wild shaping into younger animals


Rules Questions


The elephant is a huge animal, but if you look at animal companions there are medium ones and large ones. Could I wild shape into a medium elephant and then two levels later opt for the large elephant, and then two levels later ratchet it up to the normal sized huge elephant. The stats are already laid out for these other sized elephants, it seems that it should be ok.

It doesn't say, (as far as my limited knowledge nature tell me) that you can't take smaller types of creatures. Say I wanted to play a young version of an elephant, as that way I could fit into a 5' hallway or such.


Unfortunately, a majority of people rule that you can only turn into the stats of an animal as presented in the Bestiary, saying that we don't know the speed or other various things to use while Wildshaped.


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You cannot become a 'young' elephant. This is because 'young' is a template, and polymorph spell (wildshape says it works like beast shape, which is a polymorph spell) do not allow you to take on template.

Polymorph, Magic Section, CRB wrote:
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

If you found a species of pygmy elephants, then sure, you could do that without problems. But turning into an elephant that is smaller than usual because it is too young is not something you can do.


Assuming you have Natural Spell, you could use this on yourself, but enjoy being squishy...


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Assuming you have Natural Spell, you could use this on yourself, but enjoy being squishy...

Won't work. Polymorph effects do not change your creature type, and Pup Shape only works on animals and magical beasts.


i wouldn't think that

"cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type"

means younger animals, but more of a specific, like "I change into a known famous animal like Smokey Bear, or Moby Dick" or a zebra with pink stripes to satisfy a young girl playing for the first time

"Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type" seems to me young would not be out of the question. I'd say the RAW was more of a guideline as compared to specifics when a player is out to min/max uberize an animal with wild concepts. But that is me.

I could certainly pick an animal of the size I wanted that does the basic thing without 'creative' work. I would just think that a young elephant wouldn't be 'breaking the system'.

Liberty's Edge

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Fifo wrote:
"Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type" seems to me young would not be out of the question. I'd say the RAW was more of a guideline as compared to specifics when a player is out to min/max uberize an animal with wild concepts. But that is me.

If you don't care what the rules say why ask a rules question in the rules forum?


I do care about the rules, it's just interpretation I was after. They can't make a rule that covers every thing, no one can. The law is to define the intent, I was after the intent from which the law stems. It appears that there a lot of rules that are not totally clear with some people on both sides of the question. I was wondering if this is a 90/10 concep,t 100/0 or a 50/50.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fifo wrote:

i wouldn't think that

"cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type"

means younger animals, but more of a specific, like "I change into a known famous animal like Smokey Bear, or Moby Dick" or a zebra with pink stripes to satisfy a young girl playing for the first time

"Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type" seems to me young would not be out of the question. I'd say the RAW was more of a guideline as compared to specifics when a player is out to min/max uberize an animal with wild concepts. But that is me.

I could certainly pick an animal of the size I wanted that does the basic thing without 'creative' work. I would just think that a young elephant wouldn't be 'breaking the system'.

Polymorph, Magic Section, CRB wrote:
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

Young Template


my problam, is that you gain written buff while wild shapeing.
no way you gain bonus to dex or other stuff..

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