Advice on divine hunter (paladin archetype)


Advice


Hi!

I am currently GMing rise of the runelords, and last session the char of one of my players died. It was interesting roleplay etc, so even though I really liked the char, it was OK.

The player has come forward with an idea for a new char (the party has reached level 4 at the start of last session, and I have the policy to let new chars have the same level as the party... actually I don't even do individual xp and differences in level)

Anyway, his concept is a halfing archer paladin, riding a mount (now just a bought wolf/dog, the mount on level 5). His idea was to use the divine hunter archetype, which sounds logical for an archer paladin... but at level 5, the divine hunter says:
Divine Bond (Su)

At 5th level, a divine hunter forms a bond with her deity. This functions as the paladin’s divine bond ability, except the bond must always take the form of a ranged or throwing weapon (excluding ammunition). In addition to the listed abilities, a divine hunter can add the distance, returning, or seeking special abilities to her weapon, but she cannot add the defending or disruption special abilities. Special abilities added to throwing weapons function normally when the weapon is used in melee.

This ability replaces the standard paladin's divine bond.

He wanted to use the divine bond to get a mount, but it seems the divine hunter does not to allow the divine bond ability to be used for a mount, ONLY for the weapon option... I get why ranged should be chosen over melee, but I don't see why a mount should not be an option, the rest of the archetype does not seem overpowered...

So, I would like some advice: should I keep with the rules, or allow the player to get a mount on level 5, or is there perhaps a better archetype for this character concept?

Oh, and just to be sure: IF you choose an archetype, it is for all the levels, right? You can't choose the archetype for level 1 only, and then be a normal paladin after that? (I'm 99% sure that you can't).

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

if you pick an archetype you must take the whole thing (no mixing and matching). personally, i don't think divine archer is a very good option unless you're just dipping a couple levels of pally with some other main class. i'd probably take a base paladin (probably adding oath of vengeance). archery is soooo feat intensive that the archetype looks appealing but in the long run you give up more than you get.

but i suppose that doesn't really answer the question... if you're just playing a home game i don't see any reason why you couldn't allow him to take a mount- like i said, i think the archetype is inferior to a base pally so opening up the divine bond options back to the base level would probably only help (slightly) at correcting that imbalance.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Choosing the archetype is for all the levels in that class. You can't mix and match.

Strange that the Divine Hunter doesn't get Survival as a class skill.

You can do as you wish, but by the rules they would have to take the weapon bond. That doesn't prevent them from using a normal mount.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Divine Hunter is a really weird archetype. It wants to make you think it's good for a paladin with a bow, but it's actually best for a character who TWF with thrown weapons.

In most situations, it's going to be really subpar, because you give up your chance at a mount and some of your best auras for the ability to give people feats they're probably already going to have if they have any intent to participate in ranged combat. The fact that you can temporarily give yourself some of those feats is nearly useless since you can't use them to help meet your prereqs for the other feats you need.

He's better off using the standard core paladin, selecting a mount with his divine bond, and just spending his feats towards archery. Smite Evil will go a long way towards closing the gap between him and characters with more bonus feats to spend, and built in mounted archery and wise spell selection will close that gap and move him into the lead as one of the best archers in the game, with the added benefit that his increased mobility and ranged attack options will allow him to almost always place himself exactly where his auras will do the most good. The only thing he's really losing by going core paladin instead of divine hunter is the free precise shot feat, and what you keep more than makes up for that. I say this having played several archer paladins, and really stress-tested both the Divine Hunter and the core Paladin. Core Pally makes for just as good an archer and a better party member 9 times out of 10.


+1 core paladin is a strong choice. I personally like oath of vengeance. More smites and potentially an easier code.


I'd try to talk the player into running a regular or OOV paladin for the archer. The divine hunter is a bad archetype IMO. If you can't talk him into swapping (especially now that he's fifth and the free feat at first level has diminished value) I'd let him just take the mount instead, who is it hurting?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's noting stoping the player from having a MOUNT, it simply won't be a mount that gets the animal companion benefits, which isn't that important given the main focus is archery.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

LazarX wrote:
There's noting stoping the player from having a MOUNT, it simply won't be a mount that gets the animal companion benefits, which isn't that important given the main focus is archery.

I'd disagree with that, a lot. Having your mount select the right feat options can be very important, and it's harder (if not impossible) to do with a non AC mount. You also miss out on potentially awesome options like the Monstrous Mount feats to let you fly around on your bonded hippogriff raining arrows on your enemy without worrying about the first fireball going off sending you plummeting earthward on your now-roasted chicken. Archers tend to be a target for spells since they're so hard to catch in melee, and that means there mount is even more at risk. Having an AC mount, particularly a paladin's bonded mount who starts with INT 6 and can learn any feat it qualifies for, opens up some of the best options for a mounted archer, like having you and your mount both learn Escape Route so that you can actually get away safely if an enemy takes you by surprise and manages to get all up in your grill.

And, again, it's not the only reason why core paladin is better than divine hunter anyways. DH gives you auras of extremely dubious usefulness, whereas the core pally's auras are one of his strongest class features.

There's also the fact that having the full progression mount to bat clean up can make a big difference. Sometimes that little extra bit of dpr your mount brings in a pinch can be the difference between life and death.

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