Bard, Inquisitor, Ranger, Barbarian, Sorcerer, Cleric, Witch, Druid
I might replace the druid or cleric with slayer for a non magical warrior/skill type.
Ranger, Paladin, Oracle, Inquisitor, Bard, Sorcerer. Last two would probably be druid and magus. I think overall the 6-level spellcasting classes have been built well, with the exception of the summoner, so they'd mostly make the cut. I think the oracle and druid will fulfill the roles of holy men nicely. Rangers and paladins are elite warriors; if I just need a guy who's good with a weapon, I can let an NPC warrior into the fray, or a spell-less ranger or paladin. The sorcerer fits the bill more for my wizardly-types in lots of fantasy and really, just cooler than a wizard to me. I can call myself an evoker if I take a ton of spells of that school just fine. Looking at my list, it seems I like magic but understand it can cause problems.
Ok, what 8 would I use?
Barbarian, Fighter, Kineticist, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Slayer, Swashbuckler
Hint: I dislike spellcasting
If you're talking about a 2nd ed PF someday, I would play it safe by sticking to CRB classes. Am I crazy, or a grognard? Maybe, but doing so will appease the greatest number of people. However! The designers would obviously absorb elements or concepts from newer classes into the classics.
Alchemist, Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer.
If you're talking about a 2nd ed PF someday, I would play it safe by sticking to CRB classes. Am I crazy, or a grognard? Maybe, but doing so will appease the greatest number of people. However! The designers would obviously absorb elements or concepts from newer classes into the classics.
I don't know. Perhaps the names (since they're far more recognizable) but I think a PF 2.0 would be well served by doing something along the lines of:
-Keeping the Barbarian (trim down some of the crappier Rage Powers or roll some into one, like the skill boosters)
-Keep Bard/Cleric as-is, or mostly so.
-Make the Druid work more like the Shaman, but find a way to work Wild Shape in there. Perhaps give a choice between Wandering Spirit with Animal Companion and the extra spells from the spirits, and none of those three for Wild Shape.
-Merging Wizard/Sorcerer into one class (Make your choice between Prepared/Spontaneous at first level and introduce a middle ground between Schools and Bloodlines).
-Keep Fighter (with massive improvements)
-Replace Monk mechanics with Brawler (add a bit more mysticism back in and call it the Monk, perhaps. There's room for it on the Brawler chassis IMO), and keep the name.
-Keeping the Ranger name, but the Slayer mechanics (and expand on the variety of Slayer Talents).
-Keep the Rogue name, but give it many of the Alchemist mechanics.
-Drop the Paladin for the Inquisitor.
-One or two new classes to fill some basic conceptual niches (something like the Magus).
That helps not carrying on the problems of the Core classes into the next game.
If you're talking about a 2nd ed PF someday, I would play it safe by sticking to CRB classes. Am I crazy, or a grognard? Maybe, but doing so will appease the greatest number of people. However! The designers would obviously absorb elements or concepts from newer classes into the classics.I don't know. Perhaps the names (since they're far more recognizable) but I think a PF 2.0 would be well served by doing something along the lines of:
...examples...
If you realize it or not, you've basically agreed with me. :)
I have a custom 12 sided die that was meant to roll classes in D&D. It worked in Pathfinder until the Advanced Players Guide was released -
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Wizard
Other
More than 12 sides and a custom die becomes prohibitively expensive.
If we're talking about a Pathfinder 2.0(?), we definitely could use some reduction of class bloat (and we've got MORE CLASSES on the way, and I am not convinced of the need for them, or that they will not be bug-ridden, given all the Errata that the ACG still needs, although I'm going to include some ACG stuff anyway). But before doing this, first: Make Base Saves, Base Attack Bonus, Hit Dice, Spellcasting Progression (rate not just spell number offset), and Prepared vs Spontaneous spellcasting be additional fair game for change by Archetypes (the last two might already be considered fair game, but putting that in here just in case). What I propose below would create a profusion of Archetypes, so to reduce this, I would make a lot more of the Class Features and Alternate Class Features available a-la-carte by way of Feats and Feat Chains. Also, spellcasters would be made intentionally MAD to start out with, with Archetypes removing some of the Attribute Dependence in exchange for locking down certain Class Features (by default, Intelligence combines with Caster Level to determine maximum Spells Known; Wisdom combines with Caster Level to determine maximum different Spells Prepared; and Charisma combines with Caster Level to determine maximum Spells Cast per Day); substitute Extracts for Spells where necessary.
Rename Investigator to Alchemist; move the Investigator name to the more sleuthy Archetypes of this, except move the actual Sleuth Archetype (which trades out Extracts) over to the Aristocrat/Expert/Monk/Ninja/Rogue/Slayer Blend/Rebuild below; rebuild the original Alchemist as another set of Archetypes of this (the original Alchemist Class seems rather dangerous to its own practitioner, even compared to the dangers most other Classes put themselves into).
Rebuild Sorcerer, Witch, and Wizard as Archetypes of this. Rebuild Bard, Magus, and Summoner as different Archetypes of this that trade speed of spellcasting progression (but retain prepared, spontaneous, and blended options for each) for d8 HD and 3/4 BAB and additional Class Features; the Bard specializes in performance mangic (Brave Sir Robin's Minstrels have to go somewhere, so here they go); the Magus specializes in combat spellcasting; the Summoner specializes in Conjuration. Speaking of Magus, make an Arcane Archer sub-Archetype that actually works (unlike the Myrmidarch). For even more fun, add further Archetypes that trade speed of spellcasting progression for d8 HD and 3/4 BAB and additional Class Features, but have different types of specialization (Dread Necromancer, anyone?). While we're at it, unify the mechanics for Arcane Schools with those for Sorcerer Bloodlines, and also make the Sorcerer Bloodlines usable as Bloodrager Bloodlines so that you don't have to have separate sets of Bloodlines (and last but not least, ORGANIZE THEM BETTER -- finding which Wildblood Lines go with which primary Bloodlines is a pain -- at least organize them like the Domains and Subdomains, which is much better even though still not ideal).
Rebuild all of these on a Rogue-like chassis with default d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, but Sneak Attack is an option instead of being enforced, and Talents are expanded to include Nobility/Tycoon and Professional Talents, as well as Dilettante Class Talents that allow gradual progression of Class Features from other Classes. Nobility/Tycoon and Professional Talents form trees that let you build Aristocratic and Professional characters that are not combat-focused, but can move events to turn the tide of a battle long before it is ever started. See Fighter Rebuild for the actual Slayer Archetype, and see Alchemist as renamed Investigator for actual Investigator Archetypes, but Slayer and Investigator Talents are also accessible here. While at first glance Aristocrats and Rogues don't seem to fit into one Class umbrella, keep in mind that Robber Barons aren't called Robber Barons without reason. Diplomancers go in here too. Also, rebuild Monk as a Prestige Class intended to start preferentially from Ninja Archetype of this or Brawler Archetype of Fighter (below).
The Cleric as it stands now is powerful but has a tendency to be boring, and the Domains as they are now don't really cut it for adding flavor. I want back something like what 2nd Edition had with Specialty Priests and Spheres of spell access, with the flavor retained (and even further fleshed out) but with the bugs worked out. Rebuild the Cleric as a 6/9 or 7/9 caster on an Inquisitor-style chassis with elements of Oracle (make Domains work like Mysteries, but add more than 1 spell per level while trimming the general Spell List, and when they add a spell that you already have on your Spell List, they provide some added benefit) and Warpriest (including optional prepared or blended spellcasting). Channeling would be an option that Clerics could gain in Archetypes. Make Druid into Archetypes of this. Move the Inquisitor name and backstory/roleplaying role over to a Prestige Class designed to be preferentially accessed from Cleric (which makes more conceptual sense than having them start out of the box as Inquisitors) but provide for them to start their own optionally spontaneous spellcasting progression if you manage to enter with no previous spellcasting. Detach Oracle's Curse so that it is accessible to all Classes, and rename it to something like "Accursed Blessing"; not sure whether it should be accessed through a Feat or a Trait or be its own thing altogether. Make Oracle and Priest be spontaneous and prepared Archetypes of this that gain full 9/9 spellcasting in exchange for 1/2 BAB and d6 HD. Make Shaman yet another Archetype of this, fitting into a spectrum of Druidic Archetypes of this.
Increase Fighter's default Hit Dice to d12; increase default Skill Ranks per Level to 4 + IntMod; at higher levels, also make Bonus Feats turn into Bonus Feat Chains of gradually increasing length; remove Chaff from Combat Feats and their prerequisites. Rebuild Barbarian, Brawler, Cavalier/Samurai, Gunslinger, non-spellcasting Ranger Archetypes, Slayer, and Swashbuckler as Fighter Archetypes (most of which change Hit Dice to d10). Rebuild Bloodrager as a Prestige Class intended to start preferentially from Fighter (requires Rage and Bloodline Class Features); if you enter with no spellcasting, it starts its own Bloodrager spellcasting progression. Rebuild Paladin (and Anti-Paladin) as special cases of a Holy Warrior Prestige Class intended to start preferentially from Fighter (requires Challenge Class Feature); if you enter with no spellcasting, it starts its own Holy Warrior spellcasting progression, unless you trade this out for something else. Rebuild Hunter and spellcasting Ranger Archetypes as a Prestige Class intended to start preferentially from Fighter (requires Druidic Training Class Feature); if you enter with no spellcasting progression, it starts with its own Ranger/Hunter spellcasting progression. Also rebuild Monk as a Prestige Class intended to start preferentially from Brawler Archetype of this or from Ninja Archetype of Aristocrat/Expert/Monk/Ninja/Rogue/Slayer Blend/Rebuild (above).
It might be possible to unify the Arcane and Divine spellcasters into one Base Class with even more Archetypes, but I'll leave them separate for the first go-around (if they were to be unified, I would say make Arcane Schools and Bloodlines work more like Oracle Mysteries, including providing access or improved access to more spells). Not yet ready to include Occult Adventures material, but I would try to shoehorn as much of it as possible into the above. I have left some spaces open to include whichever ones of Occult Adventures can't be shoehorned in above, as well as the Dreamscarred Press Psionic Classes (Soulknife would fit under the Fighter Rebuild as an Archetype, but the other Psionic Base Classes would need their own entry). Note that I bumped some Base Classes into being Prestige Classes. Not detailed above (except for the Arcane Archer), some Prestige Classes could be replaced by Base Class Archetypes.
Slayer: The slayer covers three core classes with ease (two of which being part of the big 4). It can be your fighter, rogue, or ranger. It's unique mechanic is cooler than weapon training and studied target and is the best representation of "skilled fighting dude."
Barbarian: The barbarian covers fighter and ranger as well, but with a ferocious theme instead of a skillful theme. It is the perfect foil to the Slayer. Together with the Slayer, most fighting dude concepts can be created. Can also wear heavy armor with an archetype, further letting one be a "fighter." Through certain rage powers, the beast morphy/werewolf-like character is possible too.
Brawler: The last full BaB class required to cover the rest of the concepts. The brawler is the fist fighting dude. He can also be a standard fighter dude if you use close weapons instead of fists. Through mutagenic mauler, the beast morphy/werewolf-like character is possible too.
Bard: Bards can be bards, skalds, magical tacticians, orators, magical fighters, and many other fantasy archetypes. They are well balanced and making being the "skill guy" or the "buffing guy" very fun. Using a bard, a player can make a very fun and balanced character.
Inquisitor:Personal preference here. To me, inquisitors mechanically make the best divinely-powered warriors. They have stern gazes and can pass judgement. They have tons of skill points to spend on being well rounded characters. Between the slayer, the bard, and the inquisitor, I think that my setting would have enough "skill guy" classes.
Magus: Magus is Pathfinder's best rendition of the fighter-mage. Not only that, the magus is a very fun and well designed class. I'd have to be a fool not to include magus when so many players often want "some kind of magical swordsman." I personally prefer the spontaneous archetype in ACG, due to my preference for magic not being attainable via study. However my personal preference against this class's spellcasting feature is not enough for me to override the best magical swordsman class.
Sorcerer: Personal preference here. I hate the idea of learned magic. I'd rather magic be something a person is born with, makes a deal to get, or is granted. Bloodlines are an insanely cool mechanic too. Lastly, I find spontaneous spellcasters more balanced.
Oracle: My opinion of the Oracle is identical to the sorcerer. Mysteries are also too cool to ever want to give up. I'd want Oracles over Clerics in my setting every day. You don't need to be a cleric to be a preacher. You could be a commoner, expert, slayer, or sorcerer and be a preacher. Save the real divine magic for a character granted it.
Advanced class guide is out, I have probably changed, and we finished the playtest to Occult mysteries. So I guess I should update my post?
Slayer: For all of the reasons of my previous post plus the realization that their class features don't require medium armor proficiency. You can just take the feat.
Barbarian: Same reasons as above.
Brawler: Same reasons as above.
Bard: Same reasons as above.
Inquisitor: Same reasons as above.
Magus: Same as above.
Arcanist: With all of its archetypes, you can easily fluff yourself as a wizard, sorcerer, or whatever else you want. Obviously Quick Study is a huge downside to this, but if we got control over classes, hopefully we are allowed to make minor adjustments.
Shaman: Shaman grew on me considerably. It is now my favorite divine spellcaster, and has enough fun class features that I think most players will not get bored with it. Between it and an Inquisitor, I'd hope that most players could fulfill their divine character concepts.
Here's how I like to break it up.
.
.
.
.
Core Classes (Core Rule Book)
Warrior Class: Fighter
Divine Hybrid: Paladin
Divine Caster: Cleric
Specialist Class: Rogue
Arcane Hybrid: Bard
Arcane Caster: Wizard
Core Variants (Core Rule Book)
Warrior Class: Barbarian
Divine Hybrid: Ranger
Divine Caster: Druid
Specialist Class: Monk
Arcane Hybrid: My own custom class
Arcane Caster: Sorcerer
Advanced Variants (Advanced Player's Guide)
Warrior Class: Cavalier
Divine Hybrid: Inquisitor
Divine Caster: Oracle
Specialist Class: Alchemist
Arcane Hybrid: Summoner
Arcane Caster: Witch
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Like many mine is based on setting. But I've been playing around with the idea of running either Serpent's Skull or Mummy's Mask adapted to Pulp Era Earth.
Pulp Adventure
Barbarian (Savage)
Slayer (Adventurer)
Alchemist (Scientist)
Arcanist (Occultist)
Brawler (Martial Artist)
Investigator (Detective)
Gunslinger (Gunslinger)
Oracle (Psychic)
Since Occult Adventures came out, I'm revising this:
Barbarian (Savage)
Slayer (Adventurer)
Alchemist (Scientist)
Occultist
Brawler (Martial Artist)
Investigator (Detective)
Gunslinger (Gunslinger)
Psychic
Alchemist, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Magus, Paladin, Ranger, and Wizard
Hmm, dare to be different?
Samurai, Ninja, Magus, Wizard, Gunslinger, Barbarian, Cleric, Monk.
OA type game for the win?
Alchemist, Bard, Fighter, Inquisitor, Oracle, Paladin, Slayer, Witch seems adequate to me to cover a broad spectrum.
On a scale smaller than the theoretical Pathfinder 2.0 rebuild idea that I presented above, another way to look at this is to think of what 4 Class combinations make the most viable parties for an Adventure Path, although obviously the answer might not be the same for every AP. (This really has to restrict the number down to 4 or maybe 5 -- with 8 it is too easy for the party to fill all roles, with the possible exception of a version of Wrath of the Righteous where the PCs can't get Mythic ranks/powers but their enemies still can.)
^Actually, maybe scratch the above about Wrath of the Righteous -- in this thread people seem to think it's easier than average even if the party DOESN'T get Mythic.
At any rate, when you get up to 8 PCs (I actually saw this in a Shattered Star PbP that died due to losing its DM), it could actually start to become profitable to duplicate certain Classes.