Yes you can, assuming you have a valid way to have that many arms your attack would be:
sword at 12
sword at 7
sword at 2
claw at 7
claw at 7
claw at 7
claw at 7
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
Natural attack
Now my question about your example is how are you having 6 hands and 4 claws? because there could be issues there with what you're trying to do.
Note- since all natural weapons become secondary when mixed with manufactured weapons, all those claws will only deal 1/2 str and power attack damage.
Now my question about your example is how are you having 6 hands and 4 claws? because there could be issues there with what you're trying to do.
I believe it's obvious he means that he has 6 clawed hands, and he is using 2 of them for his two-handed weapon, leaving 4 claws left to attack with.
How he got them is not really important to us (that's for the GM to audit), all that matters is being able to use the rules to explain the mechanics.
Well, I was just thinking that there might have been something in the way he got them that could explain why the GM was ruling that way. I can't think of anything that would do that, but I thought it was something to check.
So I see that as only granting two claws, where are you getting the other two from?
Also you're only large with Monstrous Physique 2, The abyssal enlarging is like enlarge person, so it's a polymorph effect just like MP2. So they don't overlap to give you huge or better claws.
Also on the side of your GM, it seems like you know the rules better or have played more then they do. And so they feel that things that are "too strong" must me against the rules. Go easy on them. Rule mastery leads to strong things that others feel can't be right.
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Pretty sure every such ability assumes the baseline: a creature with two arms. Creatures with more arms than that are very rare, and thus, would likely only give 2 claw attacks.
I'm pretty sure the normal Barbarian or Sorcerer equivalents specifically state they give you two claw attacks, and that is likely the intention for this power, as well.
Claws (Su): At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging.
These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you
to make two claw attacks as a full attack, using your full
base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d6 points of damage
each (1d4 if you are Small) plus your Strength modifier. At
4th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the
purpose of overcoming damage resistance. At 8th level, the
damage increases to 1d8 points (1d6 if you are Small). At
12th level, these claws become f laming weapons, which deal
an additional 1d6 points of fire damage on a hit.
It says only 2 claws.
Demonic Bulk (Su): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage,
you can choose to grow one size category larger than your
base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren’t humanoid.
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
From my own research, it is just not worth it to mix weapons with natural attacks unless you are relying on other modifiers, such as sneak attack, energy etc.
As for Demonic Bulk, i thought since it was a Supernatural ability and not a spell that they could stack since one wasn't a spell.
It is a supernatural ability, but it's says you're enlarged as enlarge person even if you're not humanoid. So it works as enlarge person except it doesn't have the humanoid restriction and lasts for your rage.
Since it says as enlarge person it uses all rules that applies to enlarge person.
From my own research, it is just not worth it to mix weapons with natural attacks unless you are relying on other modifiers, such as sneak attack, energy etc.
I'm curious as to why not? I can understand not giving up a weapon attack for a natural attack, but from a purely mechanical point of view they are otherwise free extra attacks. Even if they only hit half as often for a fraction of the damage it's all 'free'.
From my own research, it is just not worth it to mix weapons with natural attacks unless you are relying on other modifiers, such as sneak attack, energy etc.I'm curious as to why not? I can understand not giving up a weapon attack for a natural attack, but from a purely mechanical point of view they are otherwise free extra attacks. Even if they only hit half as often for a fraction of the damage it's all 'free'.
If you meant extra 'free' attacks, its ok. I was under the impression that the weapon attacks are added in.
Simple scenario:
4 arms all natural: Str mod 1x each, total 4x str mod
2 weapon 4 natural: Str mod 1x for weapon, 0.5 for natural, total 2+(4x0.5)= total str mod of 4x
With the second scenario hitting at much lesser accuracy.
I'm curious what level you are and how you are hitting 40 str.
From my own research, it is just not worth it to mix weapons with natural attacks unless you are relying on other modifiers, such as sneak attack, energy etc.I'm curious as to why not? I can understand not giving up a weapon attack for a natural attack, but from a purely mechanical point of view they are otherwise free extra attacks. Even if they only hit half as often for a fraction of the damage it's all 'free'.If you meant extra 'free' attacks, its ok. I was under the impression that the weapon attacks are added in.
Simple scenario:
4 arms all natural: Str mod 1x each, total 4x str mod
2 weapon 4 natural: Str mod 1x for weapon, 0.5 for natural, total 2+(4x0.5)= total str mod of 4x
With the second scenario hitting at much lesser accuracy.
My build, with the corrections based on the rules clarifications, would look like this: I morph into a four-armed gargoyle, then start rage, which grows a pair of 1d8 flaming claws (2D6 since i'm large). I can then hit, using my STR mod of +15 (Yes, i manage to hit 40 STR easy while I rage), I full round attack using my +2 Vicious, Furious, Courageous Falchion at 31/26/21 for a total of 12D6 + 78 if all attacks hit. Then I would get 2 claw attacks and 1 Bite and 1 Gore at 26/26/26 for a total of 1D8, 4D6, 2D6 flaming, 1D4 + 28 if all of them hit. That is WITHOUT any bonuses from an Amulet of Mighty Fists which I will get.
So a full round gets me 1D8, 18D6, 1D4 + 106 total.
All that without Haste, without AOMF, without using Power Attack, without any other boosts other than what i get from my sword and other non-combat related equipment.
EDIT: I am wondering if it's worth going with Abyssal bloodline or if i'd be better off going a different route. I get claws i use only a little bit, but gargoyles already have some (But not as good) and my Demonic Bulk isn't useful if i morph into a gargoyle. So should i stay Abyssal and go Gargoyle, stay Abyssal and just...
Assuming you have 40 str, replacing the weapon for +1 furious AoMF for a base of +3 when raging. And assuming using the 2 other arms to do claws attacks for a base of +18.
Claw 2d6+18 x4, Bite 2d6 +18, 1d4 Gore +18
(10d6, 2d6 flaming, 1d4)+108 at full bab of (im assuming lv20 bab+str+aomf) 20+15+3 = 38
Comparing the damage range, you are doing 123-223 with weapon, while with full natural attacks it can reach 121-184, not counting crit chance.
Cost for a +5 weapon enchant is 50,000 while a +1 furious AoMF is 16,000. The leftover gold can be dropped into other strength enhancing items, or even a tentacle cloak that adds another 2 more 1d6 secondary natural attack.
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I have only been playing Pathfinder for a month, but i've spent 50 hours reading up on rules specific to the build i'm trying to create over the last week. He's been a GM for Pathfinder for years.
Also on the side of your GM, it seems like you know the rules better or have played more then they do. And so they feel that things that are "too strong" must me against the rules. Go easy on them. Rule mastery leads to strong things that others feel can't be right.
Before trying to apply the "great" build that you have found on Internet it is a good idea to learn the basic rules.
As it has been explained you can't mix two polymorph effects on the same character, even if they are from supernatural abilities.
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the build did violate some other rule. The Internet is great to find information, but the errors are repeated as often as the valid informations, so you need to check if the build is valid comparing it to the actual rules.
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A rapid check give me a maximum strength of 39 while raging under the influence of monstrous physique II and with a +6 strength item. You have some inherent bonus to strength?
Or you are getting some bonus to strength from other sources?
Note that two or more enhancement bonus to strength don't stack, even if one is Ex or Su.
yes natural weapons count as melee.
...From my own research, it is just not worth it to mix weapons with natural attacks unless you are relying on other modifiers, such as sneak attack, energy etc.I'm curious as to why not? I can understand not giving up a weapon attack for a natural attack, but from a purely mechanical point of view they are otherwise free extra attacks. Even if they only hit half as often for a fraction of the damage it's all 'free'.If you meant extra 'free' attacks, its ok. I was under the impression that the weapon attacks are added in.
Simple scenario:
4 arms all natural: Str mod 1x each, total 4x str mod
2 weapon 4 natural: Str mod 1x for weapon, 0.5 for natural, total 2+(4x0.5)= total str mod of 4x
With the second scenario hitting at much lesser accuracy.
My build, with the corrections based on the rules clarifications, would look like this: I morph into a four-armed gargoyle, then start rage, which grows a pair of 1d8 flaming claws (2D6 since i'm large). I can then hit, using my STR mod of +15 (Yes, i manage to hit 40 STR easy while I rage), I full round attack using my +2 Vicious, Furious, Courageous Falchion at 31/26/21 for a total of 12D6 + 78 if all attacks hit. Then I would get 2 claw attacks and 1 Bite and 1 Gore at 26/26/26 for a total of 1D8, 4D6, 2D6 flaming, 1D4 + 28 if all of them hit. That is WITHOUT any bonuses from an Amulet of Mighty Fists which I will get.
So a full round gets me 1D8, 18D6, 1D4 + 106 total.
All that without Haste, without AOMF, without using Power Attack, without any other boosts other than what i get from my sword and other non-combat related equipment.
EDIT: I am wondering if it's worth going with Abyssal bloodline or if i'd be better off going a different route. I get claws i use only a little bit, but gargoyles already have some (But not as good) and my Demonic Bulk isn't useful if i morph into a gargoyle. So
Just curious, you mentioned Orc bloodrager, I assume its abyssal bloodrager with sorc's orc bloodline eldritch heritage?
Are u also going Primalist, which allows swapping of bloodrager bloodline powers for barbarian's rage powers?
I think he's saying he's playing as an Orc race bloodrager class.
I think he's saying he's playing as an Orc race bloodrager class.
Ahh, u are right, i also mistakenly thought that Raging Brutality is a rage power.