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I agree that the paladin gets two Detect Evil abilites - standard action as the spell, or move action on a single target. They're used separately.
People can tell the paladin is concentrating on something, but I don't know how they'd know what, since that's really all he's doing that an outside observer can tell - concentrating.
Here's a question not mentioned in this thread before, but I've asked it before and gotten a contradictory responses. Does a paladin know if his smite fails? This actually came up the very first time I GMed Pathfinder. At the time, I didn't tell the paladin that the BBEG of that scenario was CN until after it was over. Since then, I've decided to let paladin players know whenever a smite fails, which actually happened again in a game I GMed two days ago. There's really no rules support for either option, from what I can tell.
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Is purposely provoking drinks an evil act though?
Provoking drinks isn't evil. It helps keep your local Caydenites in business, so it's definitely Chaotic.
I agree that the paladin gets two Detect Evil abilites - standard action as the spell, or move action on a single target. They're used separately.
People can tell the paladin is concentrating on something, but I don't know how they'd know what, since that's really all he's doing that an outside observer can tell - concentrating.
Here's a question not mentioned in this thread before, but I've asked it before and gotten a contradictory responses. Does a paladin know if his smite fails? This actually came up the very first time I GMed Pathfinder. At the time, I didn't tell the paladin that the BBEG of that scenario was CN until after it was over. Since then, I've decided to let paladin players know whenever a smite fails, which actually happened again in a game I GMed two days ago. There's really no rules support for either option, from what I can tell.
I'd fall into the "tell them" camp. At the very least, it makes things a little easier at the table. If someone can say "Attack roll of 21" rather than "18, or 21 if it's evil, or 20 if it's human, or 23 if it's an evil human, or 24 if it's an evil human wearing an Aspis badge on a Wednesday" that's easier for both the GM and the player.
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I usually tell people after they "test" the ability with an attack (same thing for DR if they didn't know about it before, though I don't give the exact number, just a vague estimate). I figure the character realizes that there should have been more "oomph" behind that attack, and if it isn't there it feels off.
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I usually tell people after they "test" the ability with an attack (same thing for DR if they didn't know about it before, though I don't give the exact number, just a vague estimate). I figure the character realizes that there should have been more "oomph" behind that attack, and if it isn't there it feels off.
That's reasonable, and pretty similar to how I handle DR: "Your attack doesn't seem to do as much damage as you'd expect."
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I usually tell people after they "test" the ability with an attack (same thing for DR if they didn't know about it before, though I don't give the exact number, just a vague estimate). I figure the character realizes that there should have been more "oomph" behind that attack, and if it isn't there it feels off.That's reasonable, and pretty similar to how I handle DR: "Your attack doesn't seem to do as much damage as you'd expect."
That's basically how I handle it. After all, if they can tell when their attack does less damage than it should, they should be able to tell when it does more. Otherwise the world is weird.
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so... can a character look like he is using an SLA (Detect Evil) if he isn't? Would that provoke an AOO?
Would it use a skill and if so what skill would it use? (Bluff, or Spellcraft, or UMD or what?)
What action would it be? Or could it be any?
Player: "I'm using a detect shenanigans on this guy, just to see if he's honest... So he sees me staring real hard at him... does that provoke an AOO?"
Judge: "what?"
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so... can a character look like he is using an SLA (Detect Evil) if he isn't? Would that provoke an AOO?
Would it use a skill and if so what skill would it use? (Bluff, or Spellcraft, or UMD or what?)
What action would it be? Or could it be any?
Player: "I'm using a detect shenanigans on this guy, just to see if he's honest... So he sees me staring real hard at him... does that provoke an AOO?"
Judge: "what?"
I'd call it a bluff check, and it does provoke, since you're intentionally letting your guard down the same way as if you were doing Detect Evil.
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I'd call it a bluff check, and it does provoke, since you're intentionally letting your guard down the same way as if you were doing Detect Evil.so... can a character look like he is using an SLA (Detect Evil) if he isn't? Would that provoke an AOO?
Would it use a skill and if so what skill would it use? (Bluff, or Spellcraft, or UMD or what?)
What action would it be? Or could it be any?
Player: "I'm using a detect shenanigans on this guy, just to see if he's honest... So he sees me staring real hard at him... does that provoke an AOO?"
Judge: "what?"
What kind up an action is it? A move? Or could it be a free action?
How much can a PC bluff? Can one bluff that she is doing a detect magic, or just a detect spell, or that she was just using magic?
Would it count as a lie for loosing Paladin abilities?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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From the opposite side of the question.
Playing <redacted>
"I detect evil on <redacted>."
"He radiates evil." (NPC is an evil cleric.)
"Wait, <redacted> is evil?"
"He's a politician! Of COURSE He's evil!"
*party accepts the excuse and moves on.*
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From the opposite side of the question.
Playing <redacted>
"I detect evil on <redacted>."
"He radiates evil." (NPC is an evil cleric.)
"Wait, <redacted> is evil?"
"He's a politician! Of COURSE He's evil!"
*party accepts the excuse and moves on.*
Yeah, I never understood why first level clerics radiate evil, but first level aristocrats don't. :P
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Since it has already been necro'd, has anyone's oppinions on dectect evil changed? Just curious. I can see several good points made in this thread, and was wondering if reading it or play time since it came out have changed anything.Mine has.
Upthread, I thought that observers should not be allowed to recognize that detect evil was being used, because it had no components (M, S, V, F, or DF). Now, my opinion is that observers can tell that some magic is being used by the paladin, and a Spellcraft DC 16 check is required to discern exactly which effect.
People can tell the paladin is concentrating on something, but I don't know how they'd know what, since that's really all he's doing that an outside observer can tell - concentrating.
So in light of the new FAQ, it looks like there is a little more sign than just him concentrating.
What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?
Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Because I was supporting your position and contradicting Frompers, and I wanted them both together to bring new people coming upon the thread up to date, since those two posts seemed to pretty well bracket the range of opinions.
Sorry to post on an old thread. So after reading through there seems to be a consensus that Paladins have two versions of this ability?
Like the spell which does grant an 'evil radar' and a move action version which must have a target and you have to concentrate on.
Both of these 'versions' of detect evil provoke AOO.
Is this correct so far?
Thanks!
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The spell detects the presence of an aura (which a cleric of an evil deity has), and not the actual alignment.
Smite evil works if the actual alignment is evil.
Per the way Detect Evil works, non-evil characters can explicitly give back a false positive. And thanks to various magic tricks, someone that is evil (and possesses an evil aura) can return a false negative. That's even before low HD comes into play....
Since the 1HD goblin doesn't register on Detect Evil but Smite Evil still works on it, who's still going to insist a non-evil character is subject to Smite Evil in PSFOP?
Edit: rhetorical question.. I fell for the thread necro
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Sorry to post on an old thread. So after reading through there seems to be a consensus that Paladins have two versions of this ability?
Like the spell which does grant an 'evil radar' and a move action version which must have a target and you have to concentrate on.
Both of these 'versions' of detect evil provoke AOO.
Is this correct so far?
Thanks!
Correct. Also since both are Spell like, both produce a visible manifestation.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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It's easier in low level games, not every evil thing will have 5 hd or more to set it off.I had great difficulty getting my local area to understand this part of detect evil.
Let's compare it to alcoholic beverages:
Aligned Creature = Light beer
Aligned Undead = Wine
Aligned Outsider = Distilled
HD = number of (equally sized) glasses
Even though there's some alcohol in light beer, after 4 small glasses you don't feel a thing.
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It's easier in low level games, not every evil thing will have 5 hd or more to set it off.I had great difficulty getting my local area to understand this part of detect evil.Let's compare it to alcoholic beverages:
Aligned Creature = Light beer
Aligned Undead = Wine
Aligned Outsider = DistilledHD = number of (equally sized) glasses
Even though there's some alcohol in light beer, after 4 small glasses you don't feel a thing.
That was not the hard part. They were comparing it to detect magic. IS there evil it should ping, and then next round the aura strength.
And yet their use triggers AOO's, so there must be a process involved that alerts people to the fact that something is going on. Its not a Su.
I have heard other people say similar things. I will ask you what I ask them: how would one know that the paladin is using detect evil? It is a spell-like ability. It has no verbal, somatic, or material components, nor does it require a spell focus. It is activated mentally.
A classic misunderstanding of what AOO's actually are. It's not the monster or fighter who suddenly realises "Look he's casting a spell right next to me! I swat him now!" It's the momentary dropping of defenses from casting a spell or spell-like ability.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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A classic misunderstanding of what AOO's actually are. It's not the monster or fighter who suddenly realises "Look he's casting a spell right next to me! I swat him now!" It's the momentary dropping of defenses from casting a spell or spell-like ability.And yet their use triggers AOO's, so there must be a process involved that alerts people to the fact that something is going on. Its not a Su.
I have heard other people say similar things. I will ask you what I ask them: how would one know that the paladin is using detect evil? It is a spell-like ability. It has no verbal, somatic, or material components, nor does it require a spell focus. It is activated mentally.
Go up several posts. There was a FAQ, There is a little more sign than just him concentrating.
What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?
Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details.
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Detect magic is the far more problematic spell.
That it can penetrate buildings and locked rooms is a bit strange - far more reasonable if you have to be able to actually SEE the object.
so can detect evil
"Each round, you can turn to detect evil in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it."
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Collected information on Detect Evil to follow...
FAQs
Paladin’s Detect Evil: Does a paladin need to spend a standard action to activate detect evil before spending a move action to concentrate on a single creature or item?
You get two options, a single target move action to detect evil as if detecting for three turns... and a standard action that functions exactly as the spell.
"The second thing to keep in mind is that creatures with actively evil, good, chaotic, and lawful intents register as that alignment if they have enough Hit Dice, regardless of their actual alignment. So a selfish merchant whose heart is moved by an orphan’s plight into an act of largesse would register as good at the time, and a loyal knight forced to kill an innocent child to stop a war could appear evil while she formulates and executes the deed. "
"The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it."
Some GMs rely on expensive, high-level, short-duration spells that could fail based on a d20 roll such as misdirection and nondetection, but the 1st-level bard spell undetectable alignment lasts 24 hours and works automatically. A wand containing this spell lasts for longer than a month and costs only 750 gp. Several new spells and magic items in this book also help protect against alignment detection. As always, it is important to use countermeasures that the NPC in question would reasonably and realistically use, considering the NPC’s circumstances and the cost of employing the countermeasure. Spending 15 gold pieces a day for a charge from a wand of undetectable alignment is clearly worth it for an important spy who expects to match wits with paladins who can test her alignment, but it isn’t reasonable for a random evil monster living alone in the sewers. Also, undetectable alignment fools alignment detection, but it leaves the telltale aura of undetectable alignment itself on the NPC, which could give him away just as easily if not combined with other effects to obscure the magical aura of the spell.
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(Stone mason checking code) "nope - 13 inches. Says so right here. That's so the 'detect' spells wont go all the way thru. They penetrate one foot."
Nope, its blocked by a foot - the extra inch is to compensate for the shoddy adherence these slaves take when they are digging it out..