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They have heard our pleas. They have years of playtesting, and libraries of testimonials on game design and they are doing something about it. The news of the new book is fantastic, but we all know it's probably not done being written yet, so what specific changes would you like to see that would guarantee that you buy the book?
I would like to see:
1) Feat chains eliminated. When a character takes a feat, not unlike the scaling mechanics of Power Attack and Combat Expertise, their Improved and Greater versions should automatically come online for the player when they reach the appropriate prerequisites. Best example: Two-Weapon Fighting, when a player has this feat they should be able to make a main and off hand attack as a standard action; and when their BAB gets to 6, 11, and 16, they should gain an additional off hand attack without having to take another feat.
2) Rogue Talents that are better (not worse) than feats. When rogues have the ability to apply sneak attack damage, they should be treated as having pseudo-full BAB. They should get a free Rogue Talent at 1st level, as well as one at second and every other even level. Finesse Rogue should give the rogue Weapon Finesse for free like Swashbuckler's Finesse and it should allow the rogue to apply DEX on damage rolls with any weapon that qualifies for Weapon Finesse.
3) Skills should be redone. I want to see skills consolidated, and I want to see the return of skill tricks. There should also be a design philosophy that gives Martial Characters more skills than spellcasting characters on principle, and skills should be able to accomplish tasks just s good as, or better than spells. I also want less Perception to be necessary in game so that it can be a skill that only the scout-esk characters need to max out and not every single character in every game ever.
4) Prestige Classes should matter, or be turned into Hybrid Classes like the ACG. If there's anything we've learned from Pathfinder, it is that it is much more attractive to have a full base class that allows you to play your character concept of combining different classes than it is to have to multiclass for so many levels that you eventually either forget what your original concept was, or have to change it before you even get the chance to play it because not doing so means death.
5) A better designed Point Buy system. One that caters to MAD classes and allows most character concepts to be played without taxing the characters so bad that they must pick and choose which class abilities mean less to them, and so that the game doesn't need to have all these 'swap X stat for Y stat' abilities that are becoming so popular because of poor design inspired by the current point buy system. My suggestion is to have physical feats scale linearly while mental stats scale exponentially.
6) Less reliance on 'the big six.' It doesn't bother me personally, because imo it is bound to happen no matter what, but there are a lot of players out there who are not pleased with the way magic items work. Maybe have Weapon Focus scale with BAB up to +5/+5 and have that bonus count as your enhancement bonus, and be available to all characters. Maybe have feats like Iron Will and Great Fortitude count as Resistance bonuses and have them scale so they don't need to invest in a cloak of resistance.
Those are the big things that I can think of off the top of my head.
There are some smaller things that I could gripe about, paladin alignments, fighters needing love, and spellcasting being nerfed, but I'm sure those things will come out over the course of the thread.
You have eloquently stated most of the problems that I have seen in the game and all the things I would like to try to fix with homebrew.
I'd add removal of scaling +x items and of course reliance on them.
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Agreed with much of this.
+x items are annoying and tend to take away from immersion.
Skills should be consolidated and the perception skill should be completely redone.
Redoing feat chains. In general something needs to be done with feats. Waaaaay too many. I honestly have no suggestions on HOW to fix them but they just don't feel right as is.
Prestige classes need to feel like a reward not a gimmick.
1) While I agree that many chains should be folded into a single feat (like TWF, vital strike, or combat maneuvers) or separated entirely (like the dodge->mobility->spring attack line) I don't think it's something that would apply universally. An example might be spell focus, which works just fine as two separate feats.
2) Agree; part of the problem with rogues is that their talents just aren't very good compared to equivalent "once every two levels" bonuses like rage powers.
3) I agree in principle, but I think the devil is in the details on this one. Some skills could still use some consolidation (swim/climb and maybe acrobatics) while perception has proven too consolidated. I've gotten some mileage out of offloading some of its functionality to other skills; knowledge (architecture) to find traps and hidden doors, sense motive to detect ambushes in social settings, and making most mundane perception checks automatic if the PC's search the area.
4) The prestige classes really got a short shaft in the 3.5->PF conversion. The SLA ruling has shown that they're basically so lackluster that they don't need any prerequisites at all. I'm of the opinion that the powerful prestige classes from later 3.5 splatbooks really tainted them, and the fact that core 3.5 prestige classes really weren't that great to begin with was overlooked.
5) I've experimented with various different approaches, but never really been happy. Right now I'm trying a variant where stats are capped at 18 (after racial bonuses) at the 1st level. Races with a +4 bonus to a single stat (ie, goblins) are exempt from this rule.
6) Agree with this one, athough it's a difficult problem to solve.
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I'm just hoping to see some interesting ideas that might prove useful. I already change anything I don't like when I run my games, so I don't rely on the published material to fix the things that don't work for me.
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I'm really interested in the pool mechanic for martial characters. Is it going to be some sort of "endurance" or "exertion" mechanic that lets them push themselves beyond their normal limits, getting extra attacks and the like, or is it going to be used to perform maneuvers (akin to those presented in the Book of the Nine Swords)?
If we are unchaining a good, bad, and medium save progression might be useful for distinguishing classes, or it might make things needlessly complicated. I also like the idea of a base defense bonus.
The world of warriorcraft thread has an interesting reworked weapon system.
More checks for casters. Use spell craft to modify or shape spells like metamagic. Currently it would be op but I like the idea of fewer spells but more modification options.
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I'm really interested in the pool mechanic for martial characters. Is it going to be some sort of "endurance" or "exertion" mechanic that lets them push themselves beyond their normal limits, getting extra attacks and the like, or is it going to be used to perform maneuvers (akin to those presented in the Book of the Nine Swords)?
I hope it's Grit. Grit is one of the best design niches that Paizo has come up with.
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If that's the case, I wonder how it would apply to classes that already have a grit mechanic? Would they benefit from this new "grit" pool or would they get extra points to their previous pools? I mean, would only fighters and the like benefit from it--what about gunslingers and swashbucklers? Seems like they would be considerably weakened if everyone got what is, for all intents and purposes, their main class feature. Maybe the pool will be a replacement for other class features, like an archetype. Who knows?
If that's the case, I wonder how it would apply to classes that already get a grit mechanic? Do they just benefit from this mechanic or do they get extra points to their previous pools? I mean, would only fighters and the like benefit from it--what about gunslingers and swashbucklers? Seems like they would be considerably weakened if everyone got what is, for all intents and purposes, their main class feature. Maybe the pool will be a replacement for other class features, like an archetype. Who knows?
I would like to see a generalized list of deeds that everyone gets, including the swash and gunslinger, and then new deeds based on class.
Stamina points or whatever seem like they may give martials waht they have always needed without having to be mythic.
I like grit, but I personally hope the 'martial pool' isn't just grit on top of everything- it's a cool mechanic that'd I like left for the gunslinger and swashbuckler. Personally, I am hoping the martial pool will be options in combat to make it a bit more dynamic. It's kinda hard thinking of exact mechanics but instead of just attacking you'd have options for how you go about it- 'thrust', uppercut', 'rake' -each having different effects and such. I love Pathfinder and generally I have no problem with the core mechanics save for one, and that's normal combat (not including spells and abilities) is kinda bland. Either charge or full attack this turn. Combat maneuvers and called shots are neat but seem to give little return for their investment, especially with the feat tax to really utilize them. I really want the martial pool to give us special attacks and the ability to use things like combat maneuvers without a feat tree.
That, or replacing the action system with action points. Loved that about the original Fallout games.
I'd like to see optional rules that allow for more realistic combat, and ultimately a limit on the "biggest gun" race for weapons. Why can't someone with a rapier attack faster than someone with a greataxe? Why can a person with a greataxe swing with no penalty even though he is surrounded by friends? Weapon speeds and space requirements would be awesome (although I understand why they were included in the core game).
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1. Magic item creation system my god gold should not be the only factor in creating magic items are you kidding me? If you can create a +5 weapon as a level 5 character or gain a +6 attribute bonus as a level 3 character which totally makes anything your own CR or within the next 6 CR levels go splat its broken. I know gold is supposed to limit it but that also limits role playing, like being able to sneak into the kings castle and kill his steward steal the key to the vault and make off with the tax payers hard earned shinny gold for yourself you can't allow is as the GM under the current magic item creation rules without allowing player characters to be overpowered regardless of the fact that a level 3 rogue could probably do that with a little luck.
2. Spell synergy please look at adding more spell synergy, the current system has some but it should be all over the place especially with the elemental spells we can home brew it right now of course and I do but it would be nice if there was more of it in the RAW.
3. Rules regarding realistic carry weights please by this I mean more than just how much one can carry on there person some things are just cumbersome and while your character could move them the wouldn't be able to carry them just because something weighs 300 pounds it could be 20 feet long and have an odd shape so actually lifting it would be impossible for much time.
4. Equipment weights please make them realistic no offense but the listings of weights for several weapons and armors are completely ridiculous a simple google search shows anybody that. But for someone who has actually trained with real weapons or armor it is glaringly horrible.
Great fighter only feats,and better rogue talents.I'm also a fan of grit for fighters...
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To be bluntly honest, the majority of things I have heard about this book and it's different focuses, I'm really just not that interested. The main thing I do want, (and not even sure I will like it) is the nerfing of the Summoner, but since it is not automatically invalidating the original Summoner, (being left up to individual DM's, and likey will not be PFS legal just because it would require the DM's to redo way too much stat blocks in scenarios), it sort of fails from the start.
I don't care about the proposed idea of "fixing the Fighter".
I just don't see the need for "fixing the Barbarian".
The main thing I have been wanting for this book, (for it to be Unearthed Arcana) has been confirmed as it absolutely not being.
It doesn't seem like it is going to fix/revisit any of the less than really functional optional rules that need it.
Scaling with animal companions, Eidolons, familiars, and cohorts.
Especially the Eidolon. A 15 point buy game should have a weaker Eidolon than one in a 25 point equivalent stat array campaign.
Perhaps some options for random stat rolling guidelines for such class given companions if PC statistics are randomly rolled as well.
The very first thing that comes to mind is that I'd like to see the rules for touch attacks changed so that touch AC isn't such a glaring weak spot in the average character or monster's defenses. Fixing this would iron out a lot of other problems and eliminate some overpowering combos.
As a minor point, the current mechanics for intimidating foes are also a little clunky. It would be easier if it worked against Will saves or CMD instead of the DM needing to calculate the special intimidate DC each time. On that note, some simplification of other CMD and CMB related matters such as grappling might be nice too.
I'd like to see a classless system, like GURPS. In lieu of that, I'd like to see better support for multiclassing or perhaps even official support for gestalt.
The number one thing I am interested in is the Fast Play resolution rules that they've hinted at.
I've seen many campaigns die to the grind of the combat turn at mid-high levels.
The character building part of the Pathfinder equation is great, you can make just about anything nowadays -- but go to play it in a full campaign and watch as things get bogged down and grindy.
My ideal fast play system would be one that utilized existing statblocks but allowed me to run a 6-7 man party versus an adequate threat (action-economy wise) in a half hour.
There's no magic bullet for this. Here are some ideas, though:
I'm very excited by the prospect of being able to use my beloved mid-high characters in a faster-paced system. Sadly, I have low expectations because I believe this kind of alteration is nearly impossible to pull off.
You basically just want to delete the fighter class.
@Will.Spencer - That's a really big change.
@MEL - I used to play with a DM who made all iterative attacks at the same bonus. It sped things up slightly for those who were bad at math, but full attacks were absolutely devastating. Dropping iterative attacks altogether seems like a better option in some ways, but it might require some work to balance manufactured weapons and natural attacks (which would allow way more attacks per round at that point)
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To clarify, I meant keeping the average damage per round the same while limiting iterative attacks to two per round at the same bonus. It is possible.
But iterative attacks are only one part of a multifaceted problem with the game's pacing, IMO.
They have heard our pleas. They have years of playtesting, and libraries of testimonials on game design and they are doing something about it. The news of the new book is fantastic, but we all know it's probably not done being written yet, so what specific changes would you like to see that would guarantee that you buy the book?
I would like to see:
1) Feat chains eliminated. When a character takes a feat, not unlike the scaling mechanics of Power Attack and Combat Expertise, their Improved and Greater versions should automatically come online for the player when they reach the appropriate prerequisites. Best example: Two-Weapon Fighting, when a player has this feat they should be able to make a main and off hand attack as a standard action; and when their BAB gets to 6, 11, and 16, they should gain an additional off hand attack without having to take another feat.
2) Rogue Talents that are better (not worse) than feats. When rogues have the ability to apply sneak attack damage, they should be treated as having pseudo-full BAB. They should get a free Rogue Talent at 1st level, as well as one at second and every other even level. Finesse Rogue should give the rogue Weapon Finesse for free like Swashbuckler's Finesse and it should allow the rogue to apply DEX on damage rolls with any weapon that qualifies for Weapon Finesse.
3) Skills should be redone. I want to see skills consolidated, and I want to see the return of skill tricks. There should also be a design philosophy that gives Martial Characters more skills than spellcasting characters on principle, and skills should be able to accomplish tasks just s good as, or better than spells. I also want less Perception to be necessary in game so that it can be a skill that only the scout-esk characters need to max out and not every single character in every game ever.
4) Prestige Classes should matter, or be turned into Hybrid Classes like the ACG. If there's anything we've learned from Pathfinder, it is that it is much more attractive...
So, looking at my OP, I think paizo may have read this thread exactly as I wrote it.
Did I accidentally write Pathfinder Unchained?