Advanced class guide Warpriest?


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Did it come out as bad as everyone seemed to fear or were the "Buffs" to other parts of the class enough to make it not feel terrible after losing BAB?

Did they get min/level buffs to replace round/level?

More fervor?

Did blessings become not swift actions (Free?).

Please tell me they got something and they won't be a wasted opportunity because that's my favorite part of design space (Battle cleric).


Nope. The archetypes are worth a look though.

Scarab Sages

It's pretty good even with the BAB loss. Archetypes are good, and feats are very good.


Imbicatus wrote:
It's pretty good even with the BAB loss. Archetypes are good, and feats are very good.

If they didn't change anything the archetypes would have to be master summoner/synthesis summoner/zen archer type archetypes to make the class good =\.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Agreed, archetypes are all pretty neat. Some blessings are swift actions, but most are standard.


Xethik wrote:
Agreed, archetypes are all pretty neat. Some blessings are swift actions, but most are standard.

For reference what are the archetypes? Mine is on order but it will be monday before I can get the copy.

Scarab Sages

Sacred Fist is the best of the bunch in my opinion. It gives up weapon and armor proficiency, sacred weapon, and bonus feats for Flurry of Blows, monk unarmed strike, and ac bonuses, some bonus style feats, a ki pool, and an evasion like ability but for fort saves.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Cult Leader gains Sneak Attack at 3 and every 3 levels after, gives up bonus feats. Kind of neat.

Sacred Fist is definitely the one that stands out the most.

Champion of Faith is a mini-Paladin of any alignment. Disenchanter is a weird anti-mage that gets some cool feats without needing prereqs, dispels, and can buff allies saves.


Sacred Fist-Monk+
Champion of Faith-Gets Smite and detect spells. Cha dependency induces madness
Cult Leader-Sneak Attack
Disenchanter-Anti magic
Divine Commander-Mount+Teamwork stuff
Forgepriest-Item Creation


Scavion wrote:

Sacred Fist-Monk+

Champion of Faith-Gets Smite and detect spells. Cha dependency induces madness
Cult Leader-Sneak Attack
Disenchanter-Anti magic
Divine Commander-Mount+Teamwork stuff
Forgepriest-Item Creation

Champion of faith gives up what? And is it smite evil or smite opposite alignment?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:

Sacred Fist-Monk+

Champion of Faith-Gets Smite and detect spells. Cha dependency induces madness
Cult Leader-Sneak Attack
Disenchanter-Anti magic
Divine Commander-Mount+Teamwork stuff
Forgepriest-Item Creation
Champion of faith gives up what? And is it smite evil or smite opposite alignment?

Opposite alignment. Loses the Sacred Weapon magic buffs, a bonus feat, and channel energy.

Scarab Sages

Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:

Sacred Fist-Monk+

Champion of Faith-Gets Smite and detect spells. Cha dependency induces madness
Cult Leader-Sneak Attack
Disenchanter-Anti magic
Divine Commander-Mount+Teamwork stuff
Forgepriest-Item Creation
Champion of faith gives up what? And is it smite evil or smite opposite alignment?

Gives up channel energy, and gains Smite. They have to have a chosen alignment of good/evil/lawful/chaotic, and they smite the opposite alignment. The chosen alignment must match one aspect of the character/deity alignment, with TN being able to choose any.

Edit: Smite is limited per day and takes up two fervor uses per smite. It's a heavy resource drain.


Pick an alignment. You gain the ability to smite your opposite. Good smites evil etc. Replaces channel energy.

Detect opposite alignment replaces the 3rd level bonus feat.

Sacred wweapon is altered to punch through alignment dr depending on your alignment. You give up the enhancement ability which sucked anyways. At 12th once per day you can put holy, unholy etc on your weapon depending on your chosen alignment.


Scavion wrote:

Pick an alignment. You gain the ability to smite your opposite. Good smites evil etc. Replaces channel energy.

Detect opposite alignment replaces the 3rd level bonus feat.

Sacred wweapon is altered to punch through alignment dr depending on your alignment. You give up the enhancement ability which sucked anyways. At 12th once per day you can put holy, unholy etc on your weapon depending on your chosen alignment.

That seems strictly better than the base WP.


Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:

Pick an alignment. You gain the ability to smite your opposite. Good smites evil etc. Replaces channel energy.

Detect opposite alignment replaces the 3rd level bonus feat.

Sacred wweapon is altered to punch through alignment dr depending on your alignment. You give up the enhancement ability which sucked anyways. At 12th once per day you can put holy, unholy etc on your weapon depending on your chosen alignment.

That seems strictly better than the base WP.

Smite comes rather late at 4th level. But yeah, for most warpriests its better.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

By discarding Channel Energy, it does cut your healing ability. I guess its trading defense for offense. It's not a good trade if your Warpriest is the only divine caster in your party, for instance.


Scavion wrote:
Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:

Pick an alignment. You gain the ability to smite your opposite. Good smites evil etc. Replaces channel energy.

Detect opposite alignment replaces the 3rd level bonus feat.

Sacred wweapon is altered to punch through alignment dr depending on your alignment. You give up the enhancement ability which sucked anyways. At 12th once per day you can put holy, unholy etc on your weapon depending on your chosen alignment.

That seems strictly better than the base WP.
Smite comes rather late at 4th level. But yeah, for most warpriests its better.

Does it use level -3? if not smite is basically 1000% better than sacred weapon.


Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:

Pick an alignment. You gain the ability to smite your opposite. Good smites evil etc. Replaces channel energy.

Detect opposite alignment replaces the 3rd level bonus feat.

Sacred wweapon is altered to punch through alignment dr depending on your alignment. You give up the enhancement ability which sucked anyways. At 12th once per day you can put holy, unholy etc on your weapon depending on your chosen alignment.

That seems strictly better than the base WP.
Smite comes rather late at 4th level. But yeah, for most warpriests its better.
Does it use level -3? if not smite is basically 1000% better than sacred weapon.

It does not.


Ross Byers wrote:
By discarding Channel Energy, it does cut your healing ability. I guess its trading defense for offense. It's not a good trade if your Warpriest is the only divine caster in your party, for instance.

A warpriest is an incredibly poor combat healer either way.

Scarab Sages

No, it's full level. It does take two uses of Fervor to activate the smite, so it severely impacts swift action buffing and healing.


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Scavion wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
By discarding Channel Energy, it does cut your healing ability. I guess its trading defense for offense. It's not a good trade if your Warpriest is the only divine caster in your party, for instance.
A warpriest is an incredibly poor combat healer either way.

It's an excellent choice if you're the only divine caster. It prevents your party from baiting you into making a terrible choice with your action in order to heal the party instead of kill something.


Imbicatus wrote:
No, it's full level. It does take two uses of Fervor to activate the smite, so it severely impacts swift action buffing and healing.

Well that's a significant drawback and highly unfortunate. I thought I'd found something that would make the class feel decent.


sacred fist gives up sacred weapon entirely so now enhancing your fists, in trade for flurry exactly as a monks

bonus feats are restricted to syle feats, which isn't so hot, as you'll probably want your style to develop before 6, 12, 18...not major though

also they set the scaling AC bonus to deflection unlike the monk feature that is based on -hopefully that is an error, otherwise that sucks

no evasion, but gets the fortitude equivlent

ki pool at 7 -3 effective lvls, but does what a monk does with it


plaidwandering wrote:

sacred fist gives up sacred weapon entirely so now enhancing your fists, in trade for flurry exactly as a monks

bonus feats are restricted to syle feats, which isn't so hot, as you'll probably want your style to develop before 6, 12, 18...not major though

also they set the scaling AC bonus to deflection unlike the monk feature that is based on -hopefully that is an error, otherwise that sucks

no evasion, but gets the fortitude equivlent

ki pool at 7 -3 effective lvls, but does what a monk does with it

Even if you have an 18 wisdom you have between 5 and 7 uses of fervor. I just don't see that as a viable way to play since you basically have to start every fight with "I fervor Divine favor" I'm just not sure how that's intended to be viable.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
By discarding Channel Energy, it does cut your healing ability. I guess its trading defense for offense. It's not a good trade if your Warpriest is the only divine caster in your party, for instance.
A warpriest is an incredibly poor combat healer either way.
It's an excellent choice if you're the only divine caster. It prevents your party from baiting you into making a terrible choice with your action in order to heal the party instead of kill something.

Healing shouldn't be every action you take, but treating it like it is never the right answer is likely to get someone killed.

Also, channel is still a highly efficient form of out-of-combat healing. Or as a way to hurt undead.

Thus, it is something I'd be absolutely willing to trade off if there was a cleric, oracle, or paladin in the party, but would heistate if there was no.


Ross Byers wrote:
Undone wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
By discarding Channel Energy, it does cut your healing ability. I guess its trading defense for offense. It's not a good trade if your Warpriest is the only divine caster in your party, for instance.
A warpriest is an incredibly poor combat healer either way.
It's an excellent choice if you're the only divine caster. It prevents your party from baiting you into making a terrible choice with your action in order to heal the party instead of kill something.

Also, channel is still a highly efficient form of out-of-combat healing. Or as a way to hurt undead.

Not really. It takes vast investment to make channeling a worthwhile option and ultimately you'll rely on CLW wands anyways for out of combat healing. Considering the Warpriest's channels are already behind on progression it's simply not a good option.

Against undead, I find a hard time believing it is a good option since Undead have a good Will Save and your channel dice are stunted. Seriously, 3d6 damage at 8th level is pitiful. Even in an area. And then most undead will have a greater than 60% chance of saving.


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Warpriest

Better than the Rogue and worse than the Inquisitor.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

Warpriest

Better than the Rogue and worse than the Inquisitor.

"Better than the Rogue" is not a top notch enforcement. Even the warrior can contend for that title.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

*sigh* I was afraid of this. My warpriest, even using the old version, wasn't nearly powerful enough to feel right. Now that they've been nerfed...

Ah well, at least he's big on punching people. Sacred Fist would probably fit him very well.


Yeah, they really screwed up on the warpriest. there isn't any niche for them. The inquisitor makes a better warpriest, and there is nothing that sets them apart. The worst thing that bugs me about this class is the enhance weapon part of the sacred weapon. Its arguably worse than any other classes similar ability. Hell, the arcanist gets a hugely buffed up version of it. For the signature ability of the class (Sacred weapon) its horribly underpowered.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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I don't agree with any of this Warpriest-hate... The swift-action buffing makes them excellent for combat, and healing themselves as a swift action is also great. In my mind, Warpriest is the Paladin but made 100 times better.


Ross Byers wrote:
By discarding Channel Energy, it does cut your healing ability. I guess its trading defense for offense. It's not a good trade if your Warpriest is the only divine caster in your party, for instance.

it is not hte kind oftrade that paizo actively discourage in all the RPG superstars?

Scarab Sages

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The key to the Warpriest is finding the best synergy between class features. The Sacred Weapon lets you make any weapon viable. Fervor means you never have to waste a round buffing when you could be attacking. The bonus feats allow you to take feats before you would normally be able to by BAB.

You can have Vital Strike or a second attack with your off-hand weapon before you have your normal iterative attack. If you are a human you can take Martial Versatility and apply your weapon focus to ALL weapons in a group, granting sacred weapon damage on all of them.


Just how many swift action buffs/heals do you guys think you can do? It's the same small pool. So burn a swift+ burn a spell just to catch you up to another class. It only works so long, in a 15 minute day it might be great, but not everyone plays under that.

It's not bad, it's just there's already a 3/4 BAB divine in this space that does it better AND gets more skills/utility. The inquisitor.

Saying it's 100 times better than a paladin makes me extremely suspect of you, that's blatantly untrue - unless you mean just because no Lawful Good req.


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plaidwandering wrote:

Just how many swift action buffs/heals do you guys think you can do? It's the same small pool. So burn a swift+ burn a spell just to catch you up to another class. It only works so long, in a 15 minute day it might be great, but not everyone plays under that.

It's not bad, it's just there's already a 3/4 BAB divine in this space that does it better AND gets more skills/utility. The inquisitor.

Saying it's 100 times better than a paladin makes me extremely suspect of you, that's blatantly untrue - unless you mean just because no Lawful Good req.

As much as I hate to say it but if you optimize you're actually doing pretty good. Really annoying because you HAVE to optimize but it can be good.

The extreme bonus feats and using level as BAB for all aspects of all feats not just prereqs (Such as PA/Combat expertise progression and X/Day uses based on BAB) and counting as a fighter so you can get GWF, WS, and GWS.

The really redeeming feature of the class is that fate's favored allows you to effectively gain rage 1/day/fervor at level 1 with faster progression than rage.

I still think it could have had full BAB but it's been made up for at most levels. WF, GWF, WS, and GWS as bonus feats make you capable of doing good damage and hitting fairly well with the scaling divine favor (Which for reference is +4 hit and damage at 9th, the equal of rage at 20th.)

As much as I hate to say it the ability to count level as BAB for all feats and count as a fighter of equal level for feats actually does make up in terms of raw damage for not full BAB.

I retract my statements about it. Except that you run out of resources and require a +2 str +2 wis race to play it.


I am sad by how almost good Champion of the Faith is.

Had they swapped the required mental stat to CHA for spells, or WIS for smite we would be in okay shape.

Preferably CHA because of the Divine Protection feat. It will never see PFS play because point buy is the devil, but in home games where someone rolls very well this class is a fantastic paladin fix.


master_marshmallow wrote:

I am sad by how almost good Champion of the Faith is.

Had they swapped the required mental stat to CHA for spells, or WIS for smite we would be in okay shape.

Preferably CHA because of the Divine Protection feat. It will never see PFS play because point buy is the devil, but in home games where someone rolls very well this class is a fantastic paladin fix.

Actually the Cha thing isn't the issue. It's that it consume TWO fervors.


Undone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

I am sad by how almost good Champion of the Faith is.

Had they swapped the required mental stat to CHA for spells, or WIS for smite we would be in okay shape.

Preferably CHA because of the Divine Protection feat. It will never see PFS play because point buy is the devil, but in home games where someone rolls very well this class is a fantastic paladin fix.

Actually the Cha thing isn't the issue. It's that it consume TWO fervors.

Had fervor been keyed off CHA then I would have less issue, because that means more chances to smite.

10 uses of fervor is all it takes to use all of the smites.

Also Travel Blessing is blatantly inferior to the Travel Domain which also makes me sad.


I've been thinking quite a bit about the Sacred Fist Archetype recently, both because it has good synergy with monk multiclass (2x wis to AC, gives you flurry if you gave it up for MoMS or Sensei).

I'm no great shakes at other stuff, but monk stuff I'm pretty decent at, and the Sacred Fist Archetype is a great divine empowered monk (good job Paizo, its basically all I wanted).

prototype00


prototype00 wrote:

I've been thinking quite a bit about the Sacred Fist Archetype recently, both because it has good synergy with monk multiclass (2x wis to AC, gives you flurry if you gave it up for MoMS or Sensei).

I'm no great shakes at other stuff, but monk stuff I'm pretty decent at, and the Sacred Fist Archetype is a great divine empowered monk (good job Paizo, its basically all I wanted).

prototype00

Prototype, I'm a bit too scattered to think clearly about it right now, but do you think there's any way a Sacred Fist makes for an alternate/easier entry into Champion of Irori?

Ghorrin Redblade


master_marshmallow wrote:
Undone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

I am sad by how almost good Champion of the Faith is.

Had they swapped the required mental stat to CHA for spells, or WIS for smite we would be in okay shape.

Preferably CHA because of the Divine Protection feat. It will never see PFS play because point buy is the devil, but in home games where someone rolls very well this class is a fantastic paladin fix.

Actually the Cha thing isn't the issue. It's that it consume TWO fervors.

Had fervor been keyed off CHA then I would have less issue, because that means more chances to smite.

10 uses of fervor is all it takes to use all of the smites.

Also Travel Blessing is blatantly inferior to the Travel Domain which also makes me sad.

At level 4 you have 2 + Wisdom fervor uses. It's nigh impossible to fervor all day.

The most frustrating thing for me is there is no extra fervor feat.


Redblade8 wrote:
prototype00 wrote:

I've been thinking quite a bit about the Sacred Fist Archetype recently, both because it has good synergy with monk multiclass (2x wis to AC, gives you flurry if you gave it up for MoMS or Sensei).

I'm no great shakes at other stuff, but monk stuff I'm pretty decent at, and the Sacred Fist Archetype is a great divine empowered monk (good job Paizo, its basically all I wanted).

prototype00

Prototype, I'm a bit too scattered to think clearly about it right now, but do you think there's any way a Sacred Fist makes for an alternate/easier entry into Champion of Irori?

Ghorrin Redblade

Requires Still Mind, unfortunately, which is a Monk only preserve. Also doesn't get Channel Energy until 4th lvl, which is not as good as a cleric dip.

prototype00


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They would seem to make pretty ideal archers, able to combine some relatively nice self buffs with all the feats you would want (except early access to IPS) Using 9th level to grab both snapshot and improved snapshot is good economy.

Scarab Sages

Lastoth wrote:
They would seem to make pretty ideal archers, able to combine some relatively nice self buffs with all the feats you would want (except early access to IPS) Using 9th level to grab both snapshot and improved snapshot is good economy.

Worship Erastil to get around that by having the trait to ignore cover provided by one creature.


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The two changes to the way feats work for them is strong. Probably as strong as full BAB.

I don't retract my "You run out of resources" criticism because you run dry fast but it's not as bad as it initially seemed.

Sovereign Court

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Sacred Fist: The really cool monk.

The Exchange

I really like the cult leader archetype. I think they nailed the mechanics of someone whose in charge of a small cell of followers as opposed to a larger organized religion.


Imbicatus wrote:
The key to the Warpriest is finding the best synergy between class features. The Sacred Weapon lets you make any weapon viable. Fervor means you never have to waste a round buffing when you could be attacking. The bonus feats allow you to take feats before you would normally be able to by BAB.

Warpriest boils down to the above quoted point. They have an amazing feat economy they get to play with. I personally just built a Warpriest yesterday with my flatmate for a campaign my group is running to test out the live versions of the ACG classes. His build, while a little MAD, is based around two-weapon fighting with a shield and is pretty cool and thematic by my reckoning. Not to mention it uses the community blessing, bodyguard and Saving Shield for a +8 AC to adjacent allies by level 3 (with a max of +13 AC with benevolent armor +5, Sacred Armor anyone?)

TWF Shield Warpriest:

Needs: 19 Dex by 15

Blessings: Community, Plant
1. Combat Reflexes, Body guard
2.
3. Toughness, Saving Shield
4.
5. Two-Weapon Fighting, Imp. Shield bash
6. Shield Slam (Human Bonus Feat)
7. Spiked Destroyer, Imp. Two-Weapon
8.
9. Dual Enhancement, Critical Focus
10.
11. Hammer the Gap, Shield Master
12. Bashing Finish (Human Bonus Feat)
13. Double Slice, Two-Weapon Rend
14.
15. Greater Two-Weapon, Pin Down
16.
17. Stand Still, Critical Versatility
18. Penetrating Strike (Human Bonus Feat)
19. Resilient armor, Great. Penetrating Strike
20.

The stats he rolled are: Str: 17, Dex: 17, Con:11+2, Int: 10. Wis: 16, Cha: 9.

However if you want to do point buy I quickly did the math and one could do the following for 20pt buy: Str: 15, Dex: 16, Con:12, Int: 10. Wis: 13+2, Cha: 8. First 3 stat increases go into Dex for requirments, 4th increase into Wis for casting (You gain 6th lvl spells at 16 any way).

Note: The build assumes one will be getting Enlarge Person and using Righteous Might at hd13.

Aid another order of operations:
1. Your turn & you have an adjacent ally (or will later in the round): Swift action Communal Aid(blessing).
2. Enemy Creatures turn issues an attack on an adjacent ally: AoO Body Guard + Immediate Action Saving Shield (lose swift action on your next turn).

I should mention the human favored class bonus is fairly ridiculous as it reads "Gain 1/6 of a new bonus combat feat." Made significant portion bold. i.e. treating class level as BaB/fighter applies.

Edit: Also a 20th level human fighter will only have 7 feats more than a 20th level human warpriest. So you can rather think of the class as fighter who trades 7 feats for a warpriests class features. In my mind 7 feats for divine casting up to 6 alone is worth it.


Your point buy is wrong for both math and efficiency. You always put your racial boost into your highest adjusted stat or you're wasting it.

You're both putting a +2 into a low stat? It's worth far less there.


Lastoth wrote:

Your point buy is wrong for both math and efficiency. You always put your racial boost into your highest adjusted stat or you're wasting it.

You're both putting a +2 into a low stat? It's worth far less there.

Fair enough, the math was done rather swiftly just to see if it was possible rolling for stats is the norm at my groups table. With your point considered I would change it to the following: Str: 15, Dex: 14+2, Con:13, Int: 10. Wis: 15, Cha: 8. None of the ability scores actually change, but you could now use the stat increase at hd20 for con, yay. I guess you could further optimize for point buy but mass dump stating isn't for me.

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