1.) Psionics are not core, but I think ACG is.
1a.) Psionics are not silly nor bull-hockey you big jerk!!! But really, I think most people consider them balanced and fun to play, you're DM though, you make final call. Ditto for ACG, actually.
2.) You can't really pick a sorcerer/monk out of a crowd unless they do something magical/monkish. Depends on why and how they got arrested as to how much the warden would ask/know. All depends on context.
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Don't GM over anything your not wholly familiar with, and give that as your reason if you don't have good knowledge of most the stuff from that book or psionics. otherwise just let him really.
They should be able to hide it if they weren't arrested with something where they used their magic or Ki. Like bank robbery with magic, probably gonna have precautions. so basically, depends.
1. Dreamscarred Press Psionics is great and the quality is easily on par with Paizo's best, and ACG isn't even out yet so I have no idea how you have an informed opinion on it. That said, if you don't feel comfortable with material you are well within your rights to not use it; as the DM you get to set the parameters for characters. I would consider taking a more in-depth look at the things you mentioned though at a later time and perhaps consider re-evaluating your stance. Just be polite about refusing and hear out his arguments.
2. Sorcerers would definitely be treated differently as magic the guy who can dominate minds and shoot fireballs is a massive threat. If they don't have a magical solution to shut down the magic (maybe say they have special bracelets or something that automatically drain magic into them), then you're essentially left with disfiguring them if you want to be able to truly contain them. Goodbye tongue and enjoy having your fingers broken or cut off!... I'd consider a homebrew magical solution as I'm sure your players would appreciate it more than the mundane alternative.
Monks? That's just some random guy who knows how to fist fight. I wouldn't see any particular bias there from guards unless the character causes trouble.
If they don't have a magical solution to shut down the magic (maybe say they have special bracelets or something that automatically drain magic into them)
or you know, a ball gag and a pair of locked gauntlets.
Still Silent Liberating Commands man, you can never be too cautious... or just Silent in this case.
You're the DM so you get to make the call what is/ is not legal in your game. Psionics are not Paizo published material so they certainly not core material. Advanced Classes will be but as of now they are in Beta strictly speaking. If your player is truly set on being a swashbuckling warpriest investigator then talk with him or her about WHY it's so important for them. If it is purely for mechanics then I'd say no but if there is some sort of reason that they feel their character would best fit as one of those classes maybe download the beta, familiarize yourself with the class they want and give it a bit of thought. During beta none of my friends found them truly broken (well no more than some other classes can get with the right build).
As for Monks/ Sorcerers I agree with Dominus on Monks but Sorcerers could, if high enough level, be suspiciously magical in my opinion. The way I interpret the bloodline descriptions as the sorcerer grows more powerful his bloodline manifests not only as magic but physically. If you read the capstone abilities many describe drastic physical changes. It would vary from bloodline to bloodline, and again this is just my interpretation, but I think a Sorcerer starting at 5th level might have something 'off' about them (Sharp teeth, unnatural eye color, etc). But in a prison with all kinds of races and ocnvicts they may just blend in with the rest of the baddies who knows.
Still Silent Liberating Commands man, you can never be too cautious.
I'm in realization on this, but i don't think the average sorcerer has them. Sure most players do, but i think players tend to break away from what the rest of the world does quite regularly. (sort of let it stay open as a player escape option)
at which point, if they do attempt an escape, you just cut their tongue out as said or have like a shift watch of people with prepared dispells.
Psionics is only OP if you don't know the rules, as they say. Letting people spend more power points on a power than their manifester level is what makes psionics OP, and it's a famous mistake of DMs that dislike them.
Anyway, the limits on the sorcerer won't make any sense unless they know he's a sorcerer. Unless they saw him do magic, he should be treated as any other prisoner.
Use of Dungeon Rings would probably make sense for particularly dangerous prisoners as well.
Still Silent Liberating Commands man, you can never be too cautious.I'm in realization on this, but i don't think the average sorcerer has them. Sure most players do, but i think players tend to break away from what the rest of the world does quite regularly. (sort of let it stay open as a player escape option)
at which point, if they do attempt an escape, you just cut their tongue out as said or have like a shift watch of people with prepared dispells.
In this case, the governor of Porthmos is a cheapskate. He ain't paying wizards to guard people. The captain of the guard is a blowhard Paladin, typical square-jawed type.
RE; Psionics. Yeah whatever, they aren't core material. It's 3PP. Most DMs don't allow that nonsensical BS.
Not really nonsensical BS. You can not use it if you don't want to, but the system is pretty solid, and rather popular on the boards at least. I would get used to people asking for it, if nothing else.
Honestly, I WANT to allow psionics in my games, but it keeps coming down to the fact that I understand like 25% of it all.
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No one has an issue with you not wanting to use the material, but I'd guess they do have an issue with you calling an entire body of work that you don't seem to really understand garbage by default because it's not by Paizo, a company that's core product is a 3pp derivative of Dungeons and Dragons.
Oh, also you could possibly bolt him permanently inside of a like iron full body suit with no hinges in a sitting position, and people have to feed him. It's more like he's buried under Metal than being restrained. all bolted to the floor of course.
Oh, also you could possibly bolt him permanently inside of a like iron full body suit with no hinges in a sitting position, and people have to feed him. It's more like he's buried under Metal than being restrained. all bolted to the floor of course.
I'd see that like super ultr-max, the kind of thing you get for murdering 20 guards and nearly escaping.
1. You are the DM. You have ultimate say in what is allowed in your world and what is not. In the end you will need to understand all of the material that the players bring to the table. If there is anything you don't fully understand or have the time to learn then you can simply say it doesn't exist in your world. Besides the Advance Class Guide is still going to have kinks that haven't been ironed out yet.
2. Depending on the caster the guards might force them to wear iron mittens on their hands greatly improving the chance of spell failure. Or perhaps the prison itself is in an antimagic zone. As for monks... there isn't much you can do. But depending on the prison perhaps everyone is wearing manacles or they are chained to a partner.
All the same it sounds like a fun storyline.
Oh, also you could possibly bolt him permanently inside of a like iron full body suit with no hinges in a sitting position, and people have to feed him. It's more like he's buried under Metal than being restrained. all bolted to the floor of course.I'd see that like super ultr-max, the kind of thing you get for murdering 20 guards and nearly escaping.
well, when you're forcibly imprisoning someone who could kill someone with their mind...
well, when you're forcibly imprisoning someone who could kill someone with their mind...Oh, also you could possibly bolt him permanently inside of a like iron full body suit with no hinges in a sitting position, and people have to feed him. It's more like he's buried under Metal than being restrained. all bolted to the floor of course.I'd see that like super ultr-max, the kind of thing you get for murdering 20 guards and nearly escaping.
I'd like to see the suit have wheels and another prisoner is responsible for carting him around the prison. Not because it makes sense but I think it would be funny.
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I'd like to see the suit have wheels and another prisoner is responsible for carting him around the prison. Not because it makes sense but I think it would be funny.well, when you're forcibly imprisoning someone who could kill someone with their mind...Oh, also you could possibly bolt him permanently inside of a like iron full body suit with no hinges in a sitting position, and people have to feed him. It's more like he's buried under Metal than being restrained. all bolted to the floor of course.I'd see that like super ultr-max, the kind of thing you get for murdering 20 guards and nearly escaping.
oh and it has one of those shopping cart poles so you can't leave the prison with him.
I'm a somewhat new DM, and I'll be running an internet campaign soon, where the PCs are convicts. Advanced Class Guide is not being allowed.
- One player is complaining Advanced Class Guide and psionics are part of core material. Is it better to just let this guy go or try to entertain him? My reason is pretty much that I think ACG is overpowered, and psionics is silly 3PP bull-hockey.
-How should I deal with characters such as Sorcerers or Monks? Would the NPC guards be able to tell these sorts apart from other inmates and take precautions (such as manacles, rope, etc.)?
ACG is not core, and it will not be released in full until next month so wait until then. Personally I would look at each class. I am sure the hunter is not OP. It is a fairly weak class the last time I saw it.
Psionics are not core, but not OP. However don't allow them if you don't know the rules for them, and that applies to any subsystem.
As a new GM you will have some problems due to the rule complexity of the game, and the ability to tell class A from class B will vary by class. If they saw the classes in action they might know the sorc is a spell caster, but he could also be a wizard with eschew materials. The monk could just be some guy fighting with unarmed strike.
It's a LG nation. They'd never disfigure or torture anyone. About Psionics, I disallow all 3PP stuff. The vast majority of DMs I know also do. Psionics was silly OP in 3.5, it seems that way in Pathfinder. It isn't that I am not familiar with it, I just think it's very poorly balanced... Cool idea just the same, no offense to the guys that wrote it.
Actually it was not OP. Every time I see this someone is running it incorrectly, not using the transparency rules, or allowing players to nova without consequence. It is actually weaker than magic. There are threads on this so I will leave it at that.. :)
Honestly, I WANT to allow psionics in my games, but it keeps coming down to the fact that I understand like 25% of it all.
What do you not understand about it? Feel free to PM me so we don't derail this thread.
Plus Monks can technically fall for committing non-Lawful actions...
Monks are lawful because they follow their personal code, train their body tirelessly, and seek perfection, personally. I wouldn't make him an ex-monk for trying to break put of a prison, in most cases.
This is why I think it's a good idea most of the time to remove non-paladin alignment restrictions. Again, you're DM, you can make the call.
This is not a thread about psionics. It is a thread about a prison campaign. I don't feel psionics has been legitimized in any Paizo published material about Golarion, thus I feel it has no place. My understanding is PFS feels exactly the same way, otherwise they'd allow psionics.
Let's keep the thread on topic please.
PFS can't allow psionics because Pathfinder has no rules for it, and you can only use Pathfinder official rules.
As another example supplements have been made by other 3PP's that are used in AP's for some of the monsters, but won't see the light of day in PFS because it is not official material.That was explaining how PFS works. It was not about psionics.
Now we can get back on topic since you know how PFS works now.
Basically if you don't like it, don't allow it. If the player refuses to accept your decision find a replacement.<----Me giving advice on the original topic.
Basically if you don't like it, don't allow it. If the player refuses to accept your decision find a replacement.<----Me giving advice on the original topic.
That works. Both the player and you will be much happier.
IMO it depends on the deity. He'd need a strongly chaotic action to fall, and a pattern of it at that. It's a mechanic I only use to punish "monks" that go full-on murderhobo.
the monk section has literally nothing on monks needing or being related to dieties... this is mostly teh same for RL monks too.
Also, a Lawful Evil monk could easily say if the prison couldn't hold him it had no right to try to hold him, and the Government tried to imprison something it could not contain.
The player in question is arguing that psionics are part of the world of Golarion, which is part of why I made this thread I guess. I haven't seen anything in official source material that even begins to hint at psionics. Other than possibly detect thoughts.
it's more like it's famous enough where it's deemed part of golarion in players' and GMs' minds(aka, not officially). like how wolverine never dies because of how popular he is.
The player in question is arguing that psionics are part of the world of Golarion, which is part of why I made this thread I guess. I haven't seen anything in official source material that even begins to hint at psionics. Other than possibly detect thoughts.
The player is either making things up or he has bad information. As much I would like it, there is no official psionics. Ask him for the source of the psionics rules. If he points to DSP, inform him they are a 3rd party company. Honestly I think you are better off without him.
That works. Both the player and you will be much happier.Basically if you don't like it, don't allow it. If the player refuses to accept your decision find a replacement.<----Me giving advice on the original topic.
I agree. The player should find someone that will allow it.
The player in question is arguing that psionics are part of the world of Golarion, which is part of why I made this thread I guess. I haven't seen anything in official source material that even begins to hint at psionics. Other than possibly detect thoughts.The player is either making things up or he has bad information. As much I would like it, there is no official psionics. Ask him for the source of the psionics rules. If he points to DSP, inform him they are a 3rd party company. Honestly I think you are better off without him.
I'm not terribly familiar with Golarion, but I was under the impression that certain areas alluded to psychic/psionics. Some place starting with a V? I may be completely mistaken though. As far as DSP being "core" that might have been a misunderstanding: Forum talk and Paizo comments have kinda alluded to DSP Psionics being as "core" as non-core material can be.
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Almost no DMs that I run with would even consider allowing psionics. But maybe that's just my circles.
I don't think you could even try to find a GM on this board who understands psionics who wouldn't allow it if a player wanted to use it. (edit: but iIbet one will pop up now that I said this)
though the problem with psionics is it is semi-complicated and thus can have errors pop up that lead to imbalance. Like the Summoner's Eidolon...
Popularity !== Core. Fans don't make the in-universe lore (at least in the traditional campaign setting), James Jacobs does. I'm assuming some of you guys are just trolling. DSP is most certainly 3PP.
No one has said it's core, we've been saying that dissing something for being 3PP is pretty... prejudiced I guess.
I'm not terribly familiar with Golarion, but I was under the impression that certain areas alluded to psychic/psionics. Some place starting with a V? I may be completely mistaken though. As far as DSP being "core" that might have been a misunderstanding: Forum talk and Paizo comments have kinda alluded to DSP Psionics being as "core" as non-core material can be.The player in question is arguing that psionics are part of the world of Golarion, which is part of why I made this thread I guess. I haven't seen anything in official source material that even begins to hint at psionics. Other than possibly detect thoughts.The player is either making things up or he has bad information. As much I would like it, there is no official psionics. Ask him for the source of the psionics rules. If he points to DSP, inform him they are a 3rd party company. Honestly I think you are better off without him.
Numeria has hinted at it from a flavor/story perspective, but I was saying mechanically there are no rules for it. If the rules are made I am sure that is where it will be predominant.
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Numeria has hinted at it from a flavor/story perspective, but I was saying mechanically there are no rules for it. If the rules are made I am sure that is where it will be predominant.
That's the one. My point was that it's not completely unheard of in the Golarion setting, though there are no current core rules for it. The flavor exists already though.
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This is not a thread about psionics. It is a thread about a prison campaign. I don't feel psionics has been legitimized in any Paizo published material about Golarion, thus I feel it has no place. My understanding is PFS feels exactly the same way, otherwise they'd allow psionics.
Let's keep the thread on topic please.
PFS cannot use a 3pp, however the word psionic and references to mental powers are in golarion already. If you don't want to use them because you don't wnt to fine, but the SETTING of golarion is NOT the issue
Popularity !== Core. Fans don't make the in-universe lore (at least in the traditional campaign setting), James Jacobs does. I'm assuming some of you guys are just trolling. DSP is most certainly 3PP.
If you are going to call others trolls, don't use another alias in your own thread.
As for your first post, you have in the past claimed ACG is OP and no argument anyone has shown you has made you change your mind before. And DSP psionics are more balanced than some of the core rulebook, but you don't care about that as once you think something is OP you don't listen to reason. I'm not going to call you a troll, but you should listen to reason.
Popularity !== Core. Fans don't make the in-universe lore (at least in the traditional campaign setting), James Jacobs does. I'm assuming some of you guys are just trolling. DSP is most certainly 3PP.If you are going to call others trolls, don't use another alias in your own thread.
As for your first post, you have in the past claimed ACG is OP and no argument anyone has shown you has made you change your mind before. And DSP psionics are more balanced than some of the core rulebook, but you don't care about that as once you think something is OP you don't listen to reason. I'm not going to call you a troll, but you should listen to reason.
Oh, it's that guy.
But the logical fact remains: Psionics are NOT and never have been core. They've always been 3PP as far as Paizo is concerned. Anyone that thinks otherwise can ask the creators at Gencon.
I still don't see why that matters. You're not playing PFS, your playing your own game, and psionics by most people is considered very balanced. If the players wants to do it, let him, even if his logic is flawed.
Because the DM doesn't like 'em, doesn't know 'em, and has no interest in dealing with 'em. Which is fine, but he seems to expect validation and acceptance of his entirely subjective personal opinion and house rules. Which ain't gonna happen, 'cuz we all seem to like psionics 'round here.But the logical fact remains: Psionics are NOT and never have been core. They've always been 3PP as far as Paizo is concerned. Anyone that thinks otherwise can ask the creators at Gencon.I still don't see why that matters. You're not playing PFS, your playing your own game, and psionics by most people is considered very balanced. If the players wants to do it, let him, even if his logic is flawed.
earlier he said he didn't have any knowledge problems because i brought it up as a reason to not use them, but he was like "Psionics. Yeah whatever, they aren't core material. It's 3PP. Most DMs don't allow that nonsensical BS."
Numeria has hinted at it from a flavor/story perspective, but I was saying mechanically there are no rules for it. If the rules are made I am sure that is where it will be predominant.I don't see any mention of psionics in Numeria, Land of Fallen Stars. I mean other than the detect thoughts as part of the poison condition for drinking the fluids. It's grasping at straws to say that psionics exists as part of any official lore.
There's a collective sense on these forums of "THAT guy". But the logical fact remains: Psionics are NOT and never have been core. They've always been 3PP as far as Paizo is concerned. Anyone that thinks otherwise can ask the creators at Gencon.
"That's the one. My point was that it's not completely unheard of in the Golarion setting... The flavor exists already though."
Ok, then name one adventure path with a psionic character in it. Or one country. Or even an NPC name, in any Paizo-published material. Seriously I'd be interested to see any Paizo published material that explicitly mentions psionics or even a psychic. Beyond detect thoughts, that is.
I already said MORE THAN ONCE, that is was not official yet, and there are NO rules for it. I am only saying it was hinted at, not that it has full coverage or that you should allow it. Since IF it is done paizo won't be using 3pp you should not use the power point system if you don't like it.
But to answer your question: James Jacobs(the guy who controls Golarion lore) has said that if psionics is fully implemented in any form it would be in Numeria. However because of the situation with psionics, it would be Paizo's version of psionics, not DSP's.
Vuldra is also a place they might use for it. For now it does not matter, so you can tell your player it is not in Golarion.
They have used psionics in The Dragon's Demand for a monster, but not the full rules.
Maybe that is where you player got the idea from.