Goblinworks Blog: Rise of the Supers


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Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Respawn Camping was not mentioned at all until after my first comment, unless in the Blog itself. If that was the case then that Respawn Camping was done by someone on the dev team, if not a Dev himself and was part of the "testing".

Here's the context we had:

Death

Added a guard next to the Sotterhill res point. If you have low Reputation, dying near Sotterhill is not recommended.
(If you have low Reputation from PvP You will have to run out of town immediately on respawn. You will likely be killed by the guard on first respawn. It's stun effect will be recharging when you respawn a second time. Keep running.
We did this because someone thought it would be fun to camp the respawn point and kill people as they respawned, knowing that the nearest guard wouldn't detect them and react.
Griefing will not be tolerated.)
ugh... someone in Alpha has already started 'Griefing' activity. Shame on you. Hope you get it out of your system before EE starts if not, I hope the 'Ban Hammer' hits you repeatedly.
I think it is the same guy who was following various people around the other night while they were trying to gather/craft and killing them.
TEO Cheatle wrote:
I think it is the same guy who was following various people around the other night while they were trying to gather/craft and killing them.
Hopefully he/she will do that enough to the Devs that it triple reinforces their will to have a robust rep system.
Bluddwolf wrote:
Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:
TEO Cheatle wrote:
I think it is the same guy who was following various people around the other night while they were trying to gather/craft and killing them.
Hopefully he/she will do that enough to the Devs that it triple reinforces their will to have a robust rep system.

I don't see what the problem with this is? Some players want to PvP, and until they have systems in place to do it, they are going to do it any way they can.

I would roll up a few characters, with different builds and just keep on going out and testing each build. Once they are useless, delete and reroll another.

I've watched enough streaming videos of escalation runs to see that they are boring to me. Making an escalation harder does not make it more interesting, it just makes it take longer to do the same mundane tasks of Kill 10 X, Collect 5 Y = Boss Spawn.

That there were a number of people who know Bluddwolf well enough that it didn't automatically strike them as absurd he would be defending spawn-camping should tell you a lot.

[Edit] As if on cue...

I understand that Bludd. I did not correct or clarify earlier because I have little interest in getting involved when the assumptions start flying. When you first replied, I actually thought you meant spawn camping, but I cared so little that I did not argue or rebut. I really DON"T care for anything along these lines, anymore. :)

It is obvious now (to me), what you meant.

Still care very little though. ;)

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I'm curious, the achievement condition is definitely out of the equation, or is it just a convenience for Alpha ?

Just asking because I always thought that this achievement condition wasn't going to stay in the long run.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:

I understand that Bludd. I did not correct or clarify earlier because I have little interest in getting involved when the assumptions start flying. When you first replied, I actually thought you meant spawn camping, but I cared so little that I did not argue or rebut. I really DON"T care for anything along these lines, anymore. :)

It is obvious now (to me), what you meant.

Still care very little though. ;)

The actual reference you were speaking to was here in the Blog:

Quote:

Death

Added a guard next to the Sotterhill res point. If you have low Reputation, dying near Sotterhill is not recommended.
(If you have low Reputation from PvP You will have to run out of town immediately on respawn. You will likely be killed by the guard on first respawn. It's stun effect will be recharging when you respawn a second time. Keep running.

We did this because someone thought it would be fun to camp the respawn point and kill people as they respawned, knowing that the nearest guard wouldn't detect them and react.
Griefing will not be tolerated.)
Death now causes a character to stop targetting their most recently targeted enemy.

But it was not in the thread and so it was impossible to know what you or Cheatle were talking about was respawn camping. That was as a matter of fact, respawn camping by a Dev or one of their team if that makes any difference. It also led to making positive changes in the game, which Alpha is meant to do.

But we still have nothing to help us learn about PVP builds, unless someone is willing to tank their Rep and delete their toon. That is not griefing, that is testing and learning.

I will also add, that also teaches the victim how their current build functions in PVP. Something I think everyone will need to know at some point. It makes sense to me for it to be learned when it doesn't count... In Alpha!!

Goblin Squad Member

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Audoucet wrote:
I'm curious, the achievement condition is definitely out of the equation, or is it just a convenience for Alpha ?

I'm fairly certain it's only out for Alpha.

Ryan has talked a lot about the need for players to accomplish in-game objectives in order to advance, so that they can't just sit in an NPC zone gathering XP for a couple of years and then emerge as a powerful veteran.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
That was as a matter of fact, respawn camping by a Dev or one of their team if that makes any difference.

What on earth makes you think it was a dev that was doing the respawn camping? That makes no sense to me at all.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
But we still have nothing to help us learn about PVP builds, unless someone is willing to tank their Rep and delete their toon.

This is simply not true. I've detailed how PvP testing can be done between two willing participants without impacting their Reputation. Of course, you decided to call me an exploiter for pointing out that it could be done, but what does that matter?

Goblin Squad Member

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Sigh.... And just to clarify even more. It is not that I thought Bludd "might" be advocating spawn camping. (I should have known better, but did not dwell on it) Or that I don't care what he writes.

I care very little for unproductive antagonism and/or participating in it.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Nihimon wrote:

I'm fairly certain it's only out for Alpha.

Ryan has talked a lot about the need for players to accomplish in-game objectives in order to advance, so that they can't just sit in an NPC zone gathering XP for a couple of years and then emerge as a powerful veteran.

Which is, I think, a mistake, and maybe they decided that it is indeed, I don't know.

Goblin Squad Member

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Its as gloomy in here as a Golgothan Widow's bedchambers.....

Lets get some excitement! Who is ready for the servers to come up!? I know I'll be streaming as I do a little walk through on higher echelons of training.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
That there were a number of people who know Bluddwolf well enough that it didn't automatically strike them as absurd he would be defending spawn-camping should tell you a lot.

Any of you can search for "Respawn Camping" under the name Bluddwolf and see that I have just short of 30 times, over the past year (aug 7, 2013) declared Respawn Camping as griefing under my own (and apparently everyone else's) definition.

There were't a number of people, there was just you. Only you resorted to what you know best when others do't agree with you, name calling and deflection.

You want the benefit of the doubt even when you are wrong, and then you are unapologetic for the slander that you sling.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
That was as a matter of fact, respawn camping by a Dev or one of their team if that makes any difference.
What on earth makes you think it was a dev that was doing the respawn camping? That makes no sense to me at all.

Because the Devs were playing the Darksiders, and the spawn camping was contained in the Blog. I can go back and watch the streaming video and try to see who was killing Bonny at the respawn site.

Was this not the incident, or was there another incident, I asked that question and it was not answered.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Guurzak wrote:
Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:
TEO Cheatle wrote:
I think it is the same guy who was following various people around the other night while they were trying to gather/craft and killing them.
Hopefully he/she will do that enough to the Devs that it triple reinforces their will to have a robust rep system.
This is Bringslite taking a stance against crafter killing, and is the specific post Bluddwolf was responding to. Nihimon, I'm no fan if a lot of what Bluddwolf says, but your facts are wrong on this one.
Yeah, it sounded to me like Bringslite was also talking about the spawn-camping, not the wilderness PvP.

And it turns out you were right, but I can completely see how Bluddwolf could have interpreted it differently.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
But we still have nothing to help us learn about PVP builds, unless someone is willing to tank their Rep and delete their toon.
This is simply not true. I've detailed how PvP testing can be done between two willing participants without impacting their Reputation. Of course, you decided to call me an exploiter for pointing out that it could be done, but what does that matter?

I never called you an exploiter, I said I wanted a way to PVP without having to use an exploit. I gave you credit for discovering it, but it still requires one person to decide to tank their reputation!!

Alpha NEEDS a way to PVP without losing rep, so PVP BUILDS can be TESTED!!!

Otherwise, players who want to PVP will only be able to test a build, tank rep, delete toon.. rinse and repeat!! There may not be enough time left before Sep 15 to do that properly.

Scarab Sages

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14. Do not argue with trolls — it means that they win.

Another threat desintegrated by twisted misinterpretations discussion.

Goblin Squad Member

Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:

Its as gloomy in here as a Golgothan Widow's bedchambers.....

Lets get some excitement! Who is ready for the servers to come up!? I know I'll be streaming as I do a little walk through on higher echelons of training.

+1

I'M EXCITED! :D

Goblin Squad Member

Alpha hype?

Alpha hype!

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
That was as a matter of fact, respawn camping by a Dev or one of their team if that makes any difference.
What on earth makes you think it was a dev that was doing the respawn camping? That makes no sense to me at all.

Because the Devs were playing the Darksiders, and the spawn camping was contained in the Blog. I can go back and watch the streaming video and try to see who was killing Bonny at the respawn site.

Was this not the incident, or was there another incident, I asked that question and it was not answered.

The blog described spawn-camping inside Sotterhill.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
... it still requires one person to decide to tank their reputation!!

No. It doesn't. I've explained this over and over. Two willing participants can engage in all the PvP they want with neither tanking their Reputation.

Goblin Squad Member

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Wow, I believe my comment really derailed the thread....

And to be fair, I considered the guy Griefing, he was:

Following people to crafting stations, or following them from town out in the wilderness, and he would kill them. (This is all fine and dandy)

Then, he would offer them some crafting materials, and when they would show up, he would kill them, then laugh at them in Chat (This is basically being a douchbag, but still not Griefing, because they should have known better)

What was griefing, was continuing to follow said person around, and kill them, I believe he killed them 5 times total, to the point that they logged out of the game. When you are gaining nothing, but enjoying someone's frustration and doing it for the luls, I see it as griefing.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
... it still requires one person to decide to tank their reputation!!

No. It doesn't. I've explained this over and over. Two willing participants can engage in all the PvP they want with neither tanking their Reputation.

Trying to learn how to surf in a bathtub. Hey that is fine by me....

I hope anyone who is actually PVPing will stream so that the rest of us can learn various builds and tactics. Just until we all get a chance to jump into Alpha and do it for ourselves.

Goblin Squad Member

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TEO Cheatle wrote:

Wow, I believe my comment really derailed the thread....

And to be fair, I considered the guy Griefing, he was:

Following people to crafting stations, or following them from town out in the wilderness, and he would kill them. (This is all fine and dandy)

Then, he would offer them some crafting materials, and when they would show up, he would kill them, then laugh at them in Chat (This is basically being a douchbag, but still not Griefing, because they should have known better)

What was griefing, was continuing to follow said person around, and kill them, I believe he killed them 5 times total, to the point that they logged out of the game. When you are gaining nothing, but enjoying someone's frustration and doing it for the luls, I see it as griefing.

That seems to fit the behavior of a griefer to me.

Goblin Squad Member

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TEO Cheatle wrote:

Wow, I believe my comment really derailed the thread....

And to be fair, I considered the guy Griefing, he was:

Following people to crafting stations, or following them from town out in the wilderness, and he would kill them. (This is all fine and dandy)

Then, he would offer them some crafting materials, and when they would show up, he would kill them, then laugh at them in Chat (This is basically being a douchbag, but still not Griefing, because they should have known better)

What was griefing, was continuing to follow said person around, and kill them, I believe he killed them 5 times total, to the point that they logged out of the game. When you are gaining nothing, but enjoying someone's frustration and doing it for the luls, I see it as griefing.

I would also consider that griefing. That was not, what was in the original post that I responded to.

Grand Lodge PFO Community Manager

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Hey guys, A few updates for you all.

Login error: You will be notified that your login failed. This is a known bug and will not likely be fixed for this build. To login to the game, just keep clicking "Login" until it goes through.

To unlock the Alpha Test Achievement Point Bootser, run over to the Seoni statue in Sotterhill and you will be notified via pop up text.

Please stop pointing fingers about who was or who was not griefing. We put in the guard to prevent such issue as we noticed you COULD do this during ATwB last week. We are trying to stop these things BEFORE they happen. IF there was someone running around doing such things, we will be dealing with that issue on our end. As much as we will not tolerate griefers, we will not tolerate lynch mobs or harassment via the msg boards or forums.

Danke,

<3

CEO, Goblinworks

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The removal of achievements is a temporary thing just to remove gates in progression for this testing phase.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Ryan Dancey wrote:
The removal of achievements is a temporary thing just to remove gates in progression for this testing phase.

Ok, thx !

Goblin Squad Member

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I just hope if somebody tea bags me they'll have the decency to not use Earl Grey. Earl Grey is totally griefing.

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Avari wrote:
I just hope if somebody tea bags me they'll have the decency to not use Earl Grey. Earl Grey is totally griefing.

Sun-breweed sweet iced tea for me, thanks :)

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Avari wrote:
I just hope if somebody tea bags me they'll have the decency to not use Earl Grey. Earl Grey is totally griefing.

Yeah. I would prefer spearmint tea. It will at least smell good.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Black Silver of The Veiled, T7V wrote:
T7V Avari wrote:
I just hope if somebody tea bags me they'll have the decency to not use Earl Grey. Earl Grey is totally griefing.
Yeah. I would prefer spearmint tea. It will at least smell good.

Are you implying that Earl Grey doesn't smell good? Blasphemy!

Let's spend the next 20 or 30 posts arguing about the best smelling tea. By the time we're done, maybe people's heads will have cooled.

Goblin Squad Member

I apologize if I said anything out of order, Bonny, was just trying to clarify what I was saying, also, I haven't named names. Either way, dropping the issue.

Goblin Squad Member

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Kind of a funny story about someone running around in the wilderness following other players and killing them...

My wife was running around west of Sotterhill last weekend gathering resources when she suddenly spoke up and laughed "I think this guy's following me." She didn't seem too worried so I didn't think much of it, but a couple minutes later she mentioned he was still trailing along after her, so I started heading her way to give a little back up. She was still laughing about it because she knew she was a lot faster than him - he was sneaking a lot and apparently trying to be sly. Sure enough, when I'm about halfway to her she says, with obvious disappointment, "looks like he gave up".

Half an hour or so later, I'm helping a friend by trading some resources or something (I forget exactly what) when it suddenly dawns on me it's the same name as the guy who was trailing my wife. Turns out he'd already killed a couple of folks, and remembered stalking her but had gotten cold feet when he realized she was on to him.

He learned an important lesson about Reputation when he couldn't train that character anymore, but it was also a good reminder that wilderness PvP is a wholly different animal than deliberately targeting folks in town where they're most likely to be extremely distracted by other things, or even AFK.

PvP can be a lot of fun, even when it's actually kinda meaningless.

Scarab Sages

Even if the PvP is meaningless, the consequeces of it are not.


Black Silver of The Veiled, T7V wrote:


Yeah. I would prefer spearmint tea. It will at least smell good.

That's not tea. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Coffee

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

<Tavernhold>Malrunwa Soves wrote:
Coffee

Even people who hate the taste of coffee will often agree that it smells wonderful.

Goblin Squad Member

<TG>Thranx wrote:
Black Silver of The Veiled, T7V wrote:


Yeah. I would prefer spearmint tea. It will at least smell good.
That's not tea. :)

As an Englishman, I concur. That is NOT tea!

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Do we need a new word for "leaves of other plants steeped in hot water"? I'm guessing that "herbal tea" would not be satisfactory to the hardliners.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
...it smells wonderful.

My best friend tells me I'm the only person he's met who dislikes the smell, too.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
Do we need a new word for "leaves of other plants steeped in hot water"?

Too late: "tisane".

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon, that totally reminds me of an experience I had that was just like that. ;)

Definitely some fun to be had, I suspect with a working rep recovery system in place we are likely to see a bit more of it too!

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

There we go, then. We'll tea bag people with teas and tisanes.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
Do we need a new word for "leaves of other plants steeped in hot water"?

I think the right word is infusion. Decoction if the plants are boiled with the water, and maceration if it is in cold water.

Decoction & infusion are tisanes. Tea is one type of infusion.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

Kind of a funny story about someone running around in the wilderness following other players and killing them...

My wife was running around west of Sotterhill last weekend gathering resources when she suddenly spoke up and laughed "I think this guy's following me." She didn't seem too worried so I didn't think much of it, but a couple minutes later she mentioned he was still trailing along after her, so I started heading her way to give a little back up. She was still laughing about it because she knew she was a lot faster than him - he was sneaking a lot and apparently trying to be sly. Sure enough, when I'm about halfway to her she says, with obvious disappointment, "looks like he gave up".

Half an hour or so later, I'm helping a friend by trading some resources or something (I forget exactly what) when it suddenly dawns on me it's the same name as the guy who was trailing my wife. Turns out he'd already killed a couple of folks, and remembered stalking her but had gotten cold feet when he realized she was on to him.

He learned an important lesson about Reputation when he couldn't train that character anymore, but it was also a good reminder that wilderness PvP is a wholly different animal than deliberately targeting folks in town where they're most likely to be extremely distracted by other things, or even AFK.

PvP can be a lot of fun, even when it's actually kinda meaningless.

Didn't that end up being Darcnes?

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
Do we need a new word for "leaves of other plants steeped in hot water"?
Too late: "tisane".

I learned this word in the SCA. It's a good word.


Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
I don't see what the problem with this is? Some players want to PvP, and until they have systems in place to do it, they are going to do it any way they can.
Yep, we get it, you're pro-Griefer.

If the character spawning has a low reputation and someone attacks them, is that also griefing? The game now has NPCs that do this afterall.

Goblin Squad Member

So the game is pro-griefer... that's an interesting "feature".


Nihimon wrote:
Valkenr wrote:
One thing I would consider adding is a limit to how much you can attack a non-war target. I get this idea from killing Decius 50 times (when he was red!) at the Sotterhill spawn point. At 40 kills I was fine, then sometime after that my rep tanked. It would be nice to see a penalty for over-targeting a player or organization, outside of War or amicable PvP agreements.
I expect attacks on Morale will not be quantifiable by the systems.

If they're 'red' is that griefing? Is Valkenr pro-griefing?

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
But we still have nothing to help us learn about PVP builds, unless someone is willing to tank their Rep and delete their toon.
This is simply not true. I've detailed how PvP testing can be done between two willing participants without impacting their Reputation. Of course, you decided to call me an exploiter for pointing out that it could be done, but what does that matter?

Just so everyone is clear, this is what I wrote:

Bluddwolf wrote:

Having to use an exploit in order to have consequence free PvP is still not addressing the question that was posed.

There is still no non consensual PvP that is rep neutral and so there is still no way to truly test the system.

Funny... I don't see calling you any names. I clearly described why the "solution" you used did not address the issue I raised.

Having you character repeatedly commit suicude, to unlock a social achievement, to then flag yourself as a murderer for 24 hours to enable rep free PvP is not working as intended, it is therefore an exploit. I did not criticise you for using the exploit, I merely said that is not a solution.

Once again, instead of admitting you were wrong, you deflect and then falsely accuse me if calling you a name in a transparent attempt to obscure your own violation of the forum rules.

We see you.

Goblin Squad Member

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I see London, I see France...

Goblin Squad Member

Well in a stunning turn of events, I have been so generously given an Alpha invite. I look forward to attending tonight's Adventures with Bonny.

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