I'm super excited for Iron Gods, but I started thinking, "What is Paizo going to do for the next AP I wonder?". So I started thinking and then it hit me: Treerazer.
It would be an interesting AP in my opinion. Helping the elves remove the menace of a nascent demon lord that's basically sitting in their backyard would be a fun adventure. I know it might be similar to Wrath of the Righteous, but I'm sure Paizo has a good enough development team to avoid that. It would probably end up being the 2nd mythic campaign. Plus Kyonin hasn't really been explored as a setting as far as I know.
So what do you guys think?
They mentioned somewhere (think James Jacobs said it on a forum post about Iron Gods) that they were trying to do an every other kind of thing with the APs. Something crazy, something tradtional, something crazy, something tradtional. Since Iron Gods is definitely in the "Something crazy" category, I'm guessing the next AP will be a little more moderate in tone and scope. Almost definitely won't be mythic. I do like the idea though, Treerazer is bound to have some very interesting and unconventional demons in his armies.
Treerazer can actually make an appearance in Second Darkness as a very unlucky random encounter.
Don't expect another mythic AP anytime soon. The last one had a great story but mythic rules make high level Pathfinder even more broken then usual.
Treerazer is bound to have some very interesting and unconventional demons in his armies.
I can see this, like demons that revolve around defiling and corrupting nature. Could also have some cultists that have been corrupted. But I do see your point about Treerazer not being next. I just like the idea of a Treerazer AP.
They mentioned somewhere (think James Jacobs said it on a forum post about Iron Gods) that they were trying to do an every other kind of thing with the APs. Something crazy, something traditional, something crazy, something traditional. Since Iron Gods is definitely in the "Something crazy" category, I'm guessing the next AP will be a little more moderate in tone and scope. Almost definitely won't be mythic. I do like the idea though, Treerazer is bound to have some very interesting and unconventional demons in his armies.
They have already stated that Iron Gods will be followed up by Giantslayer, which is almost stereotypically classic/traditional. I think the OP is discussing what we think will come after that.
They mentioned somewhere (think James Jacobs said it on a forum post about Iron Gods) that they were trying to do an every other kind of thing with the APs. Something crazy, something traditional, something crazy, something traditional. Since Iron Gods is definitely in the "Something crazy" category, I'm guessing the next AP will be a little more moderate in tone and scope. Almost definitely won't be mythic. I do like the idea though, Treerazer is bound to have some very interesting and unconventional demons in his armies.They have already stated that Iron Gods will be followed up by Giantslayer, which is almost stereotypically classic/traditional. I think the OP is discussing what we think will come after that.
This.
Personally, I would like to see a AP that takes the players to 20th level, period. If I could find an AP that doesn't top out at 15th-16th level I would be happy at this point.
I don't like this mythic ruleset to be honest, as I found that others believe the mythic stuff makes encounters either too damned easy or instant death.
Also, why is it there's no dragons in any of these AP's? I recall lots of dungeon crawls growing up that had them as the final encounter and they served the function well, what with having triple treasure and being damned nasty in a fight.
I doubt Treerazer will be the one post Giant Slayer only because Paizo so recently did a big demon-flavoured AP.
I probably could've worded my post better. I wasn't aware of Giantslayer at the time I posted so what I should say is what are your opinions on a Treerazer-based AP?
I doubt they'll end up using Treerazer given that he's already been statted up in the Inner Sea World Guide. And Treerazer isn't really a mythic threat; I suppose the AP could revolve around him ascending and becoming a full demon lord, but honestly I wouldn't want both demon-themed rp's to be mythic. Builds the demons up too much.
Anyway, I think they're going to leave him around for DM's to use as a big bad without building an adventure around him, and save future rp's either for new threats or established ones that never the less haven't been statted up yet.
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I doubt they'll end up using Treerazer given that he's already been statted up in the Inner Sea World Guide. And Treerazer isn't really a mythic threat; I suppose the AP could revolve around him ascending and becoming a full demon lord, but honestly I wouldn't want both demon-themed rp's to be mythic. Builds the demons up too much.
Anyway, I think they're going to leave him around for DM's to use as a big bad without building an adventure around him, and save future rp's either for new threats or established ones that never the less haven't been statted up yet.
Treerazer isn't a mythic threat for a very specific reason—in fact, for the same reason the Tarrasque isn't. He's designed SPECIFICALLY to be a Core game boss for a 20th level party. If we were to do a Treerazer AP, it would be a non-mythic AP that went all the way to 20th level... which isn't something that's all that easy to pull off without going to the fast track for XP and without then also handing out some inflated XP awards in the form of story awards or quest awards... and the reader reaction to those types of XP awards has always been surprisingly negative. So I wouldn't expect a Treerazer AP anytime soon. The final adventure against him probably be a better topic for a module... but at the same time, I'd like to find a way to do an AP.
It's not the one coming up, in other words. ;-)
Where can we get more information, assuming it has been provided, on Giantslayer?
I doubt they'll end up using Treerazer given that he's already been statted up in the Inner Sea World Guide. And Treerazer isn't really a mythic threat; I suppose the AP could revolve around him ascending and becoming a full demon lord, but honestly I wouldn't want both demon-themed rp's to be mythic. Builds the demons up too much.
Anyway, I think they're going to leave him around for DM's to use as a big bad without building an adventure around him, and save future rp's either for new threats or established ones that never the less haven't been statted up yet.
Treerazer isn't a mythic threat for a very specific reason—in fact, for the same reason the Tarrasque isn't. He's designed SPECIFICALLY to be a Core game boss for a 20th level party. If we were to do a Treerazer AP, it would be a non-mythic AP that went all the way to 20th level... which isn't something that's all that easy to pull off without going to the fast track for XP and without then also handing out some inflated XP awards in the form of story awards or quest awards... and the reader reaction to those types of XP awards has always been surprisingly negative. So I wouldn't expect a Treerazer AP anytime soon. The final adventure against him probably be a better topic for a module... but at the same time, I'd like to find a way to do an AP.
It's not the one coming up, in other words. ;-)
Granted I haven't crunched the numbers but I imagine doing a fast track AP would be enough. I'm currently playing in a Rise of the Runelords on the fast track and we're where we should be, level wise, because our DM doesn't do random encounters.
So I'd imagine including random encounters would go a long way towards pushing for those extra two levels.
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I have crunched the numbers. Fast track would likely get us one level ahead of where we are now. MAYBE two if we push. That still wouldn't be enough to hit 20th level.
Also, Rise of the Runelords already assumes the fast track.
Even then, they'll probably only hit 18th level.
The original Runelords used the 3.5 D&D experience progression, which is even faster than Pathfinder's fast track, and even that was unable to hit 20th level.
Treerazer himself I find cool and wouldn't mind stuff done with him.
However his location in-world makes it a necessity that an AP revolving around him be heavily elf-centric and that loses my interest.
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Treerazer himself I find cool and wouldn't mind stuff done with him.
However his location in-world makes it a necessity that an AP revolving around him be heavily elf-centric and that loses my interest.
That's kinda Treerazer's whole theme, so yeah... a Treerazer AP would be elf-centric. Note, however, that his realm is as much the neighbor of the elf kingdom as it is the dwarf kingdom...
I have to say that if we get an elf-centric Adventure Path, I hope it spends the second half on Castrovel instead - especially now that we've got a fight-the-invading-demons-adventure-path (with an awesome name ;) ) already.
That's just my preference, though.
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That's kinda Treerazer's whole theme, so yeah... a Treerazer AP would be elf-centric. Note, however, that his realm is as much the neighbor of the elf kingdom as it is the dwarf kingdom...Treerazer himself I find cool and wouldn't mind stuff done with him.
However his location in-world makes it a necessity that an AP revolving around him be heavily elf-centric and that loses my interest.
James you don't need to worry about Treerazer, as my elf Wizard archmage already killed him after we killed Deskari.
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. If we were to do a Treerazer AP, it would be a non-mythic AP that went all the way to 20th level... which isn't something that's all that easy to pull off without going to the fast track for XP and without then also handing out some inflated XP awards in the form of story awards or quest awards... and the reader reaction to those types of XP awards has always been surprisingly negative.
Speaking for my group, we hate leveling up super fast (and I've been stretching out parts of Wrath of the Righteous because of it), I would rather have level gaps between the books where I can insert modules (which would probably require you guys to put out more modules a year) and I remember how well that was received with Second Darkness.
Maybe a high level module that deals with Treerazer that players can run as a standalone or as a high level adventure of their own. Personally I would love if one of the yearly hardcovers was dedicated to a massive module, or maybe one boxset a year at ~$80 which included a map folio.
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I'm super excited for Iron Gods, but I started thinking, "What is Paizo going to do for the next AP I wonder?". So I started thinking and then it hit me: Treerazer.
It would be an interesting AP in my opinion. Helping the elves remove the menace of a nascent demon lord that's basically sitting in their backyard would be a fun adventure. I know it might be similar to Wrath of the Righteous, but I'm sure Paizo has a good enough development team to avoid that. It would probably end up being the 2nd mythic campaign. Plus Kyonin hasn't really been explored as a setting as far as I know.
So what do you guys think?
Treerazor!!!! Jeezus NO! Im scared just by the thoiught of that dude!!!
My campaign is hitting Treerazer, and visiting Kyonin is not (yet) required. Recall that the elves built these Aiudara things leading all over Golarion, and at least one must point at Shevaroth. IMC, the other end popped up in the Verduran forest, all set about with cold iron wards to keep the demons out. Of course the local fey didn't like this cold iron stuff and made the PCs get rid of it. Oops. We got a leak.
+1 for _something_ with Treerazer.
I understand that it's not likely for an AP on account of the level progression issues, but the new style of modules (longer than previously) should be able to do something worthwhile with him.
Or there's the dwarf/elf/Castrovel idea for an AP ... if he's still too tough to be the final boss there, then he could instead be a post-campaign boss (with a more detailed "After the Campaign" article to support that encounter).
And yeah, Kyonin elves need to be revisited to make up for certain parts of Second Darkness.
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Of the 'big 5' PFS starter nations, Andoran, Cheliax, Osirion, Qadira and Taldor, we've seen a fair bit of Cheliax and a dash of Osirion in APs, but not much of Andoran, Qadira or Taldor (although Legacy of Fire had a Qadiran feel to it).
An AP set in one of those countries could be handy to flesh out those more traditional areas.
Or one set in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings (chapter 6, kill a linnorm and become a Linnorm King!),
Or in Nidal (chapter 6, storm the Plane of Shadow to free tortured souls held by Kytons whose eternal sublime suffering is being used to power a fiendish machine that is blocking out the sun in an ever-expanding area around Nidal!)
Or in Rahadoum (if you go to Rahadoum, you will die...), or one of the other nations that has been designed in such a way as to shape what sort of party would be viable (no divine casters, in the case of Rahadoum, making access to healing more of a challenge, or a Nexian AP that assumes that all party members are arcane casters, or a Gebbite AP that assumes that all party members are at least undead-friendly, if not actual undead themselves!).
For the 20th anniversary, perhaps we'll have Dogslayer, the first all-Goblin(oid) Adventure Path!
I doubt they'll end up using Treerazer given that he's already been statted up in the Inner Sea World Guide. And Treerazer isn't really a mythic threat; I suppose the AP could revolve around him ascending and becoming a full demon lord, but honestly I wouldn't want both demon-themed rp's to be mythic. Builds the demons up too much.
Anyway, I think they're going to leave him around for DM's to use as a big bad without building an adventure around him, and save future rp's either for new threats or established ones that never the less haven't been statted up yet.
Treerazer isn't a mythic threat for a very specific reason—in fact, for the same reason the Tarrasque isn't. He's designed SPECIFICALLY to be a Core game boss for a 20th level party. If we were to do a Treerazer AP, it would be a non-mythic AP that went all the way to 20th level... which isn't something that's all that easy to pull off without going to the fast track for XP and without then also handing out some inflated XP awards in the form of story awards or quest awards... and the reader reaction to those types of XP awards has always been surprisingly negative. So I wouldn't expect a Treerazer AP anytime soon. The final adventure against him probably be a better topic for a module... but at the same time, I'd like to find a way to do an AP.
It's not the one coming up, in other words. ;-)
While on the subject of forest-corrupting demonic entities, having a statblock for Arlantia of the Southern Fangwood would be nice. The whole Isger-Molthune-Nirmathas area seems to have nothing going for it besides that and whatever nasties Tar-Baphon left in his wake, and even then, ye Olde Whispering Tyrant seems more aligned to stir things up in Ustalav.
Personally, I would like to see a AP that takes the players to 20th level, period. If I could find an AP that doesn't top out at 15th-16th level I would be happy at this point.
I don't like this mythic ruleset to be honest, as I found that others believe the mythic stuff makes encounters either too damned easy or instant death.
Also, why is it there's no dragons in any of these AP's? I recall lots of dungeon crawls growing up that had them as the final encounter and they served the function well, what with having triple treasure and being damned nasty in a fight.
Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition takes players to 18th level (ideally) for after the final boss. After that you're a stone's throw of home-brew away from character capstones and taking on Treerazer.