I'd rather call it like I see it and express my honest frustrations and concerns than merely act as an apologist. This is a product that I pay for, like any other product-game or not, and I support with my free time. I continue to post my opinions re the status of Paizo, as I see it. If they correct the problems, I'll be one of the first in line to say "well done." Until that time, I'll remain "snarky"
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Ok. I like you now. Well done Flat!
Ah, peace through mathematics. Just as it was meant to be...
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Dont be obtuse. Of course I know Mike doesn't physically ship the products, though it may help their manpower issues if he did. In this context you refers to Paizo. Btw, this doesn't lessen the value of my point. Get your (AKA PAIZO) house in order!You constant *golf clap*ing and snarky comments are just making things worse. They're shipping as fast as they can, I'm sure they don't want it sitting in a warehouse unable to create revenue from it. Situations sometimes don't work out perfectly, it's how you handle said situation and react to how others handle said situation that projects your maturity.
We all, including myself since I'm soapboxing, sometimes forget to be civil and helpful. In the end this is just a game and there's many more important things going on in the world to be enraged about than this. I'm excited about it as well but lets just keep some perspective.
First of all, Ducan was never uncivil and his comments did nothing to "make things worse."
Second, its precisely the manner in which Paizo has handled a situation that didn't work that has many subscribers irked.
Third, they aren't shipping things as fast as they can, as far as we can see. From the outside, it looks like they made a decision to sell a product a gen con and then delay shipping orders to subscribers hopping they would be restocked in time to fulfill their obligation to subscribers.
Fourth, they don't have product sitting around failing to create revenue. I was billed for my subscription (including the Character Add On deck) over two weeks ago. They have already taken my money. In fact, its the surety that they can get money from subscribers that probably led them to depriortize our shipments in the first place.
I realize it's hard to judge the tone of internet posts, but looking back at Duncan's recent posts, it's hard for me to read them with anything other than some degree of rudeness and/or incivility.
Yes, it's a bad situation. Yes, we're frustrated. But bad attitude doesn't help. Ever.
Please sir, can I have some more pudding...ahem, I mean cards sir. ;)
(That better?)
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FYI, you guys don't need to defend me. In dealing with me, the only thing uncivility gets is a guarantee that I won't respond to the person who is uncivil. I am somewhat busy making games.
Ok, so when will I get my base set and how do I know if it has shipped?
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FYI, you guys don't need to defend me. In dealing with me, the only thing uncivility gets is a guarantee that I won't respond to the person who is uncivil. I am somewhat busy making games.
Mike, we know we don't have to defend you but some on the boards don't know that you aren't a Paizo employee plus we like you.
As far as what's been going on since before and after GenCon, I think a bit of all that's been said is true. Demand for the game is up because of two fronts. First, people love RotR and want the S&S set. And as more pass the word, more people want S&S up front than with RotR that has been hitting the market for a year. And second, there is now the Organized Play market demand which needs the same items up front plus the Class Decks.
Paizo then is allowing promos to start with the subscription to just the Add-on deck. Which causes those that are willing to buy the base set elsewhere to jump at the subscription. More demand on the Add-on.
Insufficient stock on all fronts … just guessing that Paizo brought their entire stock to GenCon. And that's why retailers got notice of the push-back the week of GC to this week. Can't be in two places at the same time. The selling of product at GenCon was higher than anticipated for both the base set and add-on deck. Then the stock heads back home.
Then at the beginning of this week where the warehouse and customer service is now scrambling to fulfill subscriber and website orders while trying to figure out what they can send to distributors. More pushback. Add-on deck stock is lower than expected and Erik has to post his apology.
No where do I see the base set for sale other than preorder. Customer service is swamped with calls, emails and posts. I was double charged for an order but realize that CS has to take care of stuff in the order received.
So I think this issue is happening due to multiple factors, not just swamped customer service or overworked warehouse crew. I don't think they were ready for the sh*tstorm called August release. Nor ready for how the release would affect organized play happening at the same time (originally).
Third, they aren't shipping things as fast as they can, as far as we can see. From the outside, it looks like they made a decision to sell a product a gen con and then delay shipping orders to subscribers hopping they would be restocked in time to fulfill their obligation to subscribers.
There are a few other possibilities - it's hard to know though without a true mea culpa. (As it is we know something is wrong, but not really what. I suspect several, different events).
Fourth, they don't have product sitting around failing to create revenue. I was billed for my subscription (including the Character Add On deck) over two weeks ago. They have already taken my money. In fact, its the surety that they can get money from subscribers that probably led them to depriortize our shipments in the first place.
This is the biggest break from past practise and is what makes me think something really screwy has happened (as opposed to merely a stock issue). There have been several people reporting this has happened to them. I don't recall that ever happening in a systemic way.
Paizo have a longstanding policy of not charging until the product ships. Sometimes there's a delay of a day or two (when the packet is sitting waiting to be collected) but not a couple of weeks. I'll be astonished if they've abandoned that policy but not terribly surprised if they've struck some previously unknown software glitch (perhaps related to GenCon pickup).
Ok, so when will I get my base set and how do I know if it has shipped?
So, there are two possibilities to this, as I understand it. (This is my understanding, not official).
First, if you were one of the people that had already gotten a shipping notice, but it hadn't actually shipped, your order went out on Friday. This includes people who said they'd gotten an email on the 7th or 8th that their order had shipped but UPS showed no tracking information.
Second, if you aren't one of those people (I'm not) then your Base Set and anything else in your order except the character add-on deck should be shipped early next week. You'll know it ships because you'll get an email saying it has shipped and is finalized and can no longer be changed.
Again, just my understanding.
Hawkmoon, if we are in the group that got our shipping notice on the 8th, is that notice accurate? Or where the promos and the add-ons removed from the order? I asked Customer service, but your response time seems swifter then theirs.
Hawkmoon, if we are in the group that got our shipping notice on the 8th, is that notice accurate? Or where the promos and the add-ons removed from the order? I asked Customer service, but your response time seems swifter then theirs.
That I do not know. There is a chance they had enough in stock that they decided to fill those orders as is, perhaps because it would be easier to do that than to try to re-process them for shipping. But honestly, your guess is as good as mine on that one.
Thanks for the reply in any case. I will let you know if I find out more.
@Hawkmoon, please see this thread for Erik's post on warehouse manpower issues. Manpower
Yeah. I know they don't have lots of manpower. That comment from Erik is more about why it takes so long to fill orders than it is about the character add-on deck problem. But, admittedly, I don't have any more knowledge than you do about the root of the problem. But, I think there is a key part of Erik's post that reveals it was an inventory problem.
As you may have seen in our previous blog relating to the Character Class Decks the card game suffered a number of manufacturing issues that slowed down our originally planned release dates. While we pushed back to release dates on the Character Class Decks we still expected that we'd have the Skull & Shackles Character Add-On Deck ready for shipment without delaying this months subscriptions.
As the estimated fulfillment date drew closer we still had confidence that the Character Add-On Deck would be ready to fulfill subscribers orders, but, as of today the 22nd, its clear we misgauged our ability to do so.
To me, that sounds like he relates the issues with the Character Add-on deck to the issues with the Class decks, which was a printing problem that caused them to have to re-print the inventory. They had to scramble to get things reprinted as quickly as possible, hoping they could still meet all their deadlines (GenCon and subscriptions by the 22nd). So, I'd guess they told the printer "The first deadline is GenCon. We'll need X number of Character Add-on decks and Y number of Class Decks for subscribers and sales at GenCon. Print those amounts first. Then, by the 22nd we need Z more Character add-on decks so that we can fill all subscriptions." And, my guess at least, is the printer couldn't get them Z number of character add-on decks by the 22nd. They all thought it would work out. But it didn't.
But, I don't know any of that for a fact. I'm just guessing. You could be right. It could be an issue of manpower. Here are examples of what I was mentioning.
Lisa Stevens, CEO, working in the warehouse: Example 1 Example 2
They have extra staff in the warehouse. Example 1 Example 2
I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset or disappointed. Just trying to offer my understanding and perspective. Your perspective is as completely valid as mine, and I'm not trying to negate or discount it. Just wanted to share what I thought.
Hopefully soon enough we'll all be so engrossed in the awesomeness of Skull and Shackles that these present pains will seem but a faint memory.
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It's interesting that I'm preparing one of my fall college courses today while I've been following these threads, and one of the readings I've chosen is about shipping warehouse work. Despite our disappointment about all of the issues we've had the last few weeks, I do feel good as a subscriber that Paizo probably treats their warehouse staff better than this:
Thanks for the reply in any case. I will let you know if I find out more.
I'd be interested to hear how that ends up - I've never seen such a protracted delay between charging and shipping.
This was posted Friday in the August subscription thread:
Greetings again Everyone,
Its likely that you know how crazy this month has been for us. When we were setting up this months subscription shipments we were confident that we would be able to have both the Skull & Shackles Base Set and Character Add-On Deck shipped out within our originally estimated fulfillment times. As you may have seen in our previous blog relating to the Character Class Decks the card game suffered a number of manufacturing issues that slowed down our originally planned release dates. While we pushed back to release dates on the Character Class Decks we still expected that we'd have the Skull & Shackles Character Add-On Deck ready for shipment without delaying this months subscriptions.
As the estimated fulfillment date drew closer we still had confidence that the Character Add-On Deck would be ready to fulfill subscribers orders, but, as of today the 22nd, its clear we misgauged our ability to do so.
At this time customer service is moving subscriber copies of the Character Add-On Deck and preexisting promotional cards to ship with September subscription shipments, ensuring Base Sets aren't delayed any further. We were able to ship out a fair number of them today, and expect to have any remaining orders containing the Base Set in the mail early next week. We've considered a few different options, and this is the best one available for ensuring you receive your products as soon as possible.
You have our apologies that we let this occur. We let our optimism cloud our judgement when we should have taken action on this sooner. Many of you have been excitedly waiting for your August items, and we should have them processed and shipped as soon as possible. We should be sending out an official email to everyone effected by this in the near future, so please keep an eye on your inbox.
Character Add-On Decks and promo cards should now be shipping in September shipment, and we'll make sure that everyone receives everything they should. At this time we don't want to cause any further disappointment or delays with your shipments. If you received a confirmation email for your subscription earlier this month stating that your shipment should leave our warehouse by the 22nd your S&S Base Set left the warehouse today. We should have the Character Add-On Deck shipping in September with the promo cards, and you will not be charged again for them.
If you feel that this could have been handled better we completely agree. This has been an ongoing learning experience for us as a collective team, and we hope to put the wisdom we've gained to use next time something like this pops up.
Does this mean that our base sets have shipped? I havn't received a shipping confirmation. Has anyone else?
My subscription for the base set and add-on was marked "complete" on August 7. A shipping label was generated but no actual package given to UPS until the 22nd. UPS now shows it arriving on the 27th (presumably just the base set).
I'm in the same situation as jones and my product was shipped at the same time. Still trying to figure out if it is just the base set or if the add was included (as indicated in the email from Paizo). I guess I am holding out hope that Paizo would be talking about refunding money for customers that they had already billed for character add-on if they never shipped the product..
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Billing customers for product you don't send them is a completely unacceptable practice. If that is the case I will be cancelling subscriptions with Paizo and filling a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
edit: Also, if Paizo changed the contents of a completed order (one that they have already emailed the customer about) they should be sending out an email the alerts consumers that the contents of their order has changed.
How can you tell your base set has shipped? On my subscription page, it is still listed as pending...
I received an email that my order was complete on August 7th. The email contains a link that allows me to track my package via UPS. With that, I can see it made it to a UPS facility in Redmond on the evening of the 22nd and can track progress from their.
How can you tell your base set has shipped? On my subscription page, it is still listed as pending...
You might get more info by logging into your account and checking your order there. It could be that your order hasn't shipped yet but maybe tomorrow.
I love Paizo's products and have been happy with my subscription until this month. I can understand why they basically gambled with how they decided to allocate the add-on decks. Paizo is generally great about communicating so I hope they will realize that they could've done better here.
I haven't checked to see if my card was actually charged on Aug. 8 but if it was, and nothing shipped, then that's a practice they should fix.
Andrew, yes, I do. I also realize that my quality of life isn't affected by not having access to $15.00 for six weeks. Its more about how Piazo treats me than anything else. If a company screws up, I want them to make it right. If they can't be bothered to do that, I will take my business elsewhere.
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I should add that we're somewhat speculating about the course of events here because Paizo hasn't given more details about what happened with the add-on decks. Perhaps the printer shipped stock directly to Gencon and was supposed to send more to Paizo in WA for orders but something went wrong with the WA shipment. Somewhere I read that actual copies of the game arrived on the 11th at Paizo so probably the Gencon stock didn't go there first. By the time it was clear that there were few to none of the add-on decks to ship, Gencon was over and happy buyers went home with their games.
tl;dr - we will see what actually happened and I expect more details soon.
Finally got some forward movement on my shipping this weekend after being charged on the 7th. Frustrating but stuff happens. My only concern is that I don't want to be charged shipping twice on the items that were pushed to next month.
I have that concern as well.
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I hopped on the PACG bandwagon late -- after hearing so many good things about yet *another* game designed by a friend, I finally gave in, picked it up, and loved it! 8) I've even hooked a few buddies.
I subscribed in time for RotR Deck 6, and appreciated how smoothly fulfillment went. I'd ordered from Paizo in prior years, but never regularly, and never via subscription.
Then came S&S. I'm now in the fourth week of a pending order for the release. =/ And by all appearances (even though I'm physically nearby to Paizo) I won't see my base set until early September, and the character add-on until ... late September? Early October?
At this stage, unless there's some details about the hold-ups _and_ some effort to make mail-order subscribers feel as (or more) important than drop-by folks at a con halfway across the country ... well, I think Mike/LSG will still their fair share from my purchases if I buy at my local shop (or online), than via a not-ready-for-primetime subscription operation. And it'll save me a nontrivial amount of money.
Paizo, you've been great in the past -- reassure me that you have a plan to prevent subscribers from feeling like second-rate customers when it comes to PACG subscriptions. And if you really want to provide exemplary service, a little contrition would go a long way (e.g.: announce, develop, and ship a PACG promo card exclusively for PACG subscriber accounts at the S&S base set milestone).
You dropped the ball ... will you recover your fumble?
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Can we please get some info from someone at Paizo? My order is still pending. No email, no explanation, just one post in the august shipping thread.
Their offices open at 10 am pacific time. So there is about an hour before they open for business.
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Their offices open at 10 am pacific time. So there is about an hour before they open for business.
Hawkmoon is correct (as is usual).
From below:
Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time.
(I really wish they still had the carrier pigeon option ... *sigh*)
Just got off the phone with customer service. I wanted to confirm that people who already paid for their order on August 7th/8th are not getting the character add-on deck (despite what their confirmation order shows). I was also told that their is a email forthcoming that will further explain the situation. Paizo is also doing something to make good for their errors on the situation. I won't post what CS told me (since it should be reaching us all later today), but, assuming its accurate, I am satisfied with what Paizo plans to do to make restitution to their subscribers.
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Good to know, Joshua.
I know how people are upset and I know that Paizo is just trying to get all their ducks in a row before they tell us what's going on. It is affecting everyone including retail stores and online stores besides subscribers. And then the organized play.
While I do have my stuff, I'm not dancing around because I know how much this is affecting the rest of the community, and I'm part of that community.
I am glad that they acknowledged that they could have handled the issue better, but I am not seeing any more transparency this week than we have previously. Glad that you got an answer from Customer Support, but a draft of info should have been posted here too. I shouldn't have to call customer support, or find random posts in people threads from Paizo employees.
They need to sticky the information at the top. I can't even FIND the August shipping post because it is buried, or I am blind.
Love the company and the work they produce, love that they say they try to be as transparent as possible. But I feel that the info should be posted on the forums, and pushed out to the paying subscribers in tandem with any information you can get from calling Customer Service.
The August New Release Shipment post is stickied at the top of the Customer Service forum.
Yoshua,
As I understand it, the info will be emailed out to all consumers later today. They are clearing up the technical hurdle with the incorrect order displays first, otherwise the email could just add to the confusion. I agree that this information should have come out on friday, but you should get the info sent to you later today.
The base sets for subscribers were shipped on the 22nd for subscribers, no add-on decks were sent, those were all pushed back to September.
As for a refund, most likely not. You just wouldn't be charged for it when it ships next month.
I am a subscriber and have not recieved any email since the pending email. What dies that mean for me?
It means you are in the same boat as most of us. I think Andrew K's post is slightly wrong. Some of the Base Sets were shipped the 22nd. They were specifically for people that had gotten emails saying their order was finalized and shipping. That seems to have happened around the 7th or 8th. Those people got a tracking number and everything, but the order didn't leave the warehouse until the 22nd.
Everyone else who got the "authorization" email back around the 5th should have our Base Sets shipped early this week. There will be an email going out sometime today with more info. So watch your inbox.
It means you are in the same boat as most of us. I think Andrew K's post is slightly wrong. Some of the Base Sets were shipped the 22nd. They were specifically for people that had gotten emails saying their order was finalized and shipping. That seems to have happened around the 7th or 8th. Those people got a tracking number and everything, but the order didn't leave the warehouse until the 22nd.
Everyone else who got the "authorization" email back around the 5th should have our Base Sets shipped early this week. There will be an email going out sometime today with more info. So watch your inbox.
Thanks... Maybe Paizo needs to hire you to explain things. Lol
It means you are in the same boat as most of us. I think Andrew K's post is slightly wrong. Some of the Base Sets were shipped the 22nd. They were specifically for people that had gotten emails saying their order was finalized and shipping. That seems to have happened around the 7th or 8th. Those people got a tracking number and everything, but the order didn't leave the warehouse until the 22nd.
Everyone else who got the "authorization" email back around the 5th should have our Base Sets shipped early this week. There will be an email going out sometime today with more info. So watch your inbox.
I haven't had the best luck with Paizo's subscription. I tried it in October of last year and consistently received products 2 weeks after street date. Then the Christmas season delayed my adventure's arrival by over three weeks from street date. I cancelled and only started again for S&S because I wanted the exclusive promos and was hoping they had fixed their issues, sadly that's not the case.
Can anyone explain to me the rationale behind making the character add on decks available at Gencon over the subscribers? Was it a case of they didn't know just how screwed they were with the printers?