PFS Legal Lead-Lined Scabbard for Viridium Weapon


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In Ultimate Equipment (p. 52) a "scabbard lined with lead" is mentioned as a way to avoid accidental injury while using a Viridium weapon. Which book has information on a PFS legal lead-lined scabbard?

I apologize to the incredibly super-duper mostest bestest intelligent person of whom I asked this question earlier this week. I did not get the answer that I wanted so I went fishing. Answering "in PFS, you're SOL" really did not make my day. Sorry.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q4v7?Leadlined-scabbard-weight

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Cubed wrote:

In Ultimate Equipment (p. 52) a "scabbard lined with lead" is mentioned as a way to avoid accidental injury while using a Viridium weapon. Which book has information on a PFS legal lead-lined scabbard?

I apologize to the incredibly super-duper mostest bestest intelligent person of whom I asked this question earlier this week. I did not get the answer that I wanted so I went fishing. Answering "in PFS, you're SOL" really did not make my day. Sorry.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q4v7?Leadlined-scabbard-weight Linkified

"Lead" is not defined anywhere as a Special Material, so there are no rules for crafting items out of lead.

The only items off the top of my head that are made of lead are firearm bullets and the inner parts of a sap.

The Fabricate Bullets spell suggests that one pound of lead costs 2gp.

Whereas from the Core Rulebook we can see that one pound of iron costs only 1sp.

And from Ultimate Equipment we can see that one pound of either gold or cold iron costs 50gp.

Also from Ultimate Equipment we find the False-Bottomed Scabbard, which weighs one pound. Unfortunately its description does not hint as to what it's made of, otherwise we might be able to reverse engineer it.

The same is true for the Combat Scabbard from the Adventurer's Armory, which also weighs one pound.

The Poisoning Sheath likewise weighs one pound, but like the others, we are once again not given a material for its construction.

And that's all I was able to find. Unfortunately, without any further information, I believe you are "out of luck". Although crafting something out of lead given the information we've discovered thus far would be easily achievable in a home game, there is no crafting in PFS.

Your best bet is to play as an Aasimar, Tiefling, Ifrit, Undine, Oread, Sylph, or Suli, as they are all immune to the effects of Viridium.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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Oh, there is also the Scabbard of Honing and Scabbard of Pain, which both weigh one pound and are constructed of leather.

The Scabbard of Keen Edges also weighs one pound, but no material is listed in its description.

The Scabbard of Stanching and the Scabbard of the Efreet are both made of leather but weigh two pounds each. The Scabbard of True Death likewise weighs two pounds but has no material listed.

A Scabbard of Vigor weighs three pounds (with no material listed).


http://www.archivesofnethys.com/

Azara Emberkin wrote:

Oh, there is also the Scabbard of Honing and Scabbard of Pain, which both weigh one pound and are constructed of leather.

The Scabbard of Keen Edges also weighs one pound, but no material is listed in its description.

The Scabbard of Stanching and the Scabbard of the Efreet are both made of leather but weigh two pounds each. The Scabbard of True Death likewise weighs two pounds but has no material listed.

A Scabbard of Vigor weighs three pounds (with no material listed).

Thank you so very much for your diligent research on this subject. This must have taken some time. I might just take the "Your best bet is to play as an Aasimar, Tiefling, Ifrit, Undine, Oread, Sylph, or Suli, as they are all immune to the effects of Viridium". Out of fear I "grandfathered" two Aasimars (yes, I did actually play them as Aasimars).

Thanks Again,

^3


there is a spell that temporarily lines stuff in lead, don't know if its PFS legal spell.
Lead Plating

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I don't see Kobolds of Golarion on the Additional Resources document.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Nefreet wrote:
I don't see Kobolds of Golarion on the Additional Resources document.

Yeah, nothing in Kobolds is PFS legal. I'm assuming it's because there's no way to play a Kobold in PFS, and they'd restrict the book to Kobolds only (like they did with Goblins of Golarion).

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

I didn't think viridium was PFS legal?

has that changed?

Grand Lodge 4/5

FLite wrote:

I didn't think viridium was PFS legal?

has that changed?

From the Additional Resources page:

Additional Resources wrote:

Ultimate Equipment:

Special Materials: All special materials, except angel skin, living steel and wyroot, are legal for play.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

I stand corrected.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Jeff Merola wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
I don't see Kobolds of Golarion on the Additional Resources document.
Yeah, nothing in Kobolds is PFS legal. I'm assuming it's because there's no way to play a Kobold in PFS, and they'd restrict the book to Kobolds only (like they did with Goblins of Golarion).

Orcs aren't legal for play, but the orc book is legal (hello tusked trait). Though this is a bit more understandable since half-orcs are legal and have access to that stuff.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Your best bet is to keep the item extradimensional. If it's ammo, then the endlessbandolier is good. Otherwise, keep it in the haversack? If it's a melee weapon you plan to use as your main weapon... not sure what extradimensional options there are. Those gloves with the snapping?

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Technically, the gloves of storing miniaturize it and store it in your palm. Not sure if that counts. They don't say anything about extra dimensional storage.

Having gone back and looked, why do you want Viridium. I mean, it is a great weapon for NPCs in that it inflicts a potentially long lasting condition and makes PCs nervous, but for a PC, the chances of it doing anything short term are next to 0.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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My Swashbuckler grabbed a masterwork, magically strengthened viridium scimitar. With Improved Critical at level 5, there's a good chance of poisoning the target with green blood oil (1 Con damage, freq 1/rd, 4 rounds). The DC is only like 13, but it increases by 2 each time I strike them again if they're already poisoned, and Swashbucklers can get quite a few strikes in as they level up.

Plus, I grew bored of reaching for an Adamantine weapon with each of my martial characters.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Huh. I'll be curious to see how that works out.

The problem I see is that it takes 2 rounds for the con poison to reduce the thing's hit points by one point per hit die. (Multiple poisons don't stack, they just extend the duration of the effect.)

It does seem a kind of cool weapon for a swashbuckler though. Maybe I will pick one up when I build my Ifrit.


FLite wrote:

Having gone back and looked, why do you want Viridium. I mean, it is a great weapon for NPCs in that it inflicts a potentially long lasting condition and makes PCs nervous, but for a PC, the chances of it doing anything short term are next to 0.

Chaotic Neutral malice cleric who wants to leave people with a parting gift if they run away.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

FLite wrote:
The problem I see is that it takes 2 rounds for the con poison to reduce the thing's hit points by one point per hit die.
Am I misremembering how stat penalties work? I was pretty sure if you started with an even numbered stat, and took 1 damage, that your modifier for that stat also dropped.
FLite wrote:
Multiple poisons don't stack, they just extend the duration of the effect.

The DC to save against the poison also increases by +2 with each additional infliction.

5/5

Nefreet wrote:
FLite wrote:
The problem I see is that it takes 2 rounds for the con poison to reduce the thing's hit points by one point per hit die.
Am I misremembering how stat penalties work? I was pretty sure if you started with an even numbered stat, and took 1 damage, that your modifier for that stat also dropped.
FLite wrote:
Multiple poisons don't stack, they just extend the duration of the effect.
The DC to save against the poison also increases by +2 with each additional infliction.

Stat damage counts up, kind of like non-lethal damage, and at every 2 points of damage you take a -1 to the relevant stat's current modifier effectively. So, for the most part, odd points of stat damage really does nothing in the scheme of things.

EDIT:

PRD wrote:
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

What Sniggevert said. Which is kind of sad since one of the few benefits of odd level stat increases would otherwise be that a single point of stat damage doesn't hurt you.

But even assuming that you got multiple hits in, the DC of the poison starts so low that almost anything worth poisoning is going to make the save.

I guess I can see where it might be nice for all those NPCs who get to 20 HP and then teleport away. With any luck they will be close enough to dead that one or two rounds after they teleport, the poison will render them unconscious, hopefully before they can tell anyone you are coming.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Ah. I was going off of THIS FAQ, which made it seem like the "-2 stat = -1 modifier" was a type of quick rule to avoid slowing down gameplay, but upon reading it again that would only seem to apply to "bonuses", not "penalties".

Grand Lodge 2/5

Sniggevert wrote:
PRD wrote:
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.

How is this in context?

This to me implies that if the damage isn't cured quick enough, after 24 hours, it's counted as permanent for calculating everything and then you're getting knocked again?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

No, only temporary and permanent bonuses are counted that way, not damage or penalties.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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One of my gunslingers (the sczarni one) keeps 1 or 2 shots of Viridium tucked away. Just in case he needs to deliver a message from Guaril.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A certain adventure had a doohickey that only activated if a death or disease effect was used on it. My gunslinger happens to keep a couple of viridium bullets in an extadimensional space. Never thought I'd actually get to use them.

-k

The Exchange 1/5

This interests me greatly. whats the point in putting it in the description but not creating the lead lined upgrade/item.

Dark Archive 4/5

I had a character I was GM'ing for tonight ask me about this in the form of a viridium dagger. To confirm, there is no lead-lined scabbard leaving the only source something like a handy haversack or other extradimensional space.

I'm pretty sure this is an oversight.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

1 person marked this as a favorite.

given how many spell effects are blocked by a lead lining, it would be nice to have a cost for lead lining a container.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Considering the number of sources/scenarios that refer to lead boxes and lead lined this or that, I've found it odd for a while that none of those are available by any means I can find.

The Exchange 1/5

Also sorry if I necroed this thread but new to pathfinder and it was relevant to my interests :). I did ponder on the lead lined other items however, is it supposed to be a mechanic to prevent pc's from discovering things to early and the like I wonder

Scarab Sages

I had a viridium weapon on a blight druid a while back. Also on a barbarian with a freakishly high Con. Neither was for PFS.

I determined it wasn't too practical. The fort Saves are too low for most opponents to fail (we were 12th level) and they are kinda iffy weapons from an alignment stance. They also don't strike me as materials that most good/lawful cities would allow, as they seem rather problematic for the populous.

I will note that you should be able to detect viridium weapons with Detect Poison or Diagnose Disease. Both of which would be blocked by a lead lined case.

As for lead lining things, I had a thread on this a while back for a Tower Shield with lead lining. Bottom line is that there are no rules. Just like buying a chair in PFS also seems to be something that is left out of the rules. Ultimately, I think it's a balance thing.

The Exchange 1/5

I lean the other way, on one hand you could have a crit which might poison the enemy (low dc) or you could roll a 1 one giving your weapon the broken condition until you spend an additional 1k gold to magically strengthened it. and the poison only deals one con damage per round which i believe gives it two saves before it has any mechanical effect.

however both of our opinions are speculation on the designers intent however I feel mine has more credence because it specifically calls out the lead lining sheath in the description.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Hmmm...

Masterwork Tool (lead lined scabbard)?

+2 circumstance bonus to [doesn't matter]

The Exchange 1/5

Interesting idea nefreet extra 50gp for a scabbard but could work :), annoyingly still not a definitive solution for pfs :(

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:

Hmmm...

Masterwork Tool (lead lined scabbard)?

+2 circumstance bonus to [doesn't matter]

Wouldn't that be a +2 circumstance bonus to Not catch leprosy?

Scarab Sages

Well, if you have any Aaasimar, Tiefling, or Ganzi boons, outsiders are immune. No need to buy an illegal scabbard for them.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Jared Thaler wrote:
given how many spell effects are blocked by a lead lining, it would be nice to have a cost for lead lining a container.

You have pinpointed the reason, why there might not be a cost for items like these, not being detectable is a pretty expensive magical effect.

Scarab Sages

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
You have pinpointed the reason, why there might not be a cost for items like these, not being detectable is a pretty expensive magical effect.

Though I've been unclear if the lead lining itself is detected as a barrier for a detection spell use. Like, Does the PC detect that her detection is blocked by "mundane" means?

Depending on the detection spell, the absence of an aura can be more suspicious than the presence of one.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I ran into that recently during an AP that had a lead-lined container for the sole purpose of hiding its contents. If such a container would stand out as NULL! when detecting magic then it wouldn't be all that desirable as a hiding place.

Scarab Sages 2/5

That happens in real life. You can block heat signatures, or x-ray scans. The lack of readings can be as telling as a reading. The absence of evidence is evidence.

There are not prices for these things for the same reason there is no price for having a device etched on your shield. It's item customization. That is typically left to the gm to decide by the devs. This of course leaves PFS players cheese in the wind. But the rules are not written with the limits of PFS in mind.

As a pfs gm, you have the ability to fill in the missing gaps in the rules. There is no particular reason any gm could not rule a price for it.

Scarab Sages 2/5

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
given how many spell effects are blocked by a lead lining, it would be nice to have a cost for lead lining a container.
You have pinpointed the reason, why there might not be a cost for items like these, not being detectable is a pretty expensive magical effect.

That logic. Extend that thought to all materials that block detection. Metal doors would cost as much as the warehouse it guards the entrance to. Wooden walls would be unaffordable except by high Nobility and high level adventurers. You could not even have clay walls. Where will the peasants live?

Cheap Mundane equipment can block detection spells. There is listed prices for such materials. But not all. It is item customization that pretty much doesn't have prices. There is no price listed for a red dyed hat either.

4/5

Nefreet wrote:
I ran into that recently during an AP that had a lead-lined container for the sole purpose of hiding its contents. If such a container would stand out as NULL! when detecting magic then it wouldn't be all that desirable as a hiding place.

It's quite desirable for against other forms of divination, such as Locate Object, where the location of the container might not be known. Additionally, it's quite useful simply to reward the players with such a container in some campaigns.

Not so hot in PFS, of course.

Scarab Sages 2/5

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
You have pinpointed the reason, why there might not be a cost for items like these, not being detectable is a pretty expensive magical effect.

Though I've been unclear if the lead lining itself is detected as a barrier for a detection spell use. Like, Does the PC detect that her detection is blocked by "mundane" means?

Depending on the detection spell, the absence of an aura can be more suspicious than the presence of one.

Something like detect magic only gives indication on things that are magical. Showing auras through materials. You wouldn't know magical dagger was in a wooden chest but you would be able to tell something with a magical aura was inside. If the chest is lead lined you would see no auras, which is the same thing you see when there are no magical auras. But of course it is left open for gm interpretation.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Lorewalker wrote:
That happens in real life. You can block heat signatures, or x-ray scans. The lack of readings can be as telling as a reading. The absence of evidence is evidence.

This is a logical fallacy.

A lack of evidence is not evidence.

Theological example: There is no evidence that GOD exists. This does not prove or disprove the existence of GOD.

Your examples are all of things with a background return, therefor an anomalous void IS evidence, not a lack of evidence.

A better example would have been a Geiger-counter would have been a better example, but a lack of spike does not count as evidence that there is a hidden radioactive item.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Tempest_Knight wrote:
A lack of evidence is not evidence.

But it's good enough reason to inspect that barrel over there that reads NULL!

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

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You are assuming it reads NULL.

When the return, as specified by the spell, is 'no magic here'.

Are you going to check the other 3k barrels in the warehouse that also read as 'no magic here'?

It is a Geiger-counter not an x-ray.

It doesn't let you see through to the magic.

It lets you sense the aura(energies) of magic items.

~

A bit more tongue-in-cheek;

<Lack of Evidence as Evidence of obfuscation>
I lack evidence that you, Nefreet, are not a chatbot, thus proving you are indeed a chatbot hiding the fact that you are a chatbot.

<Lack of Evidence as Lack of Evidence>
I lack evidence that you, Nefreet, are a chatbot, therefor I cannot prove you are a chatbot.

One is a logical fallacy, the other is a logical construct.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Tempest_Knight wrote:
You are assuming it reads NULL.

No, I'm actually against that idea.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Nefreet wrote:
Tempest_Knight wrote:
A lack of evidence is not evidence.
But it's good enough reason to inspect that barrel over there that reads NULL!

Not based on the post I responded to.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Then you should reread the posts leading up to that for context.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Tempest_Knight wrote:
Lorewalker wrote:
That happens in real life. You can block heat signatures, or x-ray scans. The lack of readings can be as telling as a reading. The absence of evidence is evidence.

This is a logical fallacy.

A lack of evidence is not evidence.

Theological example: There is no evidence that GOD exists. This does not prove or disprove the existence of GOD.

Your examples are all of things with a background return, therefor an anomalous void IS evidence, not a lack of evidence.

A better example would have been a Geiger-counter would have been a better example, but a lack of spike does not count as evidence that there is a hidden radioactive item.

Sigh.

This is physics, not debate. The citation of logical fallacy without context is, itself, a logical fallacy.

A Null is evidence. It is a zero. An undefined is a lack of evidence.

If I scan across the sky and I see a star with a dark spot in front of it, that is evidence that there is something there. That is how we find exoplanets*

However, for this to be useful, the lead lined object has to be between you and an aura that you know is there. So either:

1. One of your friends must carry an aura past the box while you watch.

2. There must be a background aura which the box obstructs or partially obstructs.

So, if you are trying to decide if a box is worth breaking into, and it registers as no magic found, have your friend put his magic ring behind it. If you do not see the ring's aura, the box is lead lined.

In this instance a lack of an aura is, in fact, evidence. Presence of an aura would also be evidence.

*Well, it used to be, it has gotten more complex since then.

The Exchange 1/5

I feel like not detecting magic or poison on a group of adventurers is cause for alarm XD or not detecting magic through the door to the wizards workshop/ study

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