Why are they removing aasimar and tieflings?
Off the top of my head:
Fiendish Vessel (Cleric) or Fiend Flayer (Magus) Archetypes - Tiefling
Purifier (Oracle) Tranquil Guardian (Paladin) Archetypes - Aasimar
Every other idea can be done with humans or something else if you have to.
I just know that Racial Archetypes are the only reason I would "need" to use a race. I do like Aasimar for Champion of Irori builds though. Helps with the MADness.
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I never had much urge to play an Assimar (I prefer that spelling) OR a tiefling. Although the impending end of their boon-less play did compel me to finally join those respective bandwagons and make one of each.
I'm generally against making (super)optimized characters for PFS and like to play unusual things (one of the reasons I never had any of those races in the first place...) so my suggestions obviously will have varying mileage in other mindsets.
Assimar: Inquisitor/Cleric of Calistria. I whip you with CHANNEL SMITE!
Tiefling: Fighter/Witch. I can do things besides FULL ATTACK YOU WITH A BOW!
A tiefling based on natural attacks is a good choice.
Actually, just today I started a Qlippoth Tiefling on that road today with a Tiefling Infiltrator specializing in the natural attack style and dipping into Living Monolith around the same time he gets his Animal Companion. Claw/Claw/Bite for the win!
He joins my Pitspawn Oath of Vengeance Paladin and my Musetouched Dawnflower Dervish. That's it for me - too many other concepts to pursue.
I think that loophole is part of the reason they are being removed. It's also part of the reason I'm going to pass on making a theurge.Aasimar provided the only quick path to Mystic Theurge.
I hope some game mechanic emerges to restore the possibility of becoming a Mystic Theurge at fourth level.
Then I believe it's a poor reason to drop a race.
If a prestige class needs a specific race to function in game (not be behind enough on caster level to have poor distance, duration, damage, and spell utility) then it's not a good idea to begin with.
I like Pathfinder, but this version of the game penalizes multiclass concepts too much.
I think that loophole is part of the reason they are being removed. It's also part of the reason I'm going to pass on making a theurge.Aasimar provided the only quick path to Mystic Theurge.
I hope some game mechanic emerges to restore the possibility of becoming a Mystic Theurge at fourth level.
Agreed on both counts. I think that was a terrible rules interpretation along with others like it, such as a low-level or even cantrip SLA serving as a valid pre-requisite for Arcane Strike. The whole point of a Theurge is one whom learns of both aspects of magic, not one who learns how to be a Cleric and then has a single innate ability grandfather in an entire second class...
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My RL brother and I have GM baby Tiefling and Aasimar Swashbucklers.
The basic concept is that my Tiefling Swashbuckler (Adham ibn Saif) and his Aasimar (Misha'al ibn Saif) are adoptive brothers. Both were abandoned by a tribe of nomadic desert dwellers in Qadira for being 'unnatural' births, and adopted by the same swordmaster. He then raised them as his sons and pages, and trained them as fencers (hence their fencer+swordsman's page traits, which give them a +1 trait bonus to hit on AoOs and another +1 untyped bonus to hit on crit confirmations)
They are going to specialize in teamwork feats (other than race, alignment, and a few other small things, they are pretty much the same character on paper) and tactics over numerical feats.
They are pretty SAD into Dex and will take Dervish Dancer at lvl 3 unless Slashing Grace gets a major overhaul.
Neither of them have weapon focus or weapon specialization, or power attack/Piranha Strike. Strange, no?
All done through the power of AoOs and an enormous Crit threat range!
Basically we are going to take Paired Opportunists at lvl 4 (+4 to hit on AoOs and whenever one of us gets one the other does too, so long as we are adjacent) and Seize the Moment at lvl 5 (whenever one of us gets a crit confirmation the other gets an AoO...which triggers the guy who critted to get an AoO as well) and then we'll take the Dodge-Mobility-Combat Patrol line at 7,8,9 to basically wall off half the battlefield in a zone of 'you-really-don't-want-to-provoke'.
Level 11 we're having trouble coming up with a good feat choice for. Critical focus is the thought, as it will diminish the chance that one of our crit threats doesn't confirm from about 30% to the unavoidable 5%. Weapon focus at this point isn't bad per se, but we won't likely be taking these guys through Eyes of the Ten so we wouldn't be taking advantage of Weapon Focus' biggest attraction, further feat qualification. Circling Offense is amazing, but only against large reach enemies.
What I'd really like at 11 is a way to 'force' the enemy to provoke. If a broadly applicable way to do that isn't available, maybe some way to prevent casters from casting defensively.
My RL brother and I have GM baby Tiefling and Aasimar Swashbucklers.
The basic concept is that my Tiefling Swashbuckler (Adham ibn Saif) and his Aasimar (Misha'al ibn Saif) are adoptive brothers. Both were abandoned by a tribe of nomadic desert dwellers in Qadira for being 'unnatural' births, and adopted by the same swordmaster. He then raised them as his sons and pages, and trained them as fencers (hence their fencer+swordsman's page traits, which give them a +1 trait bonus to hit on AoOs and another +1 untyped bonus to hit on crit confirmations)
They are going to specialize in teamwork feats (other than race, alignment, and a few other small things, they are pretty much the same character on paper) and tactics over numerical feats.
Had twin Aasimar Dawnflower Dervishes run through Wrath of the Righteous not that long ago - they took the teamwork feats Broken Wing Gambit, Paired Opportunists and Seize the Moment. With a high-crit weapon like the Scimitar, they were devastating fighting side-by-side.
It's a completely different game from 3.5, where everything good about a class was front loaded. Pathfinder doesn't penalize multi-classing so much as reward single class characters or couple level dips.
It's largely the same game minus the polymorph shenanigans.
Certain multiclass concepts just don't work. They are not equal to the challenges a character of their effective level is supposed to face. With casters, thou shalt not lose caster levels. Playing a theurge "straight" ruins effectiveness due to what you give up on caster level, spell access, and stamina.
It's why they made the Witch. And the Magus. And the Inquisitor. And now the Slayer and the Warpriest and the Investigator.
Casters in 3.5 got spells and not class features. There was less reason to stay in a class once you got spells and a PrC gave you spells + stuff. It wasn't front loaded so much as less savvy design.
With the exception of a few features that don't rely on level (I think of Oradins here...), until they publish feats that allow two classes to stack for x and y features, or adding the clause that two classes that share z feature stack, or allow certain things to take into consideration character level, like initiators used to, then rewarding single class to the extent that they do IS punishing multiclass characters.
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It's a completely different game from 3.5, where everything good about a class was front loaded. Pathfinder doesn't penalize multi-classing so much as reward single class characters or couple level dips.
I can see both sides of the argument. With Archetypes there are fewer reasons to want to multiclass to get whatever flavor you're going for, so the fact that it is pretty much never an optimal way to build isn't such a huge deal. Mid-level loading of class features I definitely think is FAR superior to the 3.5 model, both because it discourages munchkinry and it also provides a better power curve for any class really. Also, while virtually never optimal there are plenty of ways to make it viable or even good which are far more important benchmarks.
What troubles me are Prestige Classes. A lot of them are very flavorful and cool, and as a 3.5 player virtually all of my characters were built with the intention of one day joining a prestige class. In PF, and particularly Society play, no one uses them (possible exception of Dragon Disciple). I literally haven't met a player using a Prestige Class yet. The reasoning given is always the same, too many Class Features get nixed in the switch.
Why, you ask? Because PrCs should live up to their name. In other words, players should be REQUIRED to have performed some act or labor that has enabled them to be inducted into the ranks of the Noble Knights of Whatever. They need to have literal prestige within their field. The qualification should still necessitate mechanical things (that invariably require the player to deviate at least somewhat from min/maxiness) but more importantly the player should need to prove themselves worthy to whatever organization they are joining (or do something similar for those PrCs that are not affiliated with organizations).
Some will argue that this isn't suited to Society play. I actually hold exactly the opposite view. In a home game you'd likely see many GMs waiving the storyline requirements (or changing them, which I have zero beef with) but in Society play PCs would need to perform difficult tasks (or even, gasp, Faction Missions!) in an environment not given to just handing the player resources. In other words, you'd have to earn it.
Easy examples of things that could qualify a player for PrCs would be surviving Bonekeep while clearing every room, accomplishing some (considerable) number of Faction quests even though they do not grant additional fame, or [joke]successfully Bluffing a shopkeeper[/joke].
Wow did I get off on an idea tangent.
Had twin Aasimar Dawnflower Dervishes run through Wrath of the Righteous not that long ago - they took the teamwork feats Broken Wing Gambit, Paired Opportunists and Seize the Moment. With a high-crit weapon like the Scimitar, they were devastating fighting side-by-side.
Wow, I guess there really are no new ideas. That is pretty much exactly what we're doing. I have some questions for you then.
1) What are your thoughts on the Swashbuckler vs. Dawnflower? We were excited to use something from the ACG and thus haven't really given Dawnflowers more than a cursory glance.
2) What are your thoughts on combat patrol? Obviously it gives us way more battlefield control, but it is three feats, and more importantly requires a full-round action to set up. I'd rather have two AoOs than iteratives, but how frequently would you say we'd really have enemies provoke?
3) At what level did you take Broken Wing gambit, and how much weight did it pull? We have been going back and forth on taking it at 11 instead of Critical Focus.
4) What did you do about 'problem enemies'? Specifically, I can imagine oozes will be a major issue for us, though alkali flasks will at least help us from being utterly useless against them. What I'm more worried about are enemies with miss chance (as SBlers are precision damage dependent) and flyers. Our solution thus far has been to get +1 ghost-touch heartseeking scimitars, but even that doesn't help if the thing has wings.
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I am actually running through this very issue right now. I have a Tiefling cleric but only because I needed a Tiefling in time. I have an aasimar oracle for the same reason. Both are first level. Now I have a legitimate aasimar who is level six or seven and plans to get wings and all that. That should probably be enough to scratch my itch.
But I have no idea what I really want to do as a Tiefling now. I had considered changing the nature oracle to a lunar oracle and making it a Tiefling instead of an aasimar and that would be pretty cool. But there is no real benefit for doing that it would seem.
I long ago had a Tiefling idea on the back burner. He would be 'batman' with his serpentine eidolon and him hiding in the shadows, striking from darkness, calling himself the night as he rides his snake to victory....very slowly. At the moment, I don't know what I will do. Might just stick with the Tiefling cleric and leave well enough alone.
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I am actually running through this very issue right now. I have a Tiefling cleric but only because I needed a Tiefling in time. I have an aasimar oracle for the same reason. Both are first level. Now I have a legitimate aasimar who is level six or seven and plans to get wings and all that. That should probably be enough to scratch my itch.
But I have no idea what I really want to do as a Tiefling now. I had considered changing the nature oracle to a lunar oracle and making it a Tiefling instead of an aasimar and that would be pretty cool. But there is no real benefit for doing that it would seem.
I long ago had a Tiefling idea on the back burner. He would be 'batman' with his serpentine eidolon and him hiding in the shadows, striking from darkness, calling himself the night as he rides his snake to victory....very slowly. At the moment, I don't know what I will do. Might just stick with the Tiefling cleric and leave well enough alone.
I think your Batman idea is wonderful. I think your eidolon is leaving you dissatisfied, and that is because you haven't realized who Batman's eidolon is.
Robin.This is pretty close to the idea that spawned the Dervishing brothers that we're making now. Initially I was going to do it by my lonesome as a Summoner, but we thought the Yin-Yang idea of an Aasimar and Tiefling was cooler.
I am going to block out what I think Batman and Robin look like at level 7 and get back to you, because that is how exciting I think this idea is.
Keep in mind though, Batman isn't really possible until late-levels, because Bruce Wayne has at least a 20 in every stat. Well, maybe not Charisma. He's either gruff and unapproachable behind the mask or a simpering idiot in his Bruce persona. Anyhow, talk to you soon.
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Haha! Robin the eidolon. I love it.
I just kept envisioning this really over the top Tiefling hero who would, in broad daylight, announce 'I am the night. I am the darkness that burdens the gait of all souls. I am the end of tyrany and the instrument of vengeance!' And then he comes out just trying to look cool at whatever the heck he is trying to do-probably some spear stabbing thing while riding on his eidolon-snake-robin-thing.
It struck me as amusing and fun and utterly silly. But right now I don't know if I really want that anymore or not. Flight of fansy maybe.
I believe the reason they are being removed is that campaign leadership feels they are imbalanced with the other races.
They never said anything about that. You can try to read between the lines and see it as that, but others may read between the lines differently.
The stated reason is just to shake things up and make changes, keep things from getting stale.
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Demon Spawn with Fiendish Heritage. Pick up Maw and Claw, Abyssal Bloodline, and BAM.
My charisma is about 17 but I still treat it as 2 levels higher for almost everything. Not to mention that I can get 2 claws 7 times a day, as well as a bite attack. I can summon rather strong minions who get DR. It's awesome at being gish, as well as summoning minions to back me up. It's like being a magical mob leader. What's not to love?
In fact, I guess I could do shadow, but I despite many saying it's amazing, I'm not all too interested in it.
Just... don't tell any of the Pandas that I'm a tiefling. I'm trying to keep that a secret. ;P
Aasiamars have a FCB that's +1/2 to determinig a revelation bonus for Oracles, which means you can have a level 15 Animal Companion at level 10 with the Lunar or Nature mysteries
Tieflings have one that's +1 healing to Lay on Hands for Paladins, which is usually better than the flat +1HP. They can make effective tanks as a result. Aasmiars are also good Paladins, with +2 STR/+CHA with no penalties for Angelkin.
Tieflings get the Half-Orc bonuses for Alchemists and Inquisitors, which make them pretty good choices for being a bomber or intimidate-based inquisitor.
Plumekith make good zen archers/archer inquisitors, and +2 DEX/+2 WIS isn't always available. Likewise, several Tieflings are +2 STR/+2 WIS, which I think is even rarer (Although as you said Dual talented humans can always do this, too).
Had twin Aasimar Dawnflower Dervishes run through Wrath of the Righteous not that long ago - they took the teamwork feats Broken Wing Gambit, Paired Opportunists and Seize the Moment. With a high-crit weapon like the Scimitar, they were devastating fighting side-by-side.Wow, I guess there really are no new ideas. That is pretty much exactly what we're doing. I have some questions for you then.
1) What are your thoughts on the Swashbuckler vs. Dawnflower? We were excited to use something from the ACG and thus haven't really given Dawnflowers more than a cursory glance.
2) What are your thoughts on combat patrol? Obviously it gives us way more battlefield control, but it is three feats, and more importantly requires a full-round action to set up. I'd rather have two AoOs than iteratives, but how frequently would you say we'd really have enemies provoke?
3) At what level did you take Broken Wing gambit, and how much weight did it pull? We have been going back and forth on taking it at 11 instead of Critical Focus.
4) What did you do about 'problem enemies'? Specifically, I can imagine oozes will be a major issue for us, though alkali flasks will at least help us from being utterly useless against them. What I'm more worried about are enemies with miss chance (as SBlers are precision damage dependent) and flyers. Our solution thus far has been to get +1 ghost-touch heartseeking scimitars, but even that doesn't help if the thing has wings.
1) I've deliberately avoided the ACG up til now and couldn't give you a fair comparison. Can't imagine any race being better for Dawnflower Dervish though, except maybe Human.
2) I think Combat Patrol would be a waste of limited resources (feats) and would scatter or distract your focus in combat.
3) Full disclosure - we ran WotR as non-Mythic, instead advancing faster to compensate. The characters finished at 26th level and the pair in question took a couple of levels of Lore Warden at 5th and 6th level to grab some additional early teamwork feats. Those two bonus feats were Broken Wing Gambit at 5th and Paired Opportunists at 6th, and they were incredibly effective at those levels.
4) Every enemy is a unique case. Against some the pair was devastating, against others they were glad to have their allies there. The other two players in the group was an Oath of Vengeance/Oath Against Fiends Tiefling Paladin and a Human Dragon Disciple (Silver). The two Aasimar were conceived as twins reflecting the duality of Sarenrae's grace - retribution and redemption, and each leaned in the differing directions through role-play, often times at odds with one another.
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Have you considered a tiefling AC tank with the Armor of the Pit feat?
I made a tiefling fighter who will have that, Dodge, Mobility, combined with full plate, fighter Armor Training, and 14 dex starting (boosted to 16 with a belt when the Armor Training lets a +3 boost affect his AC in full plate). So he'll have full plate + shield levels of AC without needing the shield, thus allowing two handed weapon levels of damage.
So at level 1, he's already got 18 strength, greatsword, Weapon Focus: Greatsword, and a bite attack, with Power Attack coming at level 3 (I want Armor of the Pit and Dodge for the AC boosts before worrying about Power Attack).
I also gave him the Suicidal trait so he can tank an attack aimed at one of his allies, though it sucks that it's only usable once per day.
And for personality, I gave him Profession: Chef, which leads to some humor when combined with is bite attack. But apparently, cannibalism is always evil in PFS, so I do have to tone down those jokes a little. He's still very food focused, though.
Is it okay to re-build a level one character with two credits into an aasimar?
Have you considered a tiefling AC tank with the Armor of the Pit feat?
I made a tiefling fighter who will have that, Dodge, Mobility, combined with full plate, fighter Armor Training, and 14 dex starting (boosted to 16 with a belt when the Armor Training lets a +3 boost affect his AC in full plate). So he'll have full plate + shield levels of AC without needing the shield, thus allowing two handed weapon levels of damage.
So at level 1, he's already got 18 strength, greatsword, Weapon Focus: Greatsword, and a bite attack, with Power Attack coming at level 3 (I want Armor of the Pit and Dodge for the AC boosts before worrying about Power Attack).
I also gave him the Suicidal trait so he can tank an attack aimed at one of his allies, though it sucks that it's only usable once per day.
And for personality, I gave him Profession: Chef, which leads to some humor when combined with is bite attack. But apparently, cannibalism is always evil in PFS, so I do have to tone down those jokes a little. He's still very food focused, though.
I have not, but it's a very good suggestion. I was considering going this route with my tiefling rogue. Was eventually planning on getting Celestial Armor, Armor of the Pit feat, Offensive Defense rogue talent, 26 Dex, Jingasa, Amulet of Nat Armor, and Ring of Prot. Was figuring I could get his AC to 37 or 38 at level 8 or 10 after getting off a sneak attack. He uses natural attacks, ,so all I really need to boost his attacks is an agile amulet of natural armor.
The other I might just go straight tiefling fighter, but I was also considering an aasimar warpriest of Iomedae. I don't know, I'll figure it out eventually.
Any Tiefling Tank discussion really should begin and end with Paladin - the FCB for Tiefling Paladins is simply too good, combined with the other class features. The things my guy can accomplish to keep the rest of the party standing is really nothing short of amazing and at the end of the day Fighters often make poor tanks because of the Achilles Heel of 1) poor saves and 2) no means of healing or reducing damage other than AC.
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Is it okay to re-build a level one character with two credits into an aasimar?
Not unless it was played as aasimar in the first place. There was a clarification on this in the PFS subforum. Don't ask me to find the exact post, though - those threads are huge.
I have decided that 1 of the characters will be a negative energy channeling cleric of Besmara that takes Channel Smite and Guided Hand feats. Oddly enough, I'm assigning her to the Liberty's Edge faction. She will certainly show slavers a thing or two about the bad touch.
I have a negative channeling cleric of Besmara, also, though mine's a half-orc - Green Beard the Pirate!
I considered Channel Smite and Guiding Hand, but eventually decided to just give up on weapons altogether and have him focus on casting and touch attack domain powers. He has a cestus, so he always threatens, but if he has to fall back to doing damage with it, the party's in trouble.
His feats went into boosting his concentration, so he's a front line tank/debuffer, using the Chaos domain power and spells to debuff enemies, with the Trickery domain power and some armor to stay alive. The half-orc cleric favored class bonus lets him get extra uses per day of those first level powers. I dumped charisma and only went negative channeling for the spontaneous inflict spells.
As previously stated, Id go with tiefling alchemist.
Tiefling, blood rager, abyssal - natural attack beast
Is it okay to re-build a level one character with two credits into an aasimar?GM credits, yes. Player Credits, no. Unless you have GM credits, you will have to have actually played as the race before the cutoff.
Oh damn :( I had a neat idea for an aasimar character. What if the character is currently in a PFS game when the cutoff begins?
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Oh damn :( I had a neat idea for an aasimar character. What if the character is currently in a PFS game when the cutoff begins?Is it okay to re-build a level one character with two credits into an aasimar?GM credits, yes. Player Credits, no. Unless you have GM credits, you will have to have actually played as the race before the cutoff.
That should be fine. As long as the character has been played with 1 xp before the cutoff, you're grandfathered in.