holy Strike (Su) Touched weapon deals +1d6 dam vs. evil foes for 1 min.
Immortal Spark You gain +2 to saves vs death.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Insightful Strike (Ex) At 2nd level, a sensei may use his Wisdom bonus in lieu of his Strength or Dexterity on attack rolls and combat maneuver checks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. This ability replaces evasion and the bonus feat gained at 2nd level.
Ki Defense +4 (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action, to gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 rd.
Ki Flurry (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to gain an extra Flurry of Blows attack.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Speed (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to increase speed by 20 ft for 1 rd.
Ki Strike, Cold Iron/Silver (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Lawful (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as lawful to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Lingering Performance Bardic Performances last 2 rds after you stop concentrating.
Magical Knack (Warpriest [Sacred Fist]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Mystic Wisdom (Su) At 6th level, a sensei may use his advice ability when spending points from his ki pool to activate a class ability (using the normal actions required for each) in order to have that ability affect one ally within 30 feet rather than the sense
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Punishing Kick (Push 5', 7/day, DC 23) You can push or knock down an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Scion of Humanity Count as a human for any effect related to race. Pass as human without using disguise.
Scorching Ray (2 Ki) (Sp) Costs 2 ki points to activate.
Steal Ki (Ex) If you confirm a critical or reduce a living enemy to 0 HP or less, restore 1 Ki point.
Unarmed Strike (1d10) Extra unarmed strike dam, no off-hand dam reduction and don't need free hands to att.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (5/day, DC 20) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.

Sylar can steal ki on a crit and buff his allies with his "bardic music". Also has a good range of buffing spells to choose from (castable as a swift action) and ki abilities (barkskin for even more AC and scorching ray for some ranged punch).

Also, the Super AC and To hit from being a wisdom focused character.

prototype00

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, the key part of the Guided property, is that it allows you to use Wisdom for Attack and Damage rolls.


Yeah, no doubt. Herolab doesn't list it since it isn't a PF (ish?) resource, but you can just tack on your wis mod to the damage there.

prototype00

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, things like Sensei don't seem worth it, if you are already using Dex to hit.


What? No, Sensei allows you to use your wis to hit without wasting a feat on Channel Smite. (It allows you to use your wis with Monk weapons, and Crusader's Flurry makes the scimitar a monk weapon).

prototype00

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I am saying, that with a Guided weapon, or Guided Amulet of Mighty Fists, you need not have to be a Sensei, or have the Guided Hand feat.

Are you still confusing the Guided enchantment, with the Guided Hand feat?


Ah, right, the guided enhancement allows you to use your wis bonus to hit. Sorry, my mistake. I thought it just allowed you to use it for damage.

Man, no wonder they don't allow it these days. :)

prototype00

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Indeed.

This is why I was trying to see about putting it all together.

Scarab Sages

prototype00 wrote:

Yeah, no doubt. Herolab doesn't list it since it isn't a PF (ish?) resource, but you can just tack on your wis mod to the damage there.

prototype00

HeroLab does list it though. You need to have the Curse of the Crimson Throne dataset checked when you configure your hero.

Sovereign Court

blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, under the assumption that the unarmored bonus to AC from Monk, and Sacred Fist Warpriest stack,

Do they stack though?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
OilHorse wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, under the assumption that the unarmored bonus to AC from Monk, and Sacred Fist Warpriest stack,
Do they stack though?

It's sort of in the air.

Liberty's Edge

You have a very odd set of assumptions, highly favorable magic item (which is not in pathfinder proper, just 3.5) and the same ability stacking with itself with very unfavorable assumptions of a 15 point buy.

My build would probably be dwarf monk 1, warpriest X. I doubt the gains from monk 2 would be worth the loss of a caster level.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, my assumptions are based off the 6 to 7 DMs, I usually game with.

How would put together this Dwarf Monk1/Warpriest X?

Would you pick a particular Monk archetype?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

could be a MoMS monk going jaguar style, the high AC will make you safe for the most part.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Jaguar Style?

Do you mean Tiger Style?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My personal Sacred Fist is going to be a Dwarf Monk 2/Warpriest X. With Magical Knack, it takes a decent amount of the hurt out of the two Monk levels, while also giving a handful of really good bonuses AND a second style feat for free (Fusing Pummeling and Dragon Style and also having Pummeling Charge by level 3? Yes!) and some other stuff that might be nice, too.


I could never multiclass with WP, the loss of BAB is already killer losing more is really a nail in the coffin for multiclassing to me.


Even if they have full BaB when they flurry, and have full BaB when they charge due to pummeling style (basically full BaB all the time)?

prototype00


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Jaguar Style?

Do you mean Tiger Style?

Panther, I always make this mistake too.


prototype00 wrote:

Even if they have full BaB when they flurry, and have full BaB when they charge due to pummeling style (basically full BaB all the time)?

prototype00

They do not have full BAB they have full -1 because monk levels don't stack for the purposes of flurry. It also delays your FoB progression by 1-2 levels and spell casting progression, and fervor progression, and blessings progression.

Dark Archive

Undone wrote:
prototype00 wrote:

Even if they have full BaB when they flurry, and have full BaB when they charge due to pummeling style (basically full BaB all the time)?

prototype00

They do not have full BAB they have full -1 because monk levels don't stack for the purposes of flurry. It also delays your FoB progression by 1-2 levels and spell casting progression, and fervor progression, and blessings progression.

A 2-level MoMS monk doesn't get Flurry, but it does give +1 BAB. So it's a 1 BAB loss overall (which you'd take if you dipped Monk at all as a Warpriest, so it's hardly a big deal beyond Caster Level loss, which can be circumvented with Magical Knack (Warpriest)) for some stuff that's worthwhile - like double Wis to AC, bonus style feats w/o prereqs, evasion (or toughness if you're a monk of the sacred mountain), +3 to all saves and 4 extra skill points.

While it's true that a Warpriest's spellcasting is already delayed, those two levels of Monk really don't hurt you all that much. The Sacred Fist is really a martial first and a spellcaster second.


Seranov give me an idea please about level progression with your Dwarf Monk2/Warpriest. 20 point build

Dark Archive

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rdrl?Dwarven-Sacred-Fist-Warpriest#20

This is my plan for mine. Full details for deity/blessings in the first post of that thread.


Thank you


blackbloodtroll wrote:
OilHorse wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, under the assumption that the unarmored bonus to AC from Monk, and Sacred Fist Warpriest stack,
Do they stack though?
It's sort of in the air.

I honestly wouldn't make that assumption by default, common sense clause, while the warpriest doesn't share a parent class with the monk, its still the same named ability, the same stat to the same score, and is more closely now a hybridization of cleric/monk, and should follow the hybrid class rule of clone features not stacking unless specified, the warpriests AC Bonus feature doesn't specify it stacking with the monk's so it shouldn't, at most it could maybe continue to progress it, but not double dip the wisdom, no way.


A level of Unarmed Fighter isn't bad. +1BAB, free style feat, ALL monk weapons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Sneaky Snake wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
OilHorse wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, under the assumption that the unarmored bonus to AC from Monk, and Sacred Fist Warpriest stack,
Do they stack though?
It's sort of in the air.
I honestly wouldn't make that assumption by default, common sense clause, while the warpriest doesn't share a parent class with the monk, its still the same named ability, the same stat to the same score, and is more closely now a hybridization of cleric/monk, and should follow the hybrid class rule of clone features not stacking unless specified, the warpriests AC Bonus feature doesn't specify it stacking with the monk's so it shouldn't, at most it could maybe continue to progress it, but not double dip the wisdom, no way.

Well, one of the abilities is (Su), whilst the other is (Ex), and they both have different names.

So, untyped bonus, from two different sources. They both use the same ability score to determine what that bonus is, but the ability score is not the source.


Its SUPER unclear right now how they (and a school of other abilities) function. Paizo really needs to make a ruling on this ASAP as it affects so many different builds right now. Please go here and look at what Nefreet posted, and thats not even a comprehensive list! Then go to the top and FAQ it so we can get an answer on this someday. Its been needing an answer for months at least, but now with the tech guide/acg there are even more issues so hopefully we can get some clarification soon.

I'm in the school that all the untyped ability score generated bonuses should stack personally, though the dex to damage twice combo and dex to ac twice combos are very strong! They are really the only two "broken" ones though and most the other feats/abilities are totally worthless if they don't work as intended.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, I have full confidence that at least 4, of the 6 to 7 DMs I game with, will be fine with it.

Lot of Monk fans.


I think that all the posts that start with this assumption need to add a disclaimer. Something like, "Assuming, for the moment, that these things statck..." Just so the threads don't get derailed into further debates on it. Maybe add to the disclaimer the link that Under a Bleeding Sun posted stating, "If you would like to discuss whether or not this works or not please follow this link and click FAQ."

Personally per RAW I am for it working. From a balance perspective though... I dunno, it is pretty strong. I can't think that something so obvious was an oversight though, so perhaps it is intended. I dunno, I'm on the fence.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Actually, the noting of it being an assumption, is in the original post.

You will see it starts with "So, under the assumption...".

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I do like the Dwarf for this though.

1 to 50 of 52 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Super Wisdom Monk / Warpriest All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.