Witch : flight hex... (once again)

[Skooma]

Hi everybody,

I know there have been a certain number of questions about this flight hex but to the best of my knowledge, this one has not been given an official answer yet.

We all know that feather fall requires an immediate action to be cast. And we also know that supernatural abilities require a standard action to be activated unless otherwise specified in the description of the ability.

The problem is that the flight hex says : "At 1st level, the witch can use feather fall at will...".

My GM ruled that my witch needs a standard action to activate the feather fall ability but since it becomes useless then, he also ruled that I can cast it even if I am not free-falling (this modifies the spell description).

I really think that the intention behind the rule is to activate feather fall as an immediate action, as per the spell.

Could this be faqed please?

[DrDeth]

"At will" means as whatever action you want.

[Skooma]

DrDeth wrote:

"At will" means as whatever action you want.

I am not a native speaker but "at will", to the best of my understanding means "unlimited number of times per day". Also, the french translation (which I agree is not the best reference to refer to) means "each time you want".

[Lemmy]

I'm pretty sure it works (or at very least, is intended to work) just like the spell... Immediate action when falling.

[thejeff]

DrDeth wrote:

"At will" means as whatever action you want.

Not always. Monsters with at will spell like abilities don't get to use them as immediate actions. (Or free actions, which would be implied by "whatever action you want")

Unless called out otherwise, I'd treat any at will abilities as taking the same action as the thing their based on: standard for most things based on spells, but immediate for feather fall, since that's how the spell works.

[Melkiador]

I'd say the difference is that you aren't using an ability that is "like" or "as per" feather fall. You are using feather fall.

Compare:

prd wrote:

Flight (Su): The witch grows lighter as she gains power, eventually gaining the ability to fly. At 1st level, the witch can use feather fall at will and gains a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks. At 3rd level, she can cast levitate once per day. At 5th level, she can fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments. This hex only affects the witch.

Feather fall and Levitate are using the actual spells. But the flight is an ability that is "as per" using the spell.

So, the cast of feather fall is not the supernatural ability. The supernatural ability is having the ability to cast.

[Claxon]

At will - means you can use it however many times you like, without limit. It does not mean you can choose to use it as any action type.

In absence of another use time be given, a spell like ability would default to a standard action. However, Hexes are Supernatural abilities not SLA. Still in general I think the practice is actions default to standard if no other action is mentioned.

HOWEVER! In this particular case I would say because it is feather fall it should be an immediate. Conversely after a few levels you will just cast it every few rounds as it runs out, since you can use it at will.

[Gilarius]

Melkiador is right (as far as I can tell).

The hex description states that each hex is a standard action except where the individual hex overrules that.
The basic flight hex says that it is feather fall; feather fall states it is an immediate action, ergo the basic flight hex is an immediate action.
If the GM wants to house rule all hexes as standard actions, then he/she can, but it would definitely be a house rule. And would be annoying. And I'd be looking at the rest of the hexes to find the ones that should be longer actions to abuse.

Claxon is right too: at will means as many times as you want, not as any action type.

[Mikhail]

Gilarius wrote:

(...) The hex description states that each hex is a standard action except where the individual hex overrules that.

The basic flight hex says that it is feather fall; feather fall states it is an immediate action, ergo the basic flight hex is an immediate action.
If the GM wants to house rule all hexes as standard actions, then he/she can, but it would definitely be a house rule. And would be annoying. And I'd be looking at the rest of the hexes to find the ones that should be longer actions to abuse.(...)

It also means that casting Slumber Hex is 1 round action, and suddenly not so overpowered as I was thinking it is. It even makes sense now (gasp!) :D

[Skooma]

Mikhail wrote:

Gilarius wrote:

(...) The hex description states that each hex is a standard action except where the individual hex overrules that.

The basic flight hex says that it is feather fall; feather fall states it is an immediate action, ergo the basic flight hex is an immediate action.
If the GM wants to house rule all hexes as standard actions, then he/she can, but it would definitely be a house rule. And would be annoying. And I'd be looking at the rest of the hexes to find the ones that should be longer actions to abuse.(...)

It also means that casting Slumber Hex is 1 round action, and suddenly not so overpowered as I was thinking it is. It even makes sense now (gasp!) :D

Except that the description of the flight hex and the slumber hex are not worded in a similar fashion:

- "use feather fall at will" => use the the spell (and by extension, use the casting time mentioned in the spell). I am convinced of it but not my GM! :D
- the slumber hex is a standard action to activate and then the target falls in a magical sleep as per the spell (but notice that other aspects of the spell are not preserved : area of effect (based on HD), duration...). This case is different : the witch does not use the spell "sleep", only the sleeping target is affected as per the spell...

[Melkiador]

You will have trouble finding (Su) abilities that do not use the "as per" type of wording. Very few abilities grant a cast outright.

[DrDeth]

thejeff wrote:

DrDeth wrote:

"At will" means as whatever action you want.

Not always. Monsters with at will spell like abilities don't get to use them as immediate actions. (Or free actions, which would be implied by "whatever action you want")

Unless called out otherwise, I'd treat any at will abilities as taking the same action as the thing their based on: standard for most things based on spells, but immediate for feather fall, since that's how the spell works.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that the hex acts like the Spell, which is Immediate, but you can use it whenever you want.

[Melkiador]

DrDeth wrote:

Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that the hex acts like the Spell, which is Immediate, but you can use it whenever you want.

But here the hex doesn't act as the spell. The hex grants the spell. Otherwise, it would be worded as "You can slow your fall, as per the spell".

[HiddenBoss]

As not all hexs are not use base per say like Child-Scent (i know it EX) as you have it on all the time.

I in my view this hex is giving you the feather fall at will but you are unable to use it if your in a anti magic zone as the hex turns off until you are out of there with any EX hex's still working.

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

Regardless of how you want to parse the text to get there, I suggest that the intent is for it to work like feather fall--i.e. activate as an immediate action when you fall. That's how your GM should run it, in my opinion.