Difficulty of S&S


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


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Just curious, those of you who have played S&S, how do you feel about the difficulty? My wife and I have played through the first 4 scenarios, and have found S&S to be far more challenging from the get-go than RotR. We failed two scenarios due to running out of blessings, one of which because our Magus was killed by a Siren Caller. Including that previous death, we have had two characters die. I was wondering if anyone else was having a similar experience.

Also, I was expecting S&S to be more difficult, but the difficult out of the gate surprised me. I was expecting the beginning experience to be similar to RotR to ease people into playing, and ramp up later in the game to account for the gear that you are acquiring. I am not upset with it, though, in fact, I like it a little. I felt that until adventure 6 RotR was a little too easy. Like I said, earlier, I was just a little surprised by it.


It's noticeably more difficult, in my opinion, but two scenarios stand out in particular: Rum Punch and Press Ganged.

I suppose Rum Punch isn't that bad if you have a charismatic party, but if you're not, it can get pretty brutal. I got lucky with my group since she ended up at the last location deck, but if you keep encountering her early without being prepared, it gets difficult to consistently make a diplomacy 13 check.

Press Ganged is the only failed scenario I've had. You only start with a hand size of 1, so when the first card we found was Pirate Hunting, forcing us to go against the Wormwood every turn. The only hope we had was both getting blessings, and when we finally wasted enough turns getting blessing for both characters, we still ended up failing the roll to defeat. The second time, we fought a henchman right away, letting our hand size go up, and it become considerably more manageable.


I agree. I am on the 2nd scenario for the third time with a party of 6 (highest CHA D8+1). The allies mostly have relatively high acquire values ~7+ which makes it tough to support the fight with the villain.

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I just soloed Rum Punch last night with Jirelle (d8 Cha). I only ended up with 2 allies "reserved" but I had managed to pull a gem of Dexterity and I had the eyepatch that adds d4 to defeat a bane, so I ended up with 2d10+d4+2 having used a blessing and with a reroll of one die. It was tough but manageable. The villain did wipe my hand the first time she came up though - at that time I only had a bunch of weapons and a Captain so my d8+zilch wasn't going to cut it.

Once you see her card(and I don't read the villain pre-scenario myself) you realize that you're going to need to accumulate Cha bonuses. There really aren't a lot of monsters in the scenario so you can focus more on talking than killing in maintaining your hand composition. I literally kept armor in my hand just to "hard evade" a couple monsters while sifting through the last location for the villain while I otherwise had the perfect Cha setup.

If your entire deck is about killing things, this scenario is your wake up call that such a deck is not as optimal in this AP. The developers aren't kidding when they say that you'll need to be more well-rounded this time.


I was just making sure that it wasn't only my wife and I that were seeing it. We usually play pretty balanced classes in general, but also like to support each other, and we are still having a difficult time.

On another note, I think that some of the boons and characters have been made in such a way that it allows the general difficulty level to be higher. The gems that allow you to roll a different die and re-rolling a die are some of the things that come to mind.


Given that is would be impossible to remove subconscious bias, no matter how hard anyone tried... I'm curious as an opinion, does anyone who's played feel that S&S is simply harder than it should be? If you had never played RotR to compare, would the challenge level for S&S be considered too hard for mass audience?


Deekow, I think it really depends on the person. I like my experience to be a little more difficult, actually. That being said, I think that the difficulty may be a little too difficult for the base adventure. I think that no matter the focus of the adventure path, the base experience should ease people into the game and teach them how to play. I think that the first few scenarios are more punishing than they should be to teach players the game. For some people, this will be their first experience with the game, and it might make some people shy away. However, if your first experiences are with RotR, then you might like what you are getting yourself into.

If you have played, how do you feel about it?


I have not, yet. Personally, I'm all for the increased challenge. And honestly, from RotR, I found Brigandoom! to be one of the greatest challenges coming out the gate, especially for new players. Without any feats and every card being Basic, it can be very rough. Poison Pill would have been a better start, and Black Fang's feels just right at the end of the prologue. The nature of the PACG beast definitely leaves the difficulty curve across scenarios to be nothing short of a chaotic scribble on a chart, for sure.

My interest in this is that I love getting new players to play and have rounded up some interest in OP at my FLGS. I'd actually like to use the S&S campaign as both the teaching game, as well as potentially recruit to my home campaign game.

One of the loudest complaints of RotR (by others), was that it was too easy. I'm hoping this is just a "well now it's not!", instead of creating a situation where the mass feedback is going to be that it's too challenging to play.

We'll see. I just mostly wanted to get a sense of whether it's just comparison, or difficult on it's own meter.


I find RotR comfortably challenging. For our group, it isn't too easy. We play rarely, but both groups took more than two try on the first two scenarios in the base set. Granted, people were still learning the rules, but after the second try, most everyone had things basically figured out, and we've had some close calls, some failures, but nobody has died yet as we play it safe. Playing by myself still took a second try on the first scenario (when I was learning how to play).

But I have seen posts here and at BGG of people saying that they never lost a scenario while also playing as if they had 6 people (using 8 locations) whether playing just 1 character or 5 and the game was still way too easy. (Concerning the playing more locations: more locations = more possible boons = higher 'level' decks early on, which throws off balance anyway.)

So I'd have to agree that it depends on the person as far as what's easy and what's not, as well as the randomness of things. I'd say it also depends on if the person 'knows' the rules or actually knows the rules.

As far as what I mean by 'know' compared to know; in compiling the data for the characters at midpoint, of the 397 entries I collected from here and over at BGG, 68 of them had issues (they weren't following the rules) and 10 had possible issues.

68 out of 397 is a whopping 17%; that's almost 1/5 of the characters.


As one of the 17%, you shouldn't confuse the people who made an error in data entry with people who screw up the rules to make the game easier.


Even if half of that group had data entry errors as opposed to actually misinterpretation of the rules, that still means over 8% was actually playing the game in a way not intended. Sadly, as with all data collection, data entry errors either don't get caught because they still make sense, or they end up making it look like something was wrong when it wasn't; being the one compiling the data, the only info you really have to go on is the data itself.

All my statement was about is that the game's difficulty really depends on each person's own thoughts as well as whether they truly are playing the game as intended or not, and there are some people that think they're playing the game as intended, not realizing that they're not, and that ends up changing their experiences.

It's just like the data, what they know is what they know, but it's all they have to go on.


It could come down to strategy. Truly optimized builds and playstyles will have a much easier time than Joe Schmo playing a melee Ezren. That's pretty extreme, but still. And universal trading/deck building card game strategies can help a lot. It still astounds me when I see people not understanding how powerful draw power is (not just Resto, guys - having a larger hand size is also important, within reason, for instance). And knowing when to just let a card go... holding onto an armor in case you lose a check is one thing, but if you're auto-killing half the monsters you find before dice are even rolled, you'd be better served with an explore card in hand; also, just be willing to let the loot go! There's no reason to hold onto loot if you don't want it, even if you can't get it again later. I could go on... for instance, it can be BETTER to have some cards buried, or to not acquire that ally even though it would let you explore, but... Yeah.

(Not that I'm calling anyone out singularly - I'm just saying that it wouldn't surprise me if the difficulty contention is just a result of better vs worse strategy)

Hmmm... This makes me want to write up a strategy guide, kind of.


As a playtester, I can say that the increased difficulty is absolutely intended. There are, however, a few things to note about the difficulty: (again these are just my opnions, so feel free to debate any or all of these!)

1) In RotR, you could be generally very successful by building your character to focus on mostly one ability. This is completely false in S&S. You'll still need to plan for combat (and the combat may well be more difficult than you experienced in RotR) but you would be unwise to specialize in it. This is one reason that the Magus turned out to be one of my least favorite characters in S&S (he dies 3 times in my play-testing until I finally abandoned him altogether and went with Damiel instead). Try to build up your allies and items in particular to help deal with skill like constitution, craft, etc. because you'll see those checks a LOT.

2) This is just my opinion, but I found certain characters to just not work well in S&S. I wasn't able to find much success with the Magus, the witch and surprisingly, Merisiel and Lini. Others found them decent enough, but depending on your playstyle and the way you think, some characters will probably have to stay in the box.

3) Do NOT underestimate allies like the Captain and Old Salt. They may not look like much, but both of these became almost essential for my characters in later chapters.

4) There will be LOTS of barriers. Be prepared for that. The barriers in S&S are often not strongly tied to Dexterity the way they were in RotR. In fact, other than ranged characters, I found Dexterity to only show up in check for the various (and infrequent) trap barriers.

5) Bring armor from the start whenever possible. You're going to need it, early and often. The same applies to healing. Even with those two, there will be times they won't be enough.


Deekow wrote:
Given that is would be impossible to remove subconscious bias, no matter how hard anyone tried... I'm curious as an opinion, does anyone who's played feel that S&S is simply harder than it should be? If you had never played RotR to compare, would the challenge level for S&S be considered too hard for mass audience?

Yes. But again, the difficulty is intended by the designers. Remember too, that there was a lot of noise generated about RotR being too easy (especially in the early chapters). The difficulty is, at least in part, the designers responding to that feedback. Given that WotR is in the works now, it's important that people who do NOT like the increased difficulty speak up.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Orbis Orboros wrote:
Hmmm... This makes me want to write up a strategy guide, kind of.

I've thought about it too! Or at least a few blog posts.

My wife and I are among the "too easy crowd," and I've said before on these boards we played Kyra+Meri and Lem+Seoni duos through 6 locations in almost every scenario, including the Death Zone one. Once we got some obvious blunders sorted out early on, I'm reasonably confident we didn't make a lot of rules mistakes, outside of missing a location closing effect here and there, or forgetting to summon a beginning of turn bandit once or twice, but I'm sure that's about balanced by the all the times we forgot to use Mokmurian's Club's power, for example. :D

Consider me excited that the diversity of checks is up in S&S (and that armor has more immediate value). Putting every skill point into Dexterity (or Charisma) to cover 90% of your combat and utility needs at once always felt too rote. By the same token, consider me bummed that Dexterity, and therefore probably Disable, is going to be less useful, especially now that so many characters have it that I wouldn't feel like I'm losing something by not playing Meri.


Dave Riley wrote:
By the same token, consider me bummed that Dexterity, and therefore probably Disable, is going to be less useful, especially now that so many characters have it that I wouldn't feel like I'm losing something by not playing Meri.

Take what I said with a grain of salt please.... those observations were based on the play-test. Dexterity checks were still there, but as far as barriers go, those tended to be the ones that were basically auto-fail for anyone but Merisiel, and still not the barriers you needed to be most worried about. They tended to be traps that would just deal hard damage and then be gone (at least for a while). The really bad barriers with bury cards, stay on top of the deck, or both... to say nothing of being *shudder* keelhauled by goblins.


Needing skills acrossed the board is going to make me miss not playing RotR Lini even more... her stock just goes up the more skills are required.

Thieves' and Masterwork tools as well. I'm really going to miss them in OP (only the Rangers get tools!).

It will make deck building more intriguing, though. In RotR, I added a set of Tools, every blessing of Abadar I could find, and built the rest of my deck and powers for explore and combat (with healing or acceleration tools as needed). There never was any need for things like the Elven Boots or Chrown of Charisma for us. Cover the barriers, cover the combat, and turbo through the location decks.

It was fun, even though it was simple, because there's a certain appeal to optimizing your deck. But having to balance for other skills will make character building more diverse.


Orbis Orboros wrote:


Thieves' and Masterwork tools as well. I'm really going to miss them in OP (only the Rangers get tools!).

Rogues get tools as well! But they will be missed.


Captain Bulldozer wrote:
The really bad barriers with bury cards, stay on top of the deck, or both... to say nothing of being *shudder* keelhauled by goblins.

Believe it or not, you actually want to see Goblin Keelhaulin' in the final version. I know the playtest version gave some people PTSD, so it may take some getting used to :P


Joshua Birk 898 wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:


Thieves' and Masterwork tools as well. I'm really going to miss them in OP (only the Rangers get tools!).
Rogues get tools as well! But they will be missed.

Ohh, I didn't realize that they had the same amount of items again in the left column - I was just looking at the Items (continued) as that is where all the other class decks list items in their entirety. That's a lot of items!

Mechalibur wrote:
Captain Bulldozer wrote:
The really bad barriers with bury cards, stay on top of the deck, or both... to say nothing of being *shudder* keelhauled by goblins.
Believe it or not, you actually want to see Goblin Keelhaulin' in the final version. I know the playtest version gave some people PTSD, so it may take some getting used to :P

You need to quit giving teasers without spoilers. -__-


Goblin Keelhaulin'

Spoiler:
Traits: Skirmish, Goblin, Pirate, Veteran

Check to defeat: Constitution/Fortitude 5 OR Wisdom/Survival 6

The difficulty to defeat this barrier is increased by twice the adventure deck number of the current scenario, if any.

If undefeated, draw a number of card equal to your hand size, then bury that number of cards.

After you act, stash a number of plunder cards equal to your hand size

Playtest version (I think it's okay to spoil this since the set is released?):

Spoiler:
I don't remember exactly, but a player could discard a card to make another random character at the location encounter it. If you succeeded you got the recharge your discard pile. If you failed, bury your deck.


Bury your deck?!

Talk about harsh...

Grand Lodge

Orbis Orboros wrote:

Bury your deck?!

Talk about harsh...

Kinda hoping that meant bury the discard deck/pile.


Spoiler:
No. "Bury your deck"


Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:

Bury your deck?!

Talk about harsh...

Kinda hoping that meant bury the discard deck/pile.

No need to hope, that was the playtest version. The new one can bury at max eleven cards, and that's only if you're crazy Ranzak. XD


Getting all of the plunder makes the card worth running into anyways. I do not mind it at all. Keep in mind that I haven't ever failed the check, because I might be singing a different tune at that point. Also, running into this card in the 6th adventure terrifies me. Most characters will have trouble hitting Constitution/Fortitude 17 OR Wisdom/Survival 18, even with a blessing...


Here's the original version:

Spoiler:

Goblin Keelhaulin'
Check to Defeat: Constitution/Fortitude 9

The difficulty of checks to defeat this barrier is increased by twice the adventure deck number, if any.

You may bury a card from your hand to evade this barrier; if you do, a random other character encounters it instead.

If undefeated, bury your deck.

If defeated, shuffle your discard pile into your deck.

The new version is still bad, but people might be able to actually deal with it, til chapter 5ish anyway.


Orbis Orboros wrote:

Needing skills acrossed the board is going to make me miss not playing RotR Lini even more... her stock just goes up the more skills are required.

Thieves' and Masterwork tools as well. I'm really going to miss them in OP (only the Rangers get tools!).

It will make deck building more intriguing, though. In RotR, I added a set of Tools, every blessing of Abadar I could find, and built the rest of my deck and powers for explore and combat (with healing or acceleration tools as needed). There never was any need for things like the Elven Boots or Chrown of Charisma for us. Cover the barriers, cover the combat, and turbo through the location decks.

It was fun, even though it was simple, because there's a certain appeal to optimizing your deck. But having to balance for other skills will make character building more diverse.

There were Thieves' tools and Masterwork tools in the play-test, though if they kept the same card count as the play-test, there was only 2 of the former and 1 of the latter. You'll still want to get them as quickly as possible, since they make some of the barriers in the early game possible to defeat... (not necessarily in the later game ;) )


Hmmm... This gives me an idea for a cool new Divine card - what if they made a cure that could affect buried cards, some where around AP 4 maybe? That would be cool.


Orbis Orboros wrote:
Hmmm... This gives me an idea for a cool new Divine card - what if they made a cure that could affect buried cards, some where around AP 4 maybe? That would be cool.

I understand they make a number of changes to S&S right after the play-test ended, but they were pretty firm on the no-getting-back-buried-cards idea. Some cards would be quite broken if you could get them back after being buried, so I understand the ruling.

No, sadly(?) we'll all just have to start getting used to burying more cards, perhaps even as often as every turn, depending.


Orbis Orboros wrote:
Hmmm... This gives me an idea for a cool new Divine card - what if they made a cure that could affect buried cards, some where around AP 4 maybe? That would be cool.

Buried is supposed to stay buried I think. It's an important part of items like the Emerald Codex, Revelation Quill, or scenarios like Into the Eye. If you're able to get buried cards back, it's usually a one time thing (like in the closing section of a location)

Maybe if there was only one, and you buried that card to get the buried cards back.


Hmmm, yeah, I definitely didn't think too hard on it. There'd have to be some stipulation to keep you from abusing some cards. And the only ones I can think of are too awkward in some way or another. :/

Ah well, I should just be glad that it's bury and not banish.

Sovereign Court

I could see a card getting buried stuff back, maybe 2 random cards,but you banish the spell with a Divine check to bury

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

Captain Bulldozer wrote:

Here's the original version:

** spoiler omitted **

The new version is still bad, but people might be able to actually deal with it, til chapter 5ish anyway.

I really, really, really never want to see a playtest card's text on this forum ever again. I don't mind people discussing them in general, but the actual text… please don't do that.

Sovereign Court

Mike Selinker wrote:
Captain Bulldozer wrote:

Here's the original version:

** spoiler omitted **

The new version is still bad, but people might be able to actually deal with it, til chapter 5ish anyway.

I really, really, really never want to see a playtest card's text on this forum ever again. I don't mind people discussing them in general, but the actual text… please don't do that.

If they're as nasty as this one, I don't want to either, I just about cried and it isn't something I have to go up against!

The first rule of Paizo-club: Don't talk about Paizo-club!


Mike Selinker wrote:


I really, really, really never want to see a playtest card's text on this forum ever again. I don't mind people discussing them in general, but the actual text… please don't do that.

I, for one, will of course obey regardless, but I was wondering if you would mind sharing why you feel this way?

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

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Orbis Orboros wrote:
I, for one, will of course obey regardless, but I was wondering if you would mind sharing why you feel this way?

Professionally:

Because the directions we abandon represent design space we might pick up again someday. Revealing it now spoils the effect of revealing it in a product.

Procedurally:
Because things often go through multiple iterations, and each of those may not represent an intended final result, but rather a test of a theory.

Personally:
Because, man, sometimes that stuff is embarrassing.


Mike Selinker wrote:

Personally:

Because, man, sometimes that stuff is embarrassing.

I suspected that this was some part of it. :3

Thank you, I appreciate you sharing. :)


Mike Selinker wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
I, for one, will of course obey regardless, but I was wondering if you would mind sharing why you feel this way?

Professionally:

Because the directions we abandon represent design space we might pick up again someday. Revealing it now spoils the effect of revealing it in a product.

Procedurally:
Because things often go through multiple iterations, and each of those may not represent an intended final result, but rather a test of a theory.

Personally:
Because, man, sometimes that stuff is embarrassing.

Message received... you guys will get no more spoilers out of me!

On the first two points, though, it seems to me that hearing a few extra reactions to the initial design ideas still serves to get you info on whether the theory seems sound and whether players like the idea(s) and balance. As to the third point, I'm sorry if this caused any embarrassment! In any case, I'd still suggest that this particular case only serves to highlight how hard the design team was trying to find a reasonable way to make the game more challenging, as so many people have asked them to do. The final version of the card versus the original really do highlight how hard the team is trying to strike a good balance, and also how receptive they were to play-tester feedback. And those two facts are to be applauded as far as I'm concerned.


Captain Bulldozer wrote:
Message received... you guys will get no more spoilers out of me!

It's okay to spoil released S&S cards, just not S&S beta cards.

Sovereign Court

Personally, I almost like the way the card started *ducks*. I'll never forget the look on my group's faces when they saw the demonstration of keelhauling in my RPG S&S campaign!


Going back to the earlier part of this thread, the difficulty of Plunder and Peril feels ridiculous to us.

We're doing a 4-character play-through with the new characters Seltiel, Jirelle, Lirianne, Alahazra. We managed the first scenario ok, did alright on Rum Punch (although have realised that we did the check wrong to defeat the villain) took 3 attempts on Dangerous Waters, and have yet to get anywhere near Sunken Treasure. The barriers are too diverse to cover (and there are SO MANY) and we just can't get through all the decks (especially with dragons eating the henchmen).

Most of the characters feel underpowered. Lirianne's hand size makes her power almost useless (the Harsklike one) Seltiel doesn't have any way to explore enough, and Alahazra can't fight.


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Lirianne's hard focus on combat powers and few non-combat skills really hurt her, along with the hand size as you mentioned. Before the game was released and I'd read all the character pages, she was in the running for my first character, but even with her role cards she doesn't get much in the way of non-combat ability. :/ However, a d12 Wisdom is pretty great (and +2 Perception, which seems valuable this time around, though less so than Survival and Fortitude), but otherwise I'm not sure how much I like her. Too bad, because she looks awesome, has a cool hat (S&S seems to be, in part, a game about cool hats, and I'm down with that), and Half-Elf Gunslinger just rolls right off the tongue. But it seems like she needs a bigger party to function at her best, like most combat focused characters.

But I'd think you have a big enough party and your distribution looks pretty good. You have Craft, even if it's just with Seltyiel's wimpy d8+1 and you have Jirelle, whom I'm pretty sure is the secret best character in the game and S&S's breakout hit. She's got a really solid stat distribution, +3 Survival, which means many ships are a 50-50 clear before blessings, and only get easier if she puts a feat in there, and Acrobatics, which became a really useful skill as RotR went on, and I'm sure will here too. If anything, to get through these scenarios you should probably have Jirelle handle the charge. She's got Fort and Survival to cover most things, so mostly what she's missing is Craft, and most of the craft barriers are less immediately dangerous, right? Like "Taking on Water" is Craft, but doesn't actually hurt you until the next turn. Jirelle and Lirianne should be able to handle whatever Fort or Survival (Wisdom for Liri) barriers and ships that come up no problem.

I wouldn't say Alahazra can't fight (with her +2 to Attack spells she's the strongest caster out of the gate) but I'd definitely call her fussy. I tried her in one scenario and didn't like it much--I'd never played a pure caster besides Seoni, who's always got an attack on hand (really, does anyone fit that role besides Erezen in Rotr?) But Ala's got Lem's discard swap to take back an attack spell if she needs them. I basically traded Fire Blade back and forth with abandon, and cured every time it came up and I had 3-ish cards in my discard. You might need to proceed cautiously if she doesn't have an attack spell in hand, but she has a way to clear her whole hand and start next turn fresh, if needed. I wouldn't feel like her turn was exactly a waste if I didn't explore and instead used her power six times to scout the top card of every location. That's a good chance of peeping the villain before he can eat one of your ships, or finding a place without a monster to use your explore on. You could even do six scouts before your Move step and pick the most applicable boon in whatever locations you peek at, or alternate peeks and explores at your current location until you find a monster you can't kill. Having a built-in scout is pretty strong power, ask mid-game Seelah.

If you're losing on time because the villain is eating your ships, maybe it's better to scout as much as possible? Then you'll be able to get Lirianne and Seltyiel where they're needed most so Ala and Jirelle can handle the non-combat heavy lifting (or swabbing). If you're killing the villain each time you see him and temp closing as many locations as possible, then you'll be able to make educated guesses about where he'll go next time, so you can use that to purposefully hunt for him OR purposefully go to the places he won't be and also hasn't eaten a henchman at. Him being a dragon, I remember a 1d4+1 damage precombat check, right? I prefer to let villains like that lie fallow as long as possible, especially in this scenario where every time you see him he's basically eating a plunder card. Plunder is one of my favorite additions to S&S, and it smoothed over some of my issues with loot distribution, so I'll go hard at that whenever possible.

If the barriers are giving you trouble, maybe hold back blessings for them instead of burning them for explores? It's definitely scary when JIrelle encounters a Craft barrier, but most of the Craft/Survival/Fort barriers we've seen so far are either a 6 or an 8, which means one blessing will give pretty much anybody in the party a good shot at clearing any blessing. I assume you're spreading out so the ones like Bucket Brigade won't hit everybody. I don't see much synergy in that party that requires you all stick together, especially not in this scenario.

Hope this wasn't annoying. Good luck! :D


For Alahazra, don't forget about her scouting power. Remember that it applies to any location and only requires you to recharge. If you don't have a good hand, you should be able to abuse that power to see the tops of several decks, then choose the location that's easiest to deal with. I usually have an attack spell in hand pretty quickly, especially if I scout 3 or 4 times on a given turn.


Alahazra is flat out amazing. Anyone that thinks differently is not playing her correctly. With the charisma statstone in her deck she is straight up overpowered.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Another brief Ala tidbit, if you didn't play Lem in RoRL: if you've recharged a bunch of attack spells and know you won't get one soon, purposefully flub the recharge on your last one and cycle it in and out of your discard pile until you get a good chain going again. Not as crucial for Ala as Lem, since she can clear her whole hand in a single turn, but a way to ensure you have something available.


Yeah, Lirianne and Seltyiel are both fairly average characters in my opinion. The best part about Lirianne is probably her d12 wisdom, but if you're playing with Jirelle (d8+3 survival), Lirianne starts to get a bit underwhelming.

Saying Alahzra can't fight is just incorrect though. Even if she doesn't start with any of her attack spells, she can cycle through a ridiculous number of cards per turn, while scouting out potential dangers. With a Fireblade, she gets 1d12+2d4+4, and she can fail the recharge check intentionally so that she can get it back each turn (make sure to have at least one cure though, so you can get your discarded cards back in your deck).


Well my group is just about to start the 'Black Flag' scenario (only had to replay one scenario so far); but these are my impressions so far.

Difficulties not really a big difference to start. What I DID notice that there are a lot of Veteran traited cards; so, the difficulty is definitely going to be ramping up as we go.

Powers that didn't show until later decks in ROTR are showing up even in the starter adventure here (particularly, the dragon breath of the last boss; didn't read the text when setting up and got a nasty surprise when the entire team was in the same location; survived but spent too much time recovering to win). So the tricks and traps are getting a early start compared to ROTR.

I'm still on the fence about concentrating on one skill being a bad idea though. Why? The gems man, the GEMS. It's like a hall pass outta any non-combat skill check. Managed to get the WIS and the CHA gems as rewards from the last adventure.

Then of course the game is TONS easier with a Divine healer in the team. Almost willing to say the healing is overpowered. But that was true for ROTR as well.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Check the clarifications. Since you're using, say, your Charisma DIE not your Charisma SKILL, you're not getting your plusses. A d12's still better for Ala than her d4 strength, but it's not a guarantee, and it's only good for one check before it's back in your deck 'til who knows when. I've definitely made room in my deck for a skill gem whenever one comes up, but they're not going to be there for you every time.

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