Hello,
Right now my players are in the Carrion Crown adventure path, and I started wondering what would be a good AP to take next after this one.
I know I don't like Wrath of the Righteous, because despite it focusing on demons, I'd have to delve into the new Mythic rules, and I really don't want to do that.
Now, I personally prefer horror themes and difficult moral choices, and to lighten things up some humor. I've bought the Harrow deck as well, and would like to use that an adventure Path (I read that Curse of the Crimson Throne uses it in the first adventure; does the deck feature in the rest of the series?). I also like Ustalav as a setting, though I am not really all that particular. I don't want to have to greatly modify an AP; that's not why I buy adventure modules in the first place. Note that my players are used to nasty dungeon crawls, so intense combat isn't something we shy from.
Advice would be appreciated, just please tell me what sorts of enemies are featured in each AP, and what you think would be best. There are so many AP's out there right now that I really don't know which to choose!
I have all 4 Bestiaries, all of the racial booklets, even all of the Ultimate books save Campaigns. I even have We Be Goblins!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Reign of Winter!
it has hard moral choices, its super easy to run right out of the book without making tons of changes and has The Best Adventure in the History of Table top gaming which is Rasputin Must Die! it also has many dark faerie tale elements from Children's stories. the monsters are all over the palce, lots of cold usimg f&+%ers but has a lot more variety then that.
Curse of the Crimson Throne is one of the best (so says everyone on these boards, i have only book 1, but its really good!) the problem with it is its for 3.5 so you'll have to convert it
Rise of the Runelords anniversay edition is also spectaular and comes all in one book so its easier on the wallet, it also has many horror elements (haunted house, tracking serial killer, the hills have eyes) and has some great adventures in it.
thats all the time i have, let us know what you decide:) good gaming!
If your group loves to roleplay then CotCT is the best AP. Otherwise I'd go with Kingmaker or RotRL AR, whichever rocks your boat more.
Kingmaker is a player driven sandbox campaign, not everyone's cup of tea, also has a lot of paperwork (kingdom building from scratch and all)
If your group loves to roleplay then CotCT is the best AP. Otherwise I'd go with Kingmaker or RotRL AR, whichever rocks your boat more.
What is "RotRL AR"?
Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, its the first AP updated to pathfinder,
also it turns out wrath of the righteous can easily be done without mythic adventures (it may even be better without it)
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest Iron Gods. The first part of the AP is absolutely fantastic. The drawback is that you'll need the Technology Guide, but I've heard rumor that is going to be provided online as a PRD much like the rulebooks seeing it's an important part of the AP itself.
Runelords is a superb adventure and costs less than other APs seeing it's one book, so if cost is a factor, you might want Runelords. There is also a lot of fan-made material available for it.
Reign of Winter is a lot of fun, but there are a couple small issues with the start. First, it's lethal. The combination of snowing and constant difficult terrain means no five-foot steps, archery is difficult, and as a result you could easy end up with a Total Party Kill. Second, the snowfall and difficult terrain can be quite frustrating, both for the players and for the GM. I know that I ended up ignoring the snow after a bit because it was too much (I incorporated Mythic into it, and the spell "Mythic Endure Elements" basically gives the players a "get out of snow nearly free" pass).
also it turns out wrath of the righteous can easily be done without mythic adventures (it may even be better without it)
Really? Could you give me more information?
I have been eyeing Legacy of Fire, simply because it takes the PC's extraplanar, and I like Planescape style games. Does anyone know about this AP?
Mummy's Mask is bound to involve undead, a staple of horror games, but I don't know anything about the adventure series.
I think Kingmaker is a bad idea for my group. They aren't the types to get into building a castle community, and two of my players are still on the new side of gaming.
Reign of Winter sounds interesting. If there were ways to compensate for the terrain, like snowshoes, wouldn't it be less lethal?
snow shoes and ski's are all easily attainable, it is also easy to omit it all together.
Mummy's Mask is awesome, a true representation of what an Egyptian Campaign should be, some dont like it, i'm not one of those people.
i havent looked too much into doing away with mythic for WotR however its crazy easy with mythic and i've heard tell of others doing it just fine.
There are. The problem is that the way the adventure is written, the players don't have access to that.
However, you can easily modify it so the starting location is someplace further north. Whether or not the players pick up snowshoes is up to your characters. I do know my group, the second they heard "oddly cold weather" the characters who could memorized Endure Elements (prior to my incorporating Mythic) and bought cold weather gear.
You'd think they're paranoid of me or something. ^^;;
But yeah. You can always include snowshoes as something that can be purchased, and have the guard at the start mention the snowfall; he could even mention he tried tracking the bandits at the start and the snow was soon over a foot deep and slowed him down too much.
------
I own Legacy of Fire but haven't read through it all yet. I have heard that there are problems with some places of the AP, but it's a fairly good AP all the same.
As for running WotR as a non-Mythic game? The game provides suggestions on how to run it without Mythic PCs by giving everyone extra Hero Points and stat boosts. It really depends on how many players you have and how skilled they are. If you have five or six players, then you easily could run it as a non-Mythic game as the extra action economy of the extra players will help.
I keep intending on running it as an all-NPC trial-game without Mythic rules but Elder Scrolls Online has been distracting me. ^^;; That said, the first book of the AP isn't Mythic. The second will be difficult (as I've heard some parts are lethal to Mythic players). The third? Cakewalk. Seriously. I've heard people complain that the encounters were entirely too underpowered. I'm inclined to believe them.
What I would do is run the game as non-Mythic and ignore any abilities that are active Mythic abilities (but allow passive abilities to remain - like the extra damage from Mythic Power Attack or Mythic Deadly Aim). And if you have Hero Labs, you could just strip out the Mythic from anything that IS Mythic and be done with it.
Small note - you might want to do trial runs of tough encounters ahead of time to make sure they're not too lethal. But I tend to do that for non-mythic games in any event. ^^;;
Are there any adventure paths besides Carrion Crown that have a focus on or similarity to horror?
Book 2 and 3 of Runelords has some significant horror elements to it, and the very start of Book 6 does as well.
Reign of Winter has numerous horrific elements (dark faerie tales) that can easily be played for the horrific elements.
I suppose there is horror elements in Mummy's Mask as well, but I didn't notice them as much.
Here's the list:
Rise of the Runelords
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Second Darkness
Legacy of Fire
Council of Thieves
Kingmaker
Serpent's Skull
Carrion Crown
Jade Regent
Skull & Shackles
Shattered Star
Reign of Winter
Wrath of the Righteous
Mummy's Mask
Iron Gods
Of these, we can eliminate Carrion Crown as we are already adventuring in it. Then too, I think Kingmaker is inappropriate for this bunch as they aren't the sorts to get into nation building. Finally, Wrath of the Righteous seems like a bad idea since I would have to use Mythic rules for it, or find a way to just use regular rules for it.
Does anyone know of reasons to omit the other adventures from consideration, like compatibility with Pathfinder etc?
This leaves:
Rise of the Runelords
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Second Darkness
Legacy of Fire
Council of Thieves
Serpent's Skull
Jade Regent
Skull & Shackles
Shattered Star
Reign of Winter
Mummy's Mask
Iron Gods
Now, what these guys are used to is traditional dungeon crawls and the Carrion Crown AP.
Book 2 and 3 of Runelords has some significant horror elements to it, and the very start of Book 6 does as well.
Reign of Winter has numerous horrific elements (dark faerie tales) that can easily be played for the horrific elements.
I suppose there is horror elements in Mummy's Mask as well, but I didn't notice them as much.
Have you played Mummy's Mask or run it?
What AP's have you guys run or played in?
I know Second Darkness and CotCT is 3.5 - I don't know if Legacy of Fire is or not, but I think it is.
Council of Thieves was disliked by quite a few because it ends on a lower level (14 or 15).
Serpent's Skull was fairly cool but I've not run it; I know one of the books was not considered well by people.
Shattered Star is said to be dungeon crawls primarily. One complaint about Mummy's Mask was the number of dungeon crawls (though the combat system for libraries was innovative). Iron Gods is so far a dungeon crawl set in a "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" type setting.
Edit: I've run Runelords and RoW (or am currently running, I should say). Oh, and Night Below, but that's AD&D ;)
How much effort is it to retrofit Second Darkness and Curse of the Crimson Throne, or do you even bother doing so when running it for Pathfinder?
Well, Carrion Crown ends at 15th level too. Personally I would like to find an AP that would take the players to 20th level!
So far I am leaning toward Rise of the Runelords, but the mummy adventure series looks interesting.
If we eliminate the 3.5 adventures, we are left with:
This leaves:
Rise of the Runelords
Legacy of Fire
Council of Thieves
Serpent's Skull
Jade Regent
Skull & Shackles
Shattered Star
Reign of Winter
Mummy's Mask
Iron Gods
By far, the shortest adventure is Skull & Shackles, which ends at 13th level. Wrath of the Righteous is the longest at ending at 18th, but it assumes that mythic rules are being used and I don't want to do that.
Looks like Legacy of Fire needs retrofitting as well for 3.5. Therefore I will eliminate it.
This leaves:
Rise of the Runelords
Council of Thieves
Serpent's Skull
Jade Regent
Skull & Shackles
Shattered Star
Reign of Winter
Mummy's Mask
Iron Gods
I'll throw in my vote for Curse of the Crimson Throne. I'm a super fanboy for it. I'd have a life-size Queen Ileosa poster in my room if that weren't, like, weird... There is some work involved in converting to Pathfinder, but it's really just bumping up encounters. The great part about the older ones is that these selfsame messageboards usually have a lot of great encounter conversions. I use Steev42's conversions when I don't just remake the encounter on Hero Lab.
The story is great and has a lot of variety and space for downtime, being a city campaign for 60% of the AP. There are actually a lot of horror elements in CotCT, and where they aren't explicit it's pretty easy to adjust an atmosphere to make it more spooky.
... It's tight. I love it =S
By far, the shortest adventure is Skull & Shackles, which ends at 13th level. Wrath of the Righteous is the longest at ending at 18th, but it assumes that mythic rules are being used and I don't want to do that.
Shackles should end with the characters around 15th level actually, and Council of Thieves ends at 13th level or so. Having just finished CoT I can tell you it is an interesting adventure, though I feel the 4th book should have been bumped to the end thematically.
Considering what I know of Rise of the Runelords I'd say that is the adventure for you if you like horror beyond Carrion Crown.
I'll throw in my vote for Curse of the Crimson Throne.
......
I thought it was a 3.5 adventure, therefore I'd have to retrofit it to make it usable....
I thought it was a 3.5 adventure, therefore I'd have to retrofit it to make it usable....I'll throw in my vote for Curse of the Crimson Throne.
......
It is a 3.5 adventure. And you would need adjustments. In multiple ways. Seriously though, I will type out a frikkin' book of changes for you if it'll get you to play this thing. I'll reread every one of my modules and make addenda to every single page.
Besides, if you already have the Harrow deck (which is pretty fun when you let it do its thing) you might as well run the AP that it was published for.
How much does the Harrow deck factor into Curse of the Crimson Throne? Is it just one appearance, or will it be a serious factor in the campaign?
Right now, I'm between Reign of Winter, Mummy's Mask (horror undead themes), Curse of the Crimson Throne (but only because of the Harrow deck), and the current favorite Rise of the Runelords (because of the cheap and horror themes).
|
While usually I too would recommend CotCT, I think that since Picolo seems to really be looking to avoid a conversion from 3.5, I have to recommend RISE OF THE RUNELORDS, anniversary edition.
Merits:
1) It's Pathfinder, so no conversion
2) Lots of horror themes, especially in the first half of the AP.
3) Some really awesome chances to roleplay, with a small town that the players are supposed to get attached to, murder mysteries to solve, and so many whacky goblins.
4) Very streamlined, adventures are connected much better than in CARRION CROWN. Note that this is mostly true for the anniversary edition, but that's the one you are looking for anyway.
Potential problems:
1) Horror themes all but disappear in parts 4 and 5, although they make a very decent resurgence in the final part.
2) Lots of dungeon crawls - this is a "classic D&D with a wicked twist" AP. Meaning that alongside all the horror, there's a lot of regular adventuring - parts 4 and 5 are especially like this.
3) It's not Curse of the Crimson Throne
Hope this is helpful :)
I'd say "No Rakshasa" is a pretty big negative too. You know, in my opinion.
????
Considering your appreciation for the Horror Genre (yay for horror i was always say:) i would highly recommend Mummy's Mask.
Well, one thing is for certain, this is a hard choice!
I know what a Deck of Many Things is, but what's a Harrow Deck of Many Things?
I put in a bid for (used) Rise of the Runelords for $20, but there's 5 days left on the auction so I don't know if I'll get it. It was so cheap I had to try. Dunno if that's the adventure series I want to run or not.
its the deck of many things, it uses the harrow deck instead of regular deck of cards.
I know you've already written off Legacy of Fire but it is a good AP but my biggest beef with it was that you go from the end of part 3 to the of part 5 without stepping into civilization. You can't sell or buy loot and I recall that by the end of part 5 we were all severely undergeared.
I ranked the various APs here
I'm sure others will disagree with many of my rankings.
I know you've already written off Legacy of Fire but it is a good AP but my biggest beef with it was that you go from the end of part 3 to the of part 5 without stepping into civilization. You can't sell or buy loot and I recall that by the end of part 5 we were all severely undergeared.
I ranked the various APs here
I'm sure others will disagree with many of my rankings.
I definitely like the fact that you included your overall impression of each AP. This really helps.
Unfortunately, I am still stuck at choosing between Reign of Winter, Mummy's Mask, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Rise of the Runelords.
So, you found that the final boss in Carrion Crown part 6 was too weak? Why?
Of what use are the various pawn collections? I have miniatures already.
Also, will there be a collected updated versions of the other 3.5 adventures? They would be good sellers.
Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, its the first AP updated to pathfinder,
Speaking of which, anyone know if Paizo plans to release converted editions of any of the Adventure Paths in between Rise of the Runelords and Council of Thieves?
Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, its the first AP updated to pathfinder,Speaking of which, anyone know if Paizo plans to release converted editions of any of the Adventure Paths in between Rise of the Runelords and Council of Thieves?
Basically, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and Legacy of Fire could all stand to be updated/corrected to Pathfinder. What say we start up a petition to Paizo about updating these 3 adventures in the same manner of Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition?
|
|
Of what use are the various pawn collections? I have miniatures already.
Also, will there be a collected updated versions of the other 3.5 adventures? They would be good sellers.
1) The pawn collections are good because they have everything you need specifically for the AP - it has pawns for every creature in every encounter, for major NPCs and villains, etc.
2) I think that every 3.5 AP that will be compiled and updated would be a great product, but sadly for me, Paizo disagrees. As far as public knowledge goes, they made it very clear they have no intention of doing anything like it any time soon.
The old 3.5 APs will not be updated with Anniversary Editions until the stars are right. Er, I mean until much of the backstock is sold off. So if you want to see these as Anniversary Editions... buy the old ones so that there will be a supply problem.
Small note: revising the old AP and reprinting it as a hardcover edition does take a bit of time and effort. So there may be delays for existing APs in order to do such a thing. This is another reason Paizo isn't exactly in a rush to do this.
Maybe if we make enough noise about it, ie petition them, they'd do it? Let's be honest, printing a revised collected edition is less effort than producing a brand new AP. And it would still make them money, in fact other people would buy the new edition even if they had the old, just to get the updates.
I noticed that the pawn collections don't include stands; you have to buy the bestiary pawn collection first to get stands. That strikes me as pretty stupid. If its a question of money, I might pay more to get the stands as well.
They actually sell the stands separately now. So you can buy just the stands to use with the other pawns. Considering I'm even doing my tabletop game using Roll20 for the maps (far easier to determine distances and accurately show things), I just plan on buying the PDF of the Pawns anyway for use online.
And no. Printing a revised collected edition isn't necessarily less effort. A lot of work went into the Anniversary Edition of Runelords. First, you have to adapt everything into Pathfinder, which could even include removing monsters that Paizo lacks the rights to (in case any beholders or the like were in the 3.5 APs). Second, you might need to revise tactics due to modifications of the monsters. You might need to replace some monsters if they are overpowered in the new system. You do have to revise classes, add feats and skill points, and more for those encounters that have class levels.
There's editing of the journal, revised page numbers for various aspects, and the people working on the Anniversary Edition who are being pulled from other projects to work on this. And there are closing plot holes and discrepancies that people complained about - for instance, the Anniversary Edition of Runelords has been changed in several places from the original game, including how they deal with the Black Magga encounter and the fight with Xanesha. There's integrating the side encounters into the main book itself or phasing them out in some cases.
It's not a matter of lumping them all together and printing it as a new book. A lot of hard work went into the Anniversary Edition of Runelords.
Last, the more Anniversary Editions they make, the harder it is to sell the AP subscriptions. For instance, I originally wanted to wait before buying Reign of Winter because I'd gotten the Anniversary Edition of Runelords and felt they'd just put out a compilation in a few years. I'm not the only person who undoubtedly believed that. Why spend $120 for an AP when you can spend $60 for a compilation a few years later?
So there are legitimate business reasons behind this that Paizo has expressed before (and as an abstracter of business journals and the like, I've an understanding of the business model and why AEs can ultimately damage Paizo's bottom line).
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Last, the more Anniversary Editions they make, the harder it is to sell the AP subscriptions. For instance, I originally wanted to wait before buying Reign of Winter because I'd gotten the Anniversary Edition of Runelords and felt they'd just put out a compilation in a few years. I'm not the only person who undoubtedly believed that. Why spend $120 for an AP when you can spend $60 for a compilation a few years later?
It's easy enough to make sure to market the revised editions as a project to update the 3.5 APs. They could announce it that way and then include a small paragraph at the opening of each such book that clarifies that only the 3.5 APs are getting the treatment.
The "our customers are too stupid to be able to understand that we are only compiling the 3.5 APs" argument never worked for me. I can understand why Paizo don't want to do those compilations - they would rather spend their time and effort doing something new, and working on the RotRL RE was a ton of extra working hours for all of them. But explaining that it is impossible because the customers can't understand a simple concept? nonsensical.
I agree, why can't we petition for updates to the 3.5 material?!
|
I doubt any amount of petitioning will change anything. I'm pretty sure Paizo has ran calculations on what they'll earn and what they'll lose by doing an updated of 3.5 APs and based their decision on that, taking sales of RotRL AE into the account, and the amount of work and disruption that book caused.
What people ask for and what people want to spend money on are not always the same. Back during the Dragon/Dungeon days, dozens of people vocally requested an art book and were ready to sign a petition for that to happen. Paizo listened, Art of Dragon Magazine Hardcover happened, and now they have hundreds of those discounted to 4 USD and taking up shelf space.
Coincidentally, I think that the deluxe RotRL AE edition (the 200 USD leather one) is going to meet the same fate.
My recommendations, based on AP's I've run or read, are (in order of "which AP would I recommend the most):
1.) Jade Regent
2.) Curse of the Crimson Throne
3.) Rise of the Runelords AE
4.) Shattered Star
5.) Carrion Crown
6.) Wrath of the Righteous (in a variant without the catastrophic mythic rules)
7.) Anything else
8.) Kingmaker