The why of replaying scenarios...


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


There was a thread at one point on how to replay a scenario; issues on whether you scale the box down to the adventure deck being played or not, etc.

But this is more of why do we have to replay a specific scenario when we are just treasure hunting?

Would the game break terribly if we cherry-picked a number of location cards; and just ran a 30 round blessings just to look for loot?

1) We don't get the scenario bonus anyway, so that card doesn't do much other than adds power to deal with.

2) We are not trying to win the scenario; so henchman & villains are not needed. Villains would only cause locations to close early which is not desirable anyway. Plus the past villains would be little challenge if you were coming back to deck 2 from a deck 5 current position, for example.

I can understand disallowing locations cards as they may be part of the plot; but any location from a previous deck shouldn't be an issue.

I also understand that I could just house rule this (and probably will); I'm just curious if there was a specific reason why the 'lock' of only previous scenario replays during an adventure path is there. Is there something of significance I'm missing to approaching treasure hunting this way instead?

Pathfinder ACG Designer

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Because you're not playing the game then? There's no risk, just reward?


If you do that enough times, you will eventually get all the boons you want.

You might as well save your time and just build the deck you want right out of the box.


Tanis O'Connor wrote:
Because you're not playing the game then? There's no risk, just reward?

I'd argue that going back to the before mentioned deck 2 scenario with deck 5 characters is still a no risk, just reward situation. Villains and Henchmen would be speed bumps.

But what I'm asking is what the thought was behind the 'only can replay previous scenarios during a adventure path' thing. The rules are not clear cut on how the replay option is supposed to work and it's subject to interpretation. If we redid deck 2 with deck 5 characters, do we 'roll back' the box to deck 2 status or just leave things as is? If left as is, do we adjust villains or henchman difficulty to account for deck 5 characters? What was the intent for how replays are supposed to work? It is not clear and feels like an arbitrary decision that was not thought out all the way.


KidDangerous wrote:

If you do that enough times, you will eventually get all the boons you want.

You might as well save your time and just build the deck you want right out of the box.

Actually, since shuffling happens; it's just as possible to NEVER see a boon you are hunting for. However, you can intentionally reach locations that call for a card banish to intentionally thin your deck below it's required spec and then you CAN choose a boon of the proper category from 2 decks back when rebuilding your deck.

I'd LOVE to keep with the rules as much as possible, but the rules are not specific enough to make an intelligent choice on which scenario would give me the best chance of finding the cards I need. I am currently deadlocked in my solo adventure when (at best) I have a 1/36 chance of even REACHING the boss; I'm not really in danger of dying, but I just don't have the cards I need to close a location.

Grand Lodge

I mentioned in that other thread that we've replayed two scenarios because we finished them too quickly. Now we replayed them immediately after finishing it the first time. The second time around, we managed to get some boons.

But we didn't take higher levels and farm a lower scenario.

I think a basic rule is if you're going to replay a scenario to get another chance at boons then you stick to the same level adventure, i.e. If you're playing in the 3rd deck, only replay previous 3rd adv deck scenarios.

Otherwise just pick from the box ... :-P


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, I sometimes replay scenarios for fun, but only of the current adventure pack. Anything less than that and I find it is too easy, so gets boring.

Besides, by the time I get to the end of adventure pack 3 say, there are very few cards left I would want from adventure pack 2 and haven't already picked up. Just seems to defeat the purpose since there is very little risk and also very little reward.

However, it's a cooperative game, so if you (and anyone else you play with) is happy, do whatever you enjoy the most. More power to you.

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

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Philosophically:
There is a thing we card game designers call the power curve. It allows us to say "By adventure 5, the characters should have about this much stuff and be able to mete out about this much punishment." So when we design adventure 5, our banes are such that they can withstand some amount of that punishment. If you farm everything in consequence-free play, you massacre everything in your path in later adventures. And then you might believe that the game seems a bit too easy.

Mechanically:
Because when you farm everything good, all you have to acquire the next time you play is everything you previously rejected.


Alright, let's try this from the other direction.... here's the issue:

Current Scenario: Deck 5 Scenario 5 (Into the Runeforge)
Character: Valerous soloing

Step Up: 2 locations with Villain in one which cannot be accessed until the other is closed. The other requires an INT/Knowledge 12 check to close.

Valerous has a d6 INT with no bonuses and no cards that specifically boosts INT. So he has to use a blessing just to have a chance at closing. This is the problem.

Replaying this scenario is useless as there are only 3 boons in the setup and they're weapons.

So the question is which scenario would you replay and why:

(one or more of the following is needed)

Tome of Knowledge,
Clockwork Librainan,
Sage,
Irori or Gozeth Blessings.


Replay any of the deck 5 scenarios. Rimeskull seems promising but they all have potential.

Grand Lodge

Ironvein wrote:

Alright, let's try this from the other direction.... here's the issue:

Current Scenario: Deck 5 Scenario 5 (Into the Runeforge)
Character: Valerous soloing

Step Up: 2 locations with Villain in one which cannot be accessed until the other is closed. The other requires an INT/Knowledge 12 check to close.

Valerous has a d6 INT with no bonuses and no cards that specifically boosts INT. So he has to use a blessing just to have a chance at closing. This is the problem.

Replaying this scenario is useless as there are only 3 boons in the setup and they're weapons.

So the question is which scenario would you replay and why:

(one or more of the following is needed)

Tome of Knowledge,
Clockwork Librainan,
Sage,
Irori or Gozeth Blessings.

Well, the rules don't say either way about replaying scenarios you've completed. All it says is if you did not complete a scenario that you must do so before continuing.

That said, Mike was hinting at the same thing myself and others have stated. That if you replay lower adventure deck scenarios, you're just farming without much consequence. So if you feel like you are missing cards you need to continue, then only do so with a scenario prior to the one you failed but within the same adventure deck. But if you've played adventures that remove lower cards from the game; cards you feel you need now, you're out of luck.


Greyhawke115 wrote:
Replay any of the deck 5 scenarios. Rimeskull seems promising but they all have potential.

Upon looking further, Rimeskull could be a the worst of the scenarios in deck 5 to choose if you have banished the tome.

You could also just substitute a different location of similar difficulty. The rulebook essentially tells you to do this if you run into something your character cannot beat when playing solo. If you really want, you can substitute a different check. Substitute a check to beat a warrior of wrath, or even 2 of them. Is this "cheating"? Maybe, but it seems more in theme and mechanically a similar challenge than just subbing out the location, and a heck of a lot less cheesy than farming deck 2 or 3 scenarios until you get the items you want.

The game can be played with a solo character, but its a real challenge in some places for some characters, especially if you don't look ahead and plan for what's coming. Sometimes you have to tweak it to make it work for you.


Since some cards can be particularly difficult during solo play, the rules suggest removing such a card and replacing it with another of the same type and roughly same power level but isn't quite so impossible to overcome.


One thing I like to do to make the game more interesting is to act like a Dungeon Master. When I look at the upcoming scenario, I put cards into the mix, a new weapon, an item that might help the adventurers. I have no idea which location these cards go into so there is still the issue that the card is never scene or that a character who cannot obtain the card encounters it. I know this is a house rule issue, but at least you have a chance to get past a difficult obstacle and enjoy some of the really cool cards that each Adventure brings to the game.


Malcolm_Reynolds wrote:
Since some cards can be particularly difficult during solo play, the rules suggest removing such a card and replacing it with another of the same type and roughly same power level but isn't quite so impossible to overcome.

I think this answer is the simplest all things considered; although I'd probably swap the location card with another that was listed on the scenario card rather than just swapping for one with a similar difficulty check. More thematic that way.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Well, the rules don't say either way about replaying scenarios you've completed. All it says is if you did not complete a scenario that you must do so before continuing.

Correct. Replaying completed scenarios is outside of the scope of the standard rules. If you want to do it, we're not going to stop you—it's your game, after all!—but you should be aware that you that can easily make the game a lot less fun than we intended if you are not careful.

That said, the Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild *does* support replaying scenarios you've completed, and the rules for that will be out later this week. They should translate to standard play reasonably well.

Grand Lodge

Thanks for the confirmation, Vic. I felt from the start as I looked at some other people's characters at the halfway and further that I was missing out on some essential boons. And then I realized that we were completing some scenarios really quick. And that meant we lost out on gaining some decent replacement cards. And that's when we decided to replay if we finished too fast. It's worked out okay. But we did search through the rulebook to see if it was against the rules.

Also interested to see the whys of wanting to replay OP scenarios. Looking forward to what pops up here in the next couple of days! We've already packed our big stuff in a friend's truck. Just waiting for new rules and such to print and pop on my iPad.

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